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Tosh Lupoi - DC Alabama

I definitely get concerns over potential X’s and O’s (especially on offense), but Les Miles and Dabo Swinney have national championships and Ed Orgeron is winning 9 games as a movie character. Recruiting still rules all, you just have to make sure you hire the right staff for him - which is certainly another question mark. But I think this would be a hire with a ton of potential and I’d love to see it.

More than anything, I’m just glad that we appear to have some options. Would be devastating to end up with Kiffin, Helfrich, or even Jim Leavitt at this point.
 
sliderNcider said:
Everything I've seen says he is DC as title only. Saban keeps him because he is an amazing recruiter no doubt. Just not a head coach yet. Seems like a huge leap for him.
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Or Saban has spent 4 years tutoring him and thought he was ready to be a coordinator? Who knows truthfully.
 
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Saban's last coordinators haven't been great head coaches. And Lupoi is barely a coordinator
 
sliderNcider said:
Oops forgot about him. Either way not high on Lupoi as HC
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fwiw, I also question whether he's ready. Young, which can be fine. But in a situation with such a strong CEO/President in such a rock solid organization that I do wonder whether he only has to succeed within a very narrow lane as a DC. Kind of like Belichick's coordinators have often gotten HC jobs they weren't ready for and then struggled.

I'd go with Day over Lupoi, personally. But Lupoi is definitely intriguing because I know we'd recruit like crazy under him. Even if he failed, he'd stock the cupboard.
 
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skibum said:
There were a lot of questions about Tosh's recruiting violating NCAA rules last time he was in the Pac12.

As nik pointed out, very little concrete ever came of that.

You also have to consider the "sour grapes" factor: when "better" football schools lose a recruiting battle to "lesser" football schools, there are always allegations of cheating. See NU this season for exhibit "A."

1. He got "caught" doing something minor that a lot of us might actually do if we knew a struggling kid who needed some money for test prep and tutors.
2. That was a long time ago - he was younger and probably learned his lesson.
3. Even if that lesson was "don't get caught," as long as he learned it, I don't care, because
4. I want a coach that pushes the threshold on what is allowable under the rules.

Seriously, I don't want someone going over the top "the U" style, and definitely not someone selling out the safety of women and children Osborne, Briles or Paterno style, but do I give a **** if 20 years from now 30 for 30 does an episode about how our national championships in the 2020s were built on a myriad of minor technical recruiting "violations?"

**** no!

Push the damn rules as far as you can and still get away with it. As long as the only thing you hurt are the feelings and "sensibilities" of goody-two-shoe "fans" and the pride of the other football teams whose souls you crush, I really don't give a **** what "rules" you stretch.

If you're not occasionally stepping a little too far over the line, you're not pushing the line hard enough.
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Ceal Barry's head just exploded reading this
 
dio said:
Ceal Barry's head just exploded reading this
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It would be a fun meeting with RG when she found out some recruits got extra bagels at breakfast one morning:
"You will not 'self report' anything. If the NCAA calls, we will stonewall them and make them collect their own facts, which we will not provide. We will challenge any sanction they attempt to enforce. If you don't like this, you may submit your resignation."
 
skibum said:
It would be a fun meeting with RG when she found out some recruits got extra bagels at breakfast one morning:
"You will not 'self report' anything. If the NCAA calls, we will stonewall them and make them collect their own facts, which we will not provide. We will challenge any sanction they attempt to enforce. If you don't like this, you may submit your resignation."
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then, she quits, claims whistle-blower status, and sues the **** out of everyone, while making her story public. instead, we trade her to cal for a couple of bagels and a donut to be named later. problem.solved.
 
Alfred91 said:
Actually, it sounds exactly like something Saban would do.
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Yep. Alabama’s coaching staff includes 3 coordinators, 2 co-coordinators, and 2 associate head coaches. There’s only 1 position coach on the defensive side that isn’t a coordinator or an associate HC so I take titles there with a little grain of salt.

