That was a pretty stringent denial from Miller leaving little wiggle room...Did Schlabach **** up?
AllBuffs | Unofficial fan site for the University of Colorado at Boulder Athletics programs
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
Prime Time. Prime Time. Its a new era for Colorado football. Consider signing up for a club membership! For $20/year, you can get access to all the special features at Allbuffs, including club member only forums, dark mode, avatars and best of all no ads ! But seriously, please sign up so that we can pay the bills. No one earns money here, and we can use your $20 to keep this hellhole running. You can sign up for a club membership by navigating to your account in the upper right and clicking on "Account Upgrades". Make it happen!
We now take you to USC, UA, Okie Lite, Auburn, Da U, KANSAS, & NC State
- Thread starter buff4bcs1985
- Start date
Doubt he did, Miller is trying to save his ass. Idk how involved he was personally but he knew about it.
dyemeduke
Well-Known Member
1) Fair - I think there's a very strong argument that higher education often is a farce, or at the least needs to be altered.
2) (just deleted retort to you, because it ended up being all semantics....I'll conceded the term business decision, but no, I don't like preying adults swaying kids with money, which brings your point in 4 - antiquated thoughts).
3) The NFL and NBA don't NEED to do anything, but that's bull**** they're not getting free labor. A huge chunk of their scouting and development is done for them. From a position of how education, including higher, should be more paramount of an institution, and college sports mocks it, to make things work those leagues should do something. Nothing legally obligates them, but the obligation is more societal.
4) Absolutely there is a dilemma. College sports isn't a singular entity that all of the sudden one day decided to make huge gobs of money. There was an ideal of kids earning a free education via their physical talents. Their is then the problem of regulating, hence the NCAA, to prevent people taking advantage of kids and kids not doing the right things. And slowly over time (although maybe exponentially since ...perhaps the 80s?) with the success of sports, money got bigger and bigger, and the ideal has become a facade. It's an antiquated ideal if you don't believe in it, but just because it's not practiced anymore at all, doesn't mean it's not worthwhile. Many major college athletes are semi-professional, but not all. They all should be allowed to be fully professional, earning more and in the open. This can be done under minor leagues. Why tie schools into it all? When education is tied with it, then there's a dilemma.
3) I just have to disagree. When a law firm goes to a moot court competition, when Apple attends a student science fair, are they receiving free labor? No. The perspective employees are learning their craft in hopes of making it to the next level. Just have to agree to disagree. The reason more kids don't go over seas to play basketball is because there is tremendous value building your brand for one year in the NCAA. You are simply discounting this.
4) The reason minor league type replacements for College Football and Basketball won't work is because we, as fans, have no emotional attachment to said teams. I still get fired up when I see Ralphie run, or when I hear the fight song. You can't replace the pageantry or emotion of rooting for your college.
ahoelsken
Well-Known Member
I'd recommend listening to the Greg Hansen interview-Even with his retraction on twitter yesterday, he's probably more right than wrong. I think Schlabach might have gotten the name of the prospect in question wrong (which would make sense given the fact that Ayton was cleared to play early Saturday after this report came out), but Sean Miller is a total control freak. How can he not know what Book Richardson was up to? He's the guy who didn't give Richardson a raise for "not recruiting well enough".
Sean Miller says he has never knowingly done anything to break NCAA rules. So do they have wire taps of Miller discussing payment of $100k to Ayton or not? I feel like this is pretty black and white with little possibility for distorting facts.
seattlebuff
Well-Known Member
I think its becoming pretty clear that ESPN ****ed this up big time. Schlabach never heard the tapes. And I was shocked that Bilas, Vitale and all these other talking heads just piled on right away. Miller's vehement denial left him no leg to stand on if actual evidence of that phone call came to light. If he actually did it, there would have been way more nuance and legalese in his denials. I'd love to see his weasel ass get busted and that program to crater ... but I believe him.
fify.
Gary Parish and Matt Norlander had a great discussion about this on their podcast yesterday. First off, the guy on the wire has no connection to Ayton. So that part never made sense. Secondly, if you ask any coach, most of them will smile along with guys who try to get paid and then walk away (some walk away, some walk away to get someone else to handle it so the coach stays clean). Parish talked about an interview he had with a coach where he'll be on calls with handlers who will make mention of payments and the coach won't shoot them down on the call - there's no upside. You don't want to burn that bridge. So they'll say something along the lines of "Hey man, yeah, I'll look into that and get back to you." Then they never do.
dyemeduke
Well-Known Member
3) Fair - agree to disagree. Your example is a good one, but to me, this goes back to the moral dilemma of college and athletics, which again, agree to disagree.
4) Yup...agree that college sports is quite amazing... .... ...and a big reason why I hate to ponder if I need to stop following it until things change. Agree that the pageantry and personal pull of rooting for your school cannot be replaced with minor leagues.
If college sports is just minor leagues, then I no longer care about it. The people who want to pay players and treat it like the minor leagues are the people who already see it like that, are not fans, and focus all their attention on the pro league. They're the last people we should be listening to.
dyemeduke
Well-Known Member
?! Come on man...these statements are quite dramatic. It reminds me of two extreme comments told to me shortly after the last presidential election. "If you didn't vote for Trump, you don't love this country!" and not verbatim, but, "People that don't live in the cities don't know what's going on and shouldn't be allowed to vote."
All those former players shouldn't be listened to, because they're not fans?
No, I don't see players as fans. At least not in the same way. It's a completely different perspective. And having some friends who are former college athletes who played professionally, it's usually very telling if at the end of their career they choose to go into pro broadcasting instead of college broadcasting. Besides, most of what I'm hearing from the pros is that college sports is dirty and a complete hypocrisy. They don't seem to want to clean it up. They don't seem to want college sports to have much to do with college.
