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Buffnik said:
Do you know who are Director of Athletics even is?

He was recruiting coordinator as a new graduate at Illinois, spending about 5 years there doing that. McCartney got hired here from Michigan as a reputation as an ace recruiter and hired RG away from a former rival to take the same job at CU. Then, DiNardo took the HC job at Vanderbilt, they hied him away to do it for them there (before he got promoted to Associate AD).

In short, RG knows how the game is played and how to play it the right way within what's standard practice among our peers which doesn't get you into trouble.
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I know and agree with this. RG is not going to be an obstacle to any legitimate recruiting efforts we make. This is part of why I don't buy the excuse that "you can't recruit at a high level at Colorado."

What I am referring to is the kind of recruiting efforts that go well outside the rules, the things place winning above the mission of the university.

RG is our AD and his expectations for success are high as they should be. I do know though that at the levels above RG and with the various constituencies in the university there is a line that certain other schools live well past that CU isn't willing to cross.
 
MtnBuff said:
I know and agree with this. RG is not going to be an obstacle to any legitimate recruiting efforts we make. This is part of why I don't buy the excuse that "you can't recruit at a high level at Colorado."

What I am referring to is the kind of recruiting efforts that go well outside the rules, the things place winning above the mission of the university.

RG is our AD and his expectations for success are high as they should be. I do know though that at the levels above RG and with the various constituencies in the university there is a line that certain other schools live well past that CU isn't willing to cross.
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CU should not try to go against its DNA by trying to create rogue programs for athletics that are apart from the university and think it's crazy that the university would act like the players are there to be college students. We're not going to be Miami of the 80s and 90s and should not try to be that.
 
Buffnik said:
CU should not try to go against its DNA by trying to create rogue programs for athletics that are apart from the university and think it's crazy that the university would act like the players are there to be college students. We're not going to be Miami of the 80s and 90s and should not try to be that.
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That is where I am at.
We can find excellence without sacrificing who CU is. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't admit some athletes who wouldn't get in academically otherwise, that doesn't mean that we should be surprised when some athletes place their sport above school and major in eligibility.

It does mean that we don't get involved in paying shady third party "agents" or providing athletes with credit for "classes" that exist only on their transcripts. It does mean that we expect student athletes to conduct themselves within the same rules and behavior expected of other students instead of being protected by the athletic department for conduct that would put a regular student in the criminal justice system or at least in the university disciplinary system.

If the choice is to be Arizona with players who are bought and sold or have a team that competes like Tad's teams do with legitimate student athletes I'll take a few less wins and keep the dignity of the university.
 
MtnBuff said:
That is where I am at.
We can find excellence without sacrificing who CU is. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't admit some athletes who wouldn't get in academically otherwise, that doesn't mean that we should be surprised when some athletes place their sport above school and major in eligibility.

It does mean that we don't get involved in paying shady third party "agents" or providing athletes with credit for "classes" that exist only on their transcripts. It does mean that we expect student athletes to conduct themselves within the same rules and behavior expected of other students instead of being protected by the athletic department for conduct that would put a regular student in the criminal justice system or at least in the university disciplinary system.

If the choice is to be Arizona with players who are bought and sold or have a team that competes like Tad's teams do with legitimate student athletes I'll take a few less wins and keep the dignity of the university.
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Arizona is not a rogue program in college basketball.
 
MtnBuff said:
With all we have seen surrounding guys like Ayton I don't see how they can be considered close to clean.

As a reminder http://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...dre-ayton-signing-according-fbi-investigation

It's hard for Miller to claim he didn't know what was going on in his program.

Certainly other schools have longer and more extensive histories of blatant cheating but the the money flowed in the desert.
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I didn't say they were clean. What I'm saying is that if Arizona is the standard for a dirty program that CU shouldn't emulate then anyone who agrees with you should never complain about CU's basketball recruiting results.
 
Buffnik said:
I didn't say they were clean. What I'm saying is that if Arizona is the standard for a dirty program that CU shouldn't emulate then anyone who agrees with you should never complain about CU's basketball recruiting results.
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That's fair. The question is in order to compete on a high level in college basketball do you have to cheat? If so is it worth competing on that high a level?

I don't want CU moving 5 and 6 figure payments around in order to get kids to play basketball in Boulder. If that means we end up in the NIT sometimes instead of the NCAA tourney I'm okay with it.

Still want us in the tourney regularly but willing to accept good and honest instead of elite and dirty.
 
MtnBuff said:
That's fair. The question is in order to compete on a high level in college basketball do you have to cheat? If so is it worth competing on that high a level?

