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Utah @ Colorado—November 16th—10:00AM on Fox
- Thread starter FM-Buff
- Start date
I’m thrilled we’re in the Big XII. If there was any other conference I’d consider, it’d be the SEC, simply because we have more in common with the South than the North when it comes to sports culture. The only team I wish could join us is Nebraska; I’d love to be in the same conference as them but have no desire for the Big Ten. The Big Ten and Pac-12 just don’t align with who we are, especially with Coach Prime or the legacy Coach Mac established.
I know our school leans liberal—similar to the University of Texas at Austin—but the Big XII brings a football culture that feels like the SEC. Games mean more, and the conference values basketball and sports as a whole. In contrast, the Pac-12 often treats sports like a side note. They want to win, but only in a specific style, focusing on finesse and skill positions, whereas the trenches don’t get the same attention, almost like the Mountain West.
To me, Colorado is a school like UT Austin: strong academics, strong sports, and a unique culture, but with way better scenery and a challenging recruiting landscape for football (though great for sports like skiing). I realize Arizona and Arizona State might not have wanted to join initially since they identify more as West Coast institutions. Still, they’re more similar to Texas schools in terms of sports and culture than most other Pac-12 schools.
Utah, on the other hand, has always seen itself as a Pac-12 school and probably would’ve only left if it were for the Big Ten. It’s no surprise they’re struggling in the Big XII. Their disciplined, physical-finesse style worked well in the Pac-12 but doesn’t translate here, where the game is physical and athletic. The Big XII hits hard and doesn’t rely as much on finesse, even with spread offenses. Utah’s approach just doesn’t fit.
I also anticipated that Arizona would struggle, as they rely heavily on key NFL prospects, some of whom have left, like Coleman going to Washington, which hurt their lineup.
The Big XII feels like the right fit for us. I never saw Colorado as a West Coast school, even if CU liked the academic side of it. Sportswise, it didn’t make sense, and it hurt CU’s athletic program. CU’s culture creates its own recruiting map, which Coach Mac leveraged. However, you have to get players here first, and without a strong recruiting base, you need a coach who will go the extra mile or someone like Coach Prime, who is a recruiting draw himself.
Prime isn’t about going the extra mile externally but excels internally once players are on campus. He and his team do a fantastic job with players once they’re in the program. In contrast, Mel Tucker was known for his recruiting prowess, willing to go the extra mile. Prime has created his own brand at CU, which serves as a recruiting tool.
I believe Tucker left because he got tired of chasing three and four-star recruits, knowing that to win in big-time college football, you need top talent and dedication. He made his choices, and unfortunately, they didn’t work out. But beyond recruiting, you have to coach well too, and he didn’t quite do that here.
I know our school leans liberal—similar to the University of Texas at Austin—but the Big XII brings a football culture that feels like the SEC. Games mean more, and the conference values basketball and sports as a whole. In contrast, the Pac-12 often treats sports like a side note. They want to win, but only in a specific style, focusing on finesse and skill positions, whereas the trenches don’t get the same attention, almost like the Mountain West.
To me, Colorado is a school like UT Austin: strong academics, strong sports, and a unique culture, but with way better scenery and a challenging recruiting landscape for football (though great for sports like skiing). I realize Arizona and Arizona State might not have wanted to join initially since they identify more as West Coast institutions. Still, they’re more similar to Texas schools in terms of sports and culture than most other Pac-12 schools.
Utah, on the other hand, has always seen itself as a Pac-12 school and probably would’ve only left if it were for the Big Ten. It’s no surprise they’re struggling in the Big XII. Their disciplined, physical-finesse style worked well in the Pac-12 but doesn’t translate here, where the game is physical and athletic. The Big XII hits hard and doesn’t rely as much on finesse, even with spread offenses. Utah’s approach just doesn’t fit.
I also anticipated that Arizona would struggle, as they rely heavily on key NFL prospects, some of whom have left, like Coleman going to Washington, which hurt their lineup.
The Big XII feels like the right fit for us. I never saw Colorado as a West Coast school, even if CU liked the academic side of it. Sportswise, it didn’t make sense, and it hurt CU’s athletic program. CU’s culture creates its own recruiting map, which Coach Mac leveraged. However, you have to get players here first, and without a strong recruiting base, you need a coach who will go the extra mile or someone like Coach Prime, who is a recruiting draw himself.