Who initially reported the wire tap story and the details as they relate specifically to Miller? That person should probably be fired immediately, and I wouldn’t even hesitate to go as far as face some kind of legal backlash.
dyemeduke
Well-Known Member
I'm surprised man...I think that's short-sighted of you. The former college athletes I know are still fans, but their experiences have definitely shifted their perspective from the common fan. This difference in viewpoints doesn't make one more of a fan than the other. Perhaps your friends are more jaded than mine are. I would hope that the ones that are even more jaded could help enlighten people on what is so wrong about the system, and ways to fix it. If it means drastic upheaval, so be it imo. Ever since the UNC scandal, my enthusiasm for college sports has been shaken, and MSU and the FBI investigation have further made me critically think about college athletics. Do I want to see it fixed, absolutely, but what if the issues are so visceral that the solution is separating athletics from college? It may be an armageddon scenario that likely will not happen, and honestly doesn't seem fair to aspiring children with athletic talents that aren't necessarily professional level But I think we as a society should be open to all options, in spite of our personal interests, for the betterment of education. (yes, that brings up a whole slew of questions, such as what exactly is the betterment of education, is higher education a farce, what exactly is best for society, etc... ....so instead of trying to answer all the questions out of Pandora's Box....I'll just leave it at that)
dyemeduke
Well-Known Member
ESPN's Mark Schlabach
So the reporting got ****ed up, I still don't doubt he knew.
I find it telling that when the Miller news initially broke he chose to sideline himself from the team and went into bunker mode. It was only after the he received whispers that the tape might not exist that he decided to go on this crusade to save his name.
Horrible journalism by ESPN, btw.
Horrible journalism by ESPN, btw.
FIFY
And their recruiting class has fallen apart
You have it backwards. The school put him in bunker mode. He didn’t have a choice.
I’m not saying Miller is clean, but ESPN’s report is undoubtedly wrong. Ayton is going to get a sweet paycheck from the World Wide Leader.
Hoops Fan
Well-Known Member
[QUOTE="I’m not saying Miller is clean, but ESPN’s report is undoubtedly wrong. Ayton is going to get a sweet paycheck from the World Wide Leader.[/QUOTE]
And if Miller comes through unscathed in the investigation, he is has a strong case for $$$ damages from ESPN and he likely gets a pass, on some level at least, of future scrutiny
And if Miller comes through unscathed in the investigation, he is has a strong case for $$$ damages from ESPN and he likely gets a pass, on some level at least, of future scrutiny
What does Miller have to lose by vehemently denying wrongdoing and standing his ground.
If he admits to cheating, even some cheating in this case his career as a top level college coach is done, he is fired for cause, and his career is basically over.
Stand up and weather the storm and he gets to continue and likely more resistant to accusations then before.
The real issue in all this though isn't the NCAA. The only real question is does the FBI have the evidence to charge him and potentially try him in court. If they do then he is done, if not then he skates because the NCAA isn't going to do anything.
cu62nu36
fascist tool
I wonder what the timeline will be with this story. How awesome this would be to have AZ advance to the final 4 or championship game only to have it all traumatically shattered due to the leak of an FBI wiretap proving Miller guilty.
I don't think the blue hairs could taunt any longer with chants of N I T N I T as we walk through the MGM Grand during P12 tourney time. A typical AZ basketball fan is essentially a hybrid taking the worst traits from both a cornholer and a gayhawk.
I don't think the blue hairs could taunt any longer with chants of N I T N I T as we walk through the MGM Grand during P12 tourney time. A typical AZ basketball fan is essentially a hybrid taking the worst traits from both a cornholer and a gayhawk.
Kind of interesting article on the fortunes of the family of Marvin Bagley III.
http://www.oregonlive.com/business/i...alty_game.html
"Marvin Bagley Jr. and his wife filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy in April 2008, during the Great Recession, listing their combined annual income at just over $44,000. Property records indicate the Bagley home was sold in 2011 at a trustee's sale -- typically a sign of a foreclosure.
Four years later, shortly after Nike's sponsorship of the team became public, they left their working-class neighborhood in Phoenix for Southern California. In a tax filing, the Bagleys listed a home address in a gated subdivision in Northridge called Porter Ranch. Similarly sized homes in the vicinity typically sell for $750,000 to $1.5 million, said Jose Contreras, a Coldwell Banker real estate broker active in the area. Rents in the neighborhood range from $2,500 to $7,500 a month.
Neither the Bagleys nor Nike would offer any details about the team sponsorship or the family's personal finances. Contacted via telephone and through the Duke University sports information department, the Bagleys "respectfully declined" to comment."
http://www.oregonlive.com/business/i...alty_game.html
"Marvin Bagley Jr. and his wife filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy in April 2008, during the Great Recession, listing their combined annual income at just over $44,000. Property records indicate the Bagley home was sold in 2011 at a trustee's sale -- typically a sign of a foreclosure.
Four years later, shortly after Nike's sponsorship of the team became public, they left their working-class neighborhood in Phoenix for Southern California. In a tax filing, the Bagleys listed a home address in a gated subdivision in Northridge called Porter Ranch. Similarly sized homes in the vicinity typically sell for $750,000 to $1.5 million, said Jose Contreras, a Coldwell Banker real estate broker active in the area. Rents in the neighborhood range from $2,500 to $7,500 a month.
Neither the Bagleys nor Nike would offer any details about the team sponsorship or the family's personal finances. Contacted via telephone and through the Duke University sports information department, the Bagleys "respectfully declined" to comment."
I would guess they will "respectfully decline" to comment until a judge tells them "Answer the question."