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We now take you to Miami, Florida.

FLounder said:
We could have gotten the DP in 05.. Especially after the slick rick scandal.
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Not to mention the cardinal crime we committed when we undercharged walk-ons for their meals. We were truly lucky to escape with a scholarship loss then when you compare this to the small stuff that's going on in Coral Gables and at Penn State.
 
PhillyBuff said:
really? Are you arguing that Penn State had complete institutional control of what was going on the past 14 years?
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Not sure where you're going here, Philly.

It appears that a known pedophile was permitted access to said institution's facilities while the institution's highest leadership knowingly protected the pedophile through a coverup. How involved does the institution have to be in order to be culpable in your mind?
 
Orr said:
Not sure where you're going here, Philly.

It appears that a known pedophile was permitted access to said institution's facilities while the institution's highest leadership knowingly protected the pedophile through a coverup. How involved does the institution have to be in order to be culpable in your mind?
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The big issue with PSU in terms of institutional control is that the football coach overruled his "immediate superiors" and even the president of the university in commiting the crime of failure to report and allowed a much more serious criminal activity to continue unchecked on university property and under association with the university name.

I can guarantee that when this stuff hits the civil courts the institution is going to be very culpable financially. Some of those same administrators are very likely to end up doing jail time for this. How much more culpable do you need?
 
Orr said:
Not sure where you're going here, Philly.

It appears that a known pedophile was permitted access to said institution's facilities while the institution's highest leadership knowingly protected the pedophile through a coverup. How involved does the institution have to be in order to be culpable in your mind?
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My response was to Carolina saying: that the NCAA did not have the authority to punish PSU. I was merely pointing out the fact that there is a catch-all provision called " lack of institutional control" that the NCAA woUld have jurisdiction.

So my comment was facetious by saying.... "really Carolina, PSU was in total control of their institution and therefore would not be subject to any sanctions.". What it really meant was that PSU lacked any control of their leadership and therefore allowed this to happen.

Does that clear it up for you?
 
PhillyBuff said:
My response was to Carolina saying: that the NCAA did not have the authority to punish PSU. I was merely pointing out the fact that there is a catch-all provision called " lack of institutional control" that the NCAA woUld have jurisdiction.

So my comment was facetious by saying.... "really Carolina, PSU was in total control of their institution and therefore would not be subject to any sanctions.". What it really meant was that PSU lacked any control of their leadership and therefore allowed this to happen.

Does that clear it up for you?
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Lack of institutional control refers to a school failing to comply with NCAA rules, or where a competitive advantage was gained. Neither of those occurred at PSU.
 
CarolinaBuff said:
Lack of institutional control refers to a school failing to comply with NCAA rules, or where a competitive advantage was gained. Neither of those occurred at PSU.
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There are standards of ethical conduct that they could catch PSU in
 
I don't believe the death penalty would kill PSU or UM. SMU was different. They got left behind when the SWC melded with the Big 8. Look at USC. They got hammered HARD. People thought the penalties were going to kill their program. Wrong. They will be back in the national title race shortly. It really pisses me off that programs can blatantly cheat and, pretty much, just walk away from it. USC's cheating paid off big time, IMO. It was well worth the punishment for them.
 
DBT said:
I don't believe the death penalty would kill PSU or UM. SMU was different. They got left behind when the SWC melded with the Big 8. Look at USC. They got hammered HARD. People thought the penalties were going to kill their program. Wrong. They will be back in the national title race shortly. It really pisses me off that programs can blatantly cheat and, pretty much, just walk away from it. USC's cheating paid off big time, IMO. It was well worth the punishment for them.
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SMU was a third tier school in terms of interest in a state that had a bunch of other schools to attract peoples interest. SMU had rarely had a great deal of success on the field because of being so far behind the bigger interest schools in the state.

Penn State is the most prominent school in a state that has limited competition (Pitt, Temple) and a huge and devoted following. If Penn State is given the death penalty recovery won't be instant but I would be surprised if they don't eventually return to the same level of prominence the would have held without the death penalty. They will have no trouble selling tickets and no trouble encouraging donations once this has passed.
 