Prime isn’t about going the extra mile externally but excels internally once players are on campus. He and his team do a fantastic job with players once they’re in the program. In contrast, Mel Tucker was known for his recruiting prowess, willing to go the extra mile. Prime has created his own brand at CU, which serves as a recruiting tool.
I believe Tucker left because he got tired of chasing three and four-star recruits, knowing that to win in big-time college football, you need top talent and dedication. He made his choices, and unfortunately, they didn’t work out. But beyond recruiting, you have to coach well too, and he didn’t quite do that here.
Take that back, #1Pick! You take all of that back!
If I had to guess, I believe Utah will leave the Big XII as soon as they get the chance. If the ACC decides to expand and add two more schools, Utah and West Virginia seem the most likely candidates. Utah, in particular, would probably jump at the opportunity. While West Virginia has a strong affinity for the Big XII, if they can’t persuade schools like Pitt and Louisville to leave the ACC, and the ACC finally offers them an invitation, I could see them considering a move. Utah, on the other hand, would likely leave without hesitation if they’re offered the same deal as other ACC teams.
The ACC’s recent additions of Stanford and Cal, largely driven by Notre Dame’s influence, frustrated programs like Clemson and FSU. On top of that, SMU’s self-funded entry into the ACC has further complicated matters for Clemson and FSU, making it even harder for them to leave due to the financial implications.
Had Utah been part of the mix, they likely would have pursued the ACC too, as their values and mindset align more closely with the East Coast schools. I don’t think Utah plans to stay in the Big XII long-term, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they accept an ACC offer as soon as it’s available. They may even see it as a chance to get back at FSU, which is now facing some fallout from its own decisions. Clemson, meanwhile, has gone silent on realignment talks since the season began. FSU’s reputation as a difficult partner has left them without many suitors, while Clemson remains a top prize for any conference, though they seem uninterested in joining the Big XII.
Most of these schools are banking on that P4 combination thing coming together anyway abandoning the NCAA monopoly.
The ACC’s recent additions of Stanford and Cal, largely driven by Notre Dame’s influence, frustrated programs like Clemson and FSU. On top of that, SMU’s self-funded entry into the ACC has further complicated matters for Clemson and FSU, making it even harder for them to leave due to the financial implications.
Had Utah been part of the mix, they likely would have pursued the ACC too, as their values and mindset align more closely with the East Coast schools. I don’t think Utah plans to stay in the Big XII long-term, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they accept an ACC offer as soon as it’s available. They may even see it as a chance to get back at FSU, which is now facing some fallout from its own decisions. Clemson, meanwhile, has gone silent on realignment talks since the season began. FSU’s reputation as a difficult partner has left them without many suitors, while Clemson remains a top prize for any conference, though they seem uninterested in joining the Big XII.
Most of these schools are banking on that P4 combination thing coming together anyway abandoning the NCAA monopoly.
Tucker had 90 million reasons to leave.
I don't see any of this and I spend a lot of time in Utah, tuned into KSL Sports Zone, where they talk Ute and BYU football pretty much non-stop. Utah is probably a better fit for B12 than CU. They take their football way more serious than the PAC12 did. They are more B1G style than anything and I the ACC? What?
KW's coaching tree is deep and they have always relied on a stout D, a big and athletic Offensive Line, and some key weapons as playmakers during his time. Ignoring the Urban Meyer zone-read fad, that confounded defensive coordinators for several years (thanks RichRod, later Chip Kelly, etc) - since then, they've been a hard nosed football team with super-athletic and big (mainly) Pacific Islanders up front and really good TE's, RB's and just enough key pickups at DB and WR to be a complete football team. Oh - and best special teams year in and year out anywhere.
Kyle was going thru OC's for awhile at a rate of 4 new ones in 5 years or something crazy, but still winning. All with different concepts because.... D and ST win football games.
Disciplined and physical wins everywhere. Everywhere. So I am not following you at all.
This year I'd say the playmaker talent is a bit down, the lines aren't as dominant and the QB position has been a big negative.
They got hit with no QB when their top-of-the-conference starter went down once again.
They inserted Wilson, who was not good, but also not experienced. He's been hurt for several weeks, trying to play thru it.
Last week vs BYU, they went to their 3rd option, Rose, who played better given his lack of experience. I'd expect improvement.