I don't want CU moving 5 and 6 figure payments around in order to get kids to play basketball in Boulder. If that means we end up in the NIT sometimes instead of the NCAA tourney I'm okay with it.

Still want us in the tourney regularly but willing to accept good and honest instead of elite and dirty.
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As was made clear in the court filings and depositions, even Creighton is offering 5 and 6 figure payments to get recruits. The way this game works is that you probably have to make a payment to get a visit from a guy who is in high demand. And that buys you a seat at the table for the real bidding. If your program or coach is a marquee property for a sneaker brand, they'll take care of some or all of this.
 
Buffnik said:
As was made clear in the court filings and depositions, even Creighton is offering 5 and 6 figure payments to get recruits. The way this game works is that you probably have to make a payment to get a visit from a guy who is in high demand. And that buys you a seat at the table for the real bidding. If your program or coach is a marquee property for a sneaker brand, they'll take care of some or all of this.
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I understand, I will also pass on it.

That shouldn't be who CU is.
 
Buffnik said:
Then I better never see you complain about Tad's results at CU. At a program with CU's challenges for basketball and those restrictions placed on his recruiting, he has done better than we could reasonably hope for.
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I have always been a big supporter of Tad and his program. He has done better over a period of time than any other CU coach in my long memory.

My only complaints about Tad's teams have revolved around the tendency to have ugly stretches in games when they can't seem to find a way to score and their offense goes out the window.

I was truly hoping that this particular scandal involving many programs and the federal authorities would prompt a real change in the corruption in college basketball but so far it doesn't look like that will happen.
 
Buffnik said:
Then I better never see you complain about Tad's results at CU. At a program with CU's challenges for basketball and those restrictions placed on his recruiting, he has done better than we could reasonably hope for.
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I have followed CU men's basketball since the 1975-76 season. One of my roommates dated a player on that team. As far as I am concerned, Tad's results have been far better than anybody since that time. The 75-76 team wasn't all that good. There have been some above average teams, but, as a program, I think Tad has had better results than those who preceded him.

I've been through the days of Sox Walseth (at the end of his career}, Bill Blair, Joe Harrington, Tom Miller, Joe Harrington, Ricardo Patton and Jeff Bzdelik. Patton is the only one I would discuss as up there with Tad.
 
Buffnik said:
Arizona is not a rogue program in college basketball.
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I know some of you have laughed at this, but @Buffnik is correct. Arizona is a very typical top 25 program in college basketball and the level of cheating is exactly what it takes to be that type of program consistently. We 'knew' this before the FBI investigations and trials and now its all out in the open. Dirty is normal in college hoops.
 
At Oregon?
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Translation: "What am I gonna do? Put pretty much every D1 program under sanctions? Hopefully if I ignore it you'll all forget this ever happened."
 
Those violations appear to be really minor compared to what I was hoping.....err......expecting.
 
DBT said:
My impression of the NCAA is that they won’t touch the “Blue Bloods” but, instead, will look for a patsy to make an example of.
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I can see the story now: "At the conclusion of the NCAA Men's Basketball investigation, it is clear that the integrity of the student-athlete has been compromised. It has been compromised by the payments to players through proxies, often shoe companies. This was done with the knowledge, and sometimes complicity of the coaching staffs. This allegedly occurred at Kansas, NC State, Oklahoma State, Auburn, Arizona and USC. Accordingly, Stetson University, Chapman University and Davidson College will be severely penalized with scholarship reductions to preserve the integrity of the student-athlete."
 
leftybuff said:
I can see the story now: "At the conclusion of the NCAA Men's Basketball investigation, it is clear that the integrity of the student-athlete has been compromised. It has been compromised by the payments to players through proxies, often shoe companies. This was done with the knowledge, and sometimes complicity of the coaching staffs. This allegedly occurred at Kansas, NC State, Oklahoma State, Auburn, Arizona and USC. Accordingly, Stetson University, Chapman University and Davidson College will be severely penalized with scholarship reductions to preserve the integrity of the student-athlete."
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Pretty much sums it up.

Kudos to our resident ghost writer.
 
buffgal said:
I have followed CU men's basketball since the 1975-76 season. One of my roommates dated a player on that team. As far as I am concerned, Tad's results have been far better than anybody since that time. The 75-76 team wasn't all that good. There have been some above average teams, but, as a program, I think Tad has had better results than those who preceded him.

I've been through the days of Sox Walseth (at the end of his career}, Bill Blair, Joe Harrington, Tom Miller, Joe Harrington, Ricardo Patton and Jeff Bzdelik. Patton is the only one I would discuss as up there with Tad.
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Dont forget Tom Apke. Tempting though it may be.
 
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