I tend to agree with a the other posters who are not totally sold on him being ready to be a HC but acknowledge it might be worth the risk given the talent he could accumulate.

Still think I prefer Aranda or Day, but I wouldn’t be upset with Tosh.
 
Lupoi was pretty loose with the recruiting rules when he was at Cal, we all hated him then, which is why he ended up in coaching pergatory for a few years. I’d be skeptical that he’s learned his lessons.
 
Liver said:
then, she quits, claims whistle-blower status, and sues the **** out of everyone, while making her story public. instead, we trade her to cal for a couple of bagels and a donut to be named later. problem.solved.
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As I understand whistle-blower laws, they only protect you if you're reporting claims of actual illegal activities.

And recruiting "violations" aren't illegal however much the ncaa rent-a-cops would like to pretend they are.
 
https://www.cbssports.com/college-f...about-being-cleared-and-a-six-week-nightmare/

An article by Feldman after the whole investigation into Lupoi was complete. His take at the end is very telling.

“When my next opportunity arises, I want to hit it full-throttle. As long as I'm in an environment where I can compete to better myself, the surrounding people and the organization I represent, I will be as happy and thankful as can be."
 
skibum said:
As I understand whistle-blower laws, they only protect you if you're reporting claims of actual illegal activities.

And recruiting "violations" aren't illegal however much the ncaa rent-a-cops would like to pretend they are.
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does this mean we can't just trade her to cal for the bagels and donut? it is the only way to be sure.
 
SINKRATZ said:
Yep. Alabama’s coaching staff includes 3 coordinators, 2 co-coordinators, and 2 associate head coaches. There’s only 1 position coach on the defensive side that isn’t a coordinator or an associate HC so I take titles there with a little grain of salt.
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Challenge!
  • There's only one DC listed. Lupoi
  • There's one co-DC listed, which is plainly a subordinate position.
  • 4 defensive coaches total and 6 offensive coaches
Source
 
skibum said:
What about evaluating someone that recruited to that football factory in Berkeley?

If someone can get top talent there, they must be a good recruiter, right?

What about recruiting to a 0-12 team?

You'd have to be good to recruit well there, right?
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I agree on the Cal recruiting. I should have done more research before my post. I can't find where he recruited for an 0-12 team though. Cal, Washington, Bama?
 
buffaholic said:
Challenge!
  • There's only one DC listed. Lupoi
  • There's one co-DC listed, which is plainly a subordinate position.
  • 4 defensive coaches total and 6 offensive coaches
Source
Click to expand...
Thanks, I can count too. Point is that in addition to having Saban oversee the whole thing, his staff is constantly stocked with very good coaches with lofty titles. Often he has multiple former P5 coaches as assistants which is amazing so someone like Tosh *might* have a lighter load to carry than a typical P5 DC because there is so much expertise and support from Saban and the rest of the staff.

The flip side is there probably isn’t a better learning environment than the one he’s in but I think it’s fair to wonder if Tosh is really running that defense or if he has the DC title because of his value as a recruiter and because he is the only member of the defensive staff who isn’t in his 1st year with the program.
 
SINKRATZ said:
Thanks, I can count too. Point is that in addition to having Saban oversee the whole thing, his staff is constantly stocked with very good coaches with lofty titles. Often he has multiple former P5 coaches as assistants which is amazing so someone like Tosh *might* have a lighter load to carry than a typical P5 DC because there is so much expertise and support from Saban and the rest of the staff.

The flip side is there probably isn’t a better learning environment than the one he’s in but I think it’s fair to wonder if Tosh is really running that defense or if he has the DC title because of his value as a recruiter and because he is the only member of the defensive staff who isn’t in his 1st year with the program.
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I think Saban could have gone out and hand picked his DC if he wanted to, but decided to promote Tosh from Co-DC to full time DC and playcaller this year. I get the questions will be there, but I don’t see how there is any real difference between Tosh and Lake in this regard.
 
buffaholic said:
Challenge!
  • There's only one DC listed. Lupoi
  • There's one co-DC listed, which is plainly a subordinate position.
  • 4 defensive coaches total and 6 offensive coaches
Source
Click to expand...
I disagree with you on points one and two. The fact that there is a guy with the title "co-DC" should be enough to let you know there is more than one DC. On point two, a lot of Alabama fans believe that Pete Golding is doing the scheming and calls on gameday.