I think you are drawing a lot of conclusions from one down year. I expect Utah to be back and I'm certainly not going to overlook them this week. They have been improving and they will be up for CU as they were for BYU, despite all of their goals being unreachable.
CU has always been on the line between a southwestern/ new west culture and a west coast culture. In the old Big 8/12, we were the program that could best recruit California. In the Pac-12, we were the program best positioned to recruit Texas. Probably the best scenario for CU would have been a Big 12/ Pac-12 merger which brought OU/UT to the Pac-12 along with maybe TCU & KU. But that's water under the bridge. Current Big 12 with UA/ASU/Utah/BYU fits us well other than UCF/WVU/Cincy being weird outliers for us that don't make a lot of sense as conference mates.
Utah hates the Big 12 because BYU is in it and an equal. They enjoyed looking down their noses at BYU for a decade. I get it.
I agree that CU is a better fit looking eastward (SEC all day over the BIG10). CU lost all of its mojo in the PAC 12. West coast football talent and interest is diminishing anyway. Between 2015 and 2022, the California participation rate in football dropped by 18%, and was even greater in the PNW.
I agree that CU is a better fit looking eastward (SEC all day over the BIG10). CU lost all of its mojo in the PAC 12. West coast football talent and interest is diminishing anyway. Between 2015 and 2022, the California participation rate in football dropped by 18%, and was even greater in the PNW.
Yep. The entirety of Utah's antipathy to the B12 is that it makes them look like BYU's little brother.
I can look to the BIG and see teams that we match up with philosophically or can emulate academically and athletically in Washington and Wisconsin. I don't see any matches in the SEC.
Now that the SEC has UT, aTm, Mizzou and OU it seems like much more of a fit than it used to be. If we got invited along with maybe ASU, it would be really comfortable.
CU just couldn’t seem to gain footing in the Pac. Part of that, for sure, was CU’s horrible leadership, especially DiStefano and Hoffman, the last 20 years. There was no investment in athletics. Donor-ship dried up. Fans lost interest.
We never seemed to be able to establish a strong recruiting base. You MUST recruit Texas. I think our return to the Big XII, our new commitment to athletics, and our strong leadership will vault us into a new, great era in football.
We never seemed to be able to establish a strong recruiting base. You MUST recruit Texas. I think our return to the Big XII, our new commitment to athletics, and our strong leadership will vault us into a new, great era in football.
I agree with some parts you wrote like their OL, your opinion on their defense, and coach KW but I disagree with your statement that they are more Big XII than CU as well as their style of play in general.
Nik nailed it, if Texas, Texas A&M, Mizzou, Vandy, and others are staying in the SEC long term, those are our life partners.
I could see Kansas as a travel partner as well
Plus, I hate playing football in the ice cold if avoidable.
I don’t think the administration only got serious about football when they hired Coach Prime; they’ve been committed to it for a while.
The real challenge was finding a coach who could handle the unique difficulties of the job.
Even though I wasn’t always a fan, I still followed the team closely. I think the administration’s role was somewhat limited; the real issue has been the recruiting landscape. I noticed it right away, and it was surprising. I hadn’t paid much attention to Colorado high school football before, and I assumed it would be stronger since some players from Colorado have been drafted. But as I looked closer at CU’s situation, I realized the recruiting base in the region is remarkably limited.
Outside of Colorado, CU has traditionally recruited from successful programs across the country, particularly in the South. But many of the recruits they landed were players who had been passed over by blueblood programs and even some successful Power 5 teams, leading to a high bust rate. Without a solid local recruiting base, finding talent is a bit of a gamble. Even Colorado State recruits nationally and internationally, reflecting the overall lack of a strong regional football talent pool.
California, on the other hand, will always produce good football players because there are many athletes there. While football participation has declined somewhat, the most talented kids still play and are heavily recruited. It’s the casual players who are dropping out, which affects the culture more than anything else. This shift is also part of the reason we’re not seeing as many West Coast recruits under Coach Prime.
They just took a top 10 team to the wire and have a salty AF defense despite being on a 3d string QB because they whiffed on a 4 star QB recruit. All this confidence and braggadocio is dumb.
Depends on how much demise people are claiming. They went 8-5 last year (2-4 in final 6 games). Now 4-5 this year. Looks like a coaching change from the most successful HC in program history is imminent. It's a far cry from where they were in 2022.