CarolinaBuff said:
Lack of institutional control refers to a school failing to comply with NCAA rules, or where a competitive advantage was gained. Neither of those occurred at PSU.
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They expounded on that section to include ethical standards as well.
 
MtnBuff said:
SMU was a third tier school in terms of interest in a state that had a bunch of other schools to attract peoples interest. SMU had rarely had a great deal of success on the field because of being so far behind the bigger interest schools in the state.
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SMU was SWC conference champion in '81, '82 and co-champ in '84. One could argue that prior to the death penalty they were becoming the top college football program in Texas.
 
rodrigo said:
SMU was SWC conference champion in '81, '82 and co-champ in '84. One could argue that prior to the death penalty they were becoming the top college football program in Texas.
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Fairly short term success in the big scheme of things. More importantly even winning the conference they were never going to be more prominent in Texas that UT or aTm. Even Tech and Baylor had and have bigger followings and more resources.

My point is that SMU wasn't even close to being "the" program in Texas and was never going to be. Penn State is the program in that state and as large and faithful a following as they have recovery from the death penalty for them would be much more likely.
 
CarolinaBuff said:
Lack of institutional control refers to a school failing to comply with NCAA rules, or where a competitive advantage was gained. Neither of those occurred at PSU.
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How many recruits did they get because there was no scandal over what was being covered up?

They may not have gained a competitive advantage, but they knew they would have lost some had this not been covered up.
 
Now that the NCAA has addressed the Penn State sanctions, it can eventually get around to delivering stiffer penalties to Miami. Seriously, what is going on here? Miami deserves the harshest set of sanctions conceivable.
 
Now that the precedent has been established for sanctions in relation to violations of the law the NCAA has more room to work.

In the Miami case it is also much easier to label the violations as benefits to the players and/or recruits in terms of money, sex, drugs, etc.

Miami also has a long and sortid history of major violations which may technically be outside of the range of consideration but considering multiple incidences over time and the growing severity of the violations over time it would be reasonable to include them. The PSU situation now says that the NCAA can go outside the specific word of the rules.
 
sackman said:
The comments are very telling. While I have no love for the NCAA, these folks are acting like it's the NCAA who should be investigated. Delusional.
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Are you talking about the comments on Allbuffs or in the Miami Herald?
 
If the Death Penalty was ever deserved, this would be the flagship case. Those comments are ridiculous. "Witch hunt" for things that "go on at every school." Right.
 
Seems like we are getting the old announcement about an announcement treatment here. Sanctions are coming soon! ...... Waiting.......... Still waiting..... The NCAA sure seems to drag their collective heels when it comes to bringing down the hammer (except against Penn State)
 
Buffskier said:
Seems like we are getting the old announcement about an announcement treatment here. Sanctions are coming soon! ...... Waiting.......... Still waiting..... The NCAA sure seems to drag their collective heels when it comes to bringing down the hammer (except against Penn State)
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With PSU they had no choice. When you are talking about what happened at PSU the media was on top of it constantly. Every day that went by without some kind of action was a PR nightmare for the NCAA.

This one on the other hand has kind of slid onto the back burner nationally. They can try to pick the least damaging time to come down with the decision.
 
Yeah, it's just ridiculous that Oregon, Miami, Ohio st., USC, etc. are able to cheat and get away for it (for a little bit), then get caught, then investigated, then get punished 5-10 years after the infractions occurred. NCAA is a joke, but we already knew that.
 
per mandel 2 pm presser regarding miami enforcement review report...hammer to fall?


Edit... its to discuss the external review of enforcement and the lead on this case has just been fired... those ****ers are gonna get off scott ****ing free
 
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Looks like this fantastic ****show of an "investigation" is gonna have some bite. I bet not much, but some.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...ccuses-miami-of-lack-of-institutional-control

Miami has finally received its notice of allegations from the NCAA, a long-awaited document accuses the Hurricanes of a "lack of institutional control" within its athletic department....
A person familiar with the situation told the Associated Press that several former members of Miami coaching staffs are named in the notice of allegations, including Missouri basketball coach Frank Haith, who was with the Hurricanes from 2004-11.We deeply regret any violations, but we have suffered enough," Miami President Donna Shalala said in a statement Tuesday night.
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hmmm. I bet something significantly less than USC level sanctions.
 
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