This would be a very risky higher and I don't have a lot of faith that it would work out. As others have said, I believe Tosh can recruit with the best of them, but there is no indication that he is ready to be a head coach at a P5 school.
 
Gary Indiana said:
I disagree with you on points one and two. The fact that there is a guy with the title "co-DC" should be enough to let you know there is more than one DC. On point two, a lot of Alabama fans believe that Pete Golding is doing the scheming and calls on gameday.

This would be a very risky higher and I don't have a lot of faith that it would work out. As others have said, I believe Tosh can recruit with the best of them, but there is no indication that he is ready to be a head coach at a P5 school.
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Tons of risk, but no reason not to go through the process and interview him and form your own opinion. Also if he doesn't call plays RG may be looking to bring him on as a DC under an offensive oriented head coach.
 
Gary Indiana said:
I disagree with you on points one and two. The fact that there is a guy with the title "co-DC" should be enough to let you know there is more than one DC. On point two, a lot of Alabama fans believe that Pete Golding is doing the scheming and calls on gameday.
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I don't know those fans, and that's always such a fluff argument Indiana. The point being, there's not two co-DCs listed, there is one. Exactly like at UW.

To Sink's point, there are a lot of titles thrown out there to keep guys "moving up" and justifying salaries and/or guarantees (especially at state schools), but when MM made Chev a co-OC, it was clearly a demotion to Lindgren. Tosh's appointment wasn't like that, there was a vacancy to fill.

Saban has been keeping the DC job within the family. Saban owns that side of the ball. The last two guys are now head coaches at big jobs. He chose to promote (with both title and $$$) Tosh Lupoi as the next guy. Saban has the budget and cache to go get anyone in America. Because Saban has "his way" and is a DC guy, there should be no doubt that Saban does NOT hire some big name guy from a different system. He wants someone from within his defensive system, that is 100% up to speed on that system, who he feels can do the job. He picked Tosh.

So either he thinks a lot of Tosh or he had an empty rolodex of guys from his defensive system floating around who were available?
 
Gary Indiana said:
You think he would leave the Bama DC job to come here?? I don't see that happening.
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If he isn't the one calling plays I could see him making a move. Give him total control about $800,000 a year and maybe a move back out West would interest him. It would certainly seem like a good move if he wants to be a head coach at some point.
 
buffaholic said:
I don't know those fans, and that's always such a fluff argument Indiana. The point being, there's not two co-DCs listed, there is one. Exactly like at UW.

To Sink's point, there are a lot of titles thrown out there to keep guys "moving up" and justifying salaries and/or guarantees (especially at state schools), but when MM made Chev a co-OC, it was clearly a demotion to Lindgren. Tosh's appointment wasn't like that, there was a vacancy to fill.

Saban has been keeping the DC job within the family. Saban owns that side of the ball. The last two guys are now head coaches at big jobs. He chose to promote (with both title and $$$) Tosh Lupoi as the next guy. Saban has the budget and cache to go get anyone in America. Because Saban has "his way" and is a DC guy, there should be no doubt that Saban does NOT hire some big name guy from a different system. He wants someone from within his defensive system, that is 100% up to speed on that system, who he feels can do the job. He picked Tosh.

So either he thinks a lot of Tosh or he had an empty rolodex of guys from his defensive system floating around who were available?
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You're constructing quite a story here.

I see it as a situation where Saban brought in a guy that could help him out recruit the rest of the country, and help snag players from the West, like Tua. To keep this guy happy you have to pay him a lot. In order to pay him a lot he needs a position that justifies it.
 
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