When I say Pac-12 football, this is what I mean
1. You must stop the pass. Meaning good pass rush and good coverage in general.
2. You must slow down the run
3. This is the same 3 for the Big XII. You must protect the QB.
4. Limit the run to avoid playaction which is critical to Pac-12 football.
5. QBs are critical in this conference and are expected to do more than in other conferences. Readiness is critical as well as playmaking skills from the QB. It's a QB conference, always has when it was here.
Big XII football
1. Stop the run.
2. Slow down the pass.
3. Protect the passer
4. Be physical and play fast. This conference more than any values culture and work ethic which is why every game is a big game for a team. A lot more random variables in this conference than say the B1G or SEC where talent may reign supreme.
1. You must stop the pass. Meaning good pass rush and good coverage in general.
2. You must slow down the run
3. This is the same 3 for the Big XII. You must protect the QB.
4. Limit the run to avoid playaction which is critical to Pac-12 football.
5. QBs are critical in this conference and are expected to do more than in other conferences. Readiness is critical as well as playmaking skills from the QB. It's a QB conference, always has when it was here.
Big XII football
1. Stop the run.
2. Slow down the pass.
3. Protect the passer
4. Be physical and play fast. This conference more than any values culture and work ethic which is why every game is a big game for a team. A lot more random variables in this conference than say the B1G or SEC where talent may reign supreme.
Utah is dazed because of coaching change, league change, NIL discontentment, and BYU being back on their level. Always respected them, but have no pity for them
The AD has been seriously trying but had little support from the President and Chancellor. Donors dried up. CU got serious when the perfect storm of DiStefano retiring, Saliman becoming President and hiring Prime all came together at once. And it appears that donors have stepped up their NIL game way beyond what most of us would have ever dreamt.
If I were selling Colorado's Athletic Department, I would simply say that there are two paths
Invest and Thrive
No Investment and Die
Literally about a $500 Million value increase or decrease
Get into the P2/Top 48 and thrive with TV money and exposure
Miss out on the P2/Top 48 and strongly consider dropping Football or playing with very little audience
I would pay Prime $20 Million a year to stay and either be coach or Prime Minister of Magic or else
I will die on this hill - that UT and OU not coming was the best thing for us. If they would have come, that conference would have survived, and we would have been two-teams ****tier for the rest of forever. The fact they didn’t come allowed the conf to collapse and let us escape the event horizon and put us where we are now - Coach Sanders, top of our new conference, donor dollars inbound, high star players.
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Back to Utah. PFF has them as a better team than what we played against when we played them last year by a couple of points. They are currently a 81.6 and last year, they were a 79.2 till they beat us and became a 80.6.
How do they compare to last year via PFF, I can only go by after they beat us.
2023
294
237
Overall 80.6
Offense 74.3
61.6
45.1
66.8
89.2
68.8
Defense 78.5
74.1
81.7
72.2
75.0
ST 75.8
2024
4 - 5
203
154
Overall 81.6
Offense 72.1
48.5
73.4
66.3
75.5
77.0
Defense 82.5
76.1
49.3
69.4
82.5
ST 85.2
This year's team at this stage is rated better. The issue with this team is 3 things.
Like many Big XII teams, they struggle at tackling when trying to stop the run. Running at Barton isn't the most smart. Run at Fotu and if you get to the secondary, Gilman misses a lot to tackles.
Reid is their best blitzer. Keep an eye on him.
Rose cannot handle pressure with the front 4. We need to stop the run, likely play zone and force him to get the ball out without a blitz.
How do they compare to last year via PFF, I can only go by after they beat us.
2023
294
237
Overall 80.6
Offense 74.3
61.6
45.1
66.8
89.2
68.8
Defense 78.5
74.1
81.7
72.2
75.0
ST 75.8
2024
4 - 5
203
154
Overall 81.6
Offense 72.1
48.5
73.4
66.3
75.5
77.0
Defense 82.5
76.1
49.3
69.4
82.5
ST 85.2
This year's team at this stage is rated better. The issue with this team is 3 things.
Like many Big XII teams, they struggle at tackling when trying to stop the run. Running at Barton isn't the most smart. Run at Fotu and if you get to the secondary, Gilman misses a lot to tackles.
Reid is their best blitzer. Keep an eye on him.
Rose cannot handle pressure with the front 4. We need to stop the run, likely play zone and force him to get the ball out without a blitz.
Are we going to start every single game in Man to Man and then adjust out of it, or is Livingston going to be allowed to be creative from the jump with a zone cover scheme. This QB is very average at best, but does run the ball. Heavy dose of man beaters, RPO, QB runs, and luck is all they have, so please tell me why we play Man to start?
I have no clue. Coach Rob has mixed it up after Nebraska based on film. This is a game, you watch all 3 QBs.
The biggest thing you want to do is stop the run. Bernard is their best weapon. Like Texas Tech, this is a good pass blocking crew but like TT, A°they can be beaten inside. If you beat them inside like Chidozie and Amari did, its hard for them to adjust. They have an elite RT who's a potential 1st round pick. Best tackle we played against since NDSU LT.
This is going to be a big day for the edges, another day to showcase to the NFL what you are about
Our DL has been very consistent, our LB are now playing at a major level, but our premium players are supposed to be the Secondary, and there are cracks at times with them. Playing Man to Man is training to be a Pro corner, and that is what is attractive to all of them, but Pro QB's do not run as much as college, and using illegal picks and crossing routes just murders us. Livingston has a lot of tricks in his bag, so just want to see us start fast.
GRM
I'm a ****ty troll
I saw AD RG really wanting something to get us out of FB purgatory, but it took the new President + finding Prime for the Admin to go "all-in" for football. I felt the CU administration was sort of 1/2 in-1/2 out until that. I probably give final props to the President who really pushed it over the top. He bought into RG/Prime's vision and Saliman brought the admin along--"we are making the investment PERIOD." Jump in with 2 feet and enjoy the ride.
Before, I do think that the CU admin wanted to compete, but were unwilling to take the very huge steps to dream big. Even before MT, they did some good things with facility upgrades, Bell Can Zone, etc... IMO, in some ways the Smell Tucker experiment was a blessing of sorts, although he blew up his career taking $90M which will not be paid leaving us in the KD lurch. RG/the Admin let Midnight Mel come in and shake things up--i.e. building a larger FB admin structure, featuring FB much more, spending more to recruit, and allowing them to compete at least over all the P-5 middleweights at that time. When Midnight Smell bolted, he either took that bigger FB admin/capital with him and CU went lean with the KD approach, which really flailed but got us through Covid. The other thing that the Admin did with KD through Covid was not allowing our AD finances to become nearly as bleak as other teams--Arizona, UCLA, CAL, even USC, etc... facing a deep hole. The Admin maintained flexibility for a next move.
Only at the KD tipping point is where I feel RG had the Admin capital in finding/funding a unicorn in Prime not only giving him a good offer (not just in terms of his salary), AC's salary pool with a commitment to go "all-in" with Prime bringing his self-media team, more coaches/analysts, re-expanding the FB admin with resources to compete at the higher/highest levels, more everything, and giving Prime/RG "leash" or carte blanche as we adjust through this CFB upheaval. Also, giving Prime the flexibility to make bold changes, such as replacing so much of his staff and turning over the roster 1-1/2 times or more already. The CU Admin has allowed FB the flexibility with transfers and additional capital permitting CU FB to be competitive now with basically all of Division 1 football. We are not a Blue Blood FB school yet, since not enough wins/winning seasons, but it some ways our FB admin/commitment is there, and the Admin is coming along every step of the way. There was buy-in to the overall "vision" of being a great program as RG/Prime presented, and it has not wavered.
Some outside factors and Admin things have helped as well. Prime adjusted well with CU, CU and the community (except for certain media) have adjusted well to him. Winning early last year, started the huge Buzz around CU FB/Prime putting things on steroids--even if things are not going well, we have daily national media coverage. This invigorates donors with NIL. Prime's NFL approach resonates with transfers and recruits. Prime in place when the P-12 folds (which IMO P-12 was not a great CU fit), yields CU a Tier 1 offer/opportunity in leaving for the B-12 along with some of our PAC foes (I think this helps) into a P-4 conference where we really feel that we can be top-dog if not in year 1 (we are very close), but certainly in upcoming years. For the B-12 exposure, the conference wants CU/Prime and get the national games, even if some fans do not like the game times. That is a huge advantage that both fell in our lap and CU was in position to exploit. I get the feeling that CU's FB program, AD as a whole, and admin support is actually light years ahead of some of our peers in the B-12, which has not been the case since years before the Bohner. For once, the CU Admin is out ahead of some things, rather than perpetually playing from behind.
For what it is worth.
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