Which Pac-12 HC will be the first fired in 2017?

[Bufffan68]

Of those who deserve to be fired...an argument could be made for Mora, TG and RR. I look at UCLA and yeah they can recruit, but is there a bigger group of underachievers than that squad?

 

[8Jah]

I agree Helton has the toughest job, but now that he has given up his MLB gig, I think he'll do alright....

Freudian slip. One of my favorite players.

 

[8Jah]

Do we really know enough about Helton to call him a great coach?

With Graham, I think it more a question of whether he can sustain success at one place.

Depends on what 'great' means I suppose. I've seen enough to like him. SC wants iconic coach like Saban...don't know if Helton survives that environment.

How much of Grahams wins came from intel gathered by spying? He hasn't had an Oline and D relies on gimmicky blitzing. Gimmicks seemed to stop working last year.

 

[Duff Man]

Depends on what 'great' means I suppose. I've seen enough to like him. SC wants iconic coach like Saban...don't know if Helton survives that environment.

How much of Grahams wins came from intel gathered by spying? He hasn't had an Oline and D relies on gimmicky blitzing. Gimmicks seemed to stop working last year.

I think a bare minimum baseline for greatness is a conference championship.

I was more referring to Graham's track record as a head coach. Some clear success, but his reputation as a job hopper is not manufactured.

 

[4DemBuffs]

You can criticize Mora, Graham, and Rodriguez for a lot of things, but I am not sure things are objectively worse since they took over at their respective schools.

In the case of Mora, I would say that assertion is quite faulty. In the case of Rodriguez, he did not walk into a good situation. Has he made them better? I think a little bit, but it also goes back to the question of who can they actually get if they fire him. I do not think it is a desirable job. Graham seems to be a typical ASU coach. Wins some games early, but basically zero threat to win a championship. Koetter and Erickson were mediocre too.

You are going to have to explain this a bit more on Mora. I'm not sure what you a arguing? That's on me. I'm slow.

I see UCLA as the most under achieving program in the nation and I don't think it's close with the second. They have everything to sell and are in an incredible recruiting ground. Yet, most years they are not even runners up to the division crown. If I remember correctly.

Mora is nothing more than a place holder in their remarkable span of hiring average coaches. IMO. And they will do it again.

For the record, I voted ASU. UCLA should be the knee jerk reaction but I just don't think they care.

I really want USC vs UCLA to matter nationality and be a huge game. Not gonna happen as long as Mora is at UCLA. They need to make a real commitment.

 

[8Jah]

I think a bare minimum baseline for greatness is a conference championship.

I was more referring to Graham's track record as a head coach. Some clear success, but his reputation as a job hopper is not manufactured.

Helton could give them conference title. Maybe even this year.

 

[Duff Man]

You are going to have to explain this a bit more on Mora. I'm not sure what you a arguing? That's on me. I'm slow.

I see UCLA as the most under achieving program in the nation and I don't think it's close with the second. They have everything to sell and are in an incredible recruiting ground. Yet, most years they are not even runners up to the division crown. If I remember correctly.

Mora is nothing more than a place holder in their remarkable span of hiring average coaches. IMO. And they will do it again.

For the record, I voted ASU. UCLA should be the knee jerk reaction but I just don't think they care.

I really want USC vs UCLA to matter nationality and be a huge game. Not gonna happen as long as Mora is at UCLA. They need to make a real commitment.

He has been better than Neuheisel by just about any measure. Holic asserted UCLA is in worse shape than when he took over.

 

[Duff Man]

Helton could give them conference title. Maybe even this year.

And that would go a long way in proving him to be a great coach. One great season is not enough.

 

[4DemBuffs]

He has been better than Neuheisel by just about any measure. Holic asserted UCLA is in worse shape than when he took over.

Not a high bar to set but I do now understand what you were arguing. Thanks!

 

[Buffnik]

And that would go a long way in proving him to be a great coach. One great season is not enough.

I truly believe it's a make or break season for Helton. Even going 9-3 would put him on the hot seat. Wouldn't get him fired, but would make 2018 do or die. 8-4 or worse when Troy has conference championship and playoff expectations? Firing him in that scenario wouldn't be close to the craziest thing USC has ever done.

 

[buffaholic]

He has been better than Neuheisel by just about any measure. Holic asserted UCLA is in worse shape than when he took over.

Not what I said. Never said they were better under Neuheisel.

Moras teams in PAC12:
6-3
6-3
6-3
5-4
2-7

He is not building. Thats not a positive trajectory.

 

[buffaholic]

I'll be clearer, Mora, Graham and RichRod all had success early that is fading. Trajectory is important.

I think this is the year we also find out about Stanford. Is it slipping?
I don't think so, but there's a little doubt.

Helton has more to prove for sure, but how they improved throughout showed something we don't see from Mora teams.

 

[Duff Man]

So what if Mora rebounds to the 6-3 range this season? Is he suddenly a good coach? Somehow I doubt that will be the prevailing opinion around here. Suddenly David Shaw is in the line of fire. No one is safe.

I guess MacIntyre better not take too much of a step back this season.

 

[buffaholic]

If Shaw's teams slip a little each year, where are they in 10?

1 year is not a trend. If Mora gets them to 6-3, he'd get more time. If that's his ceiling, don't you think they should aspire for higher goals?

 

[Duff Man]

Shaw goes 10-3 in a down year and suddenly there are legitimate questions? Crazy standard.

I suppose they can aim higher than 6-3, but you act like that is ****ty or something.

Like I said, I hope MacIntyre meets your high standards this season.

 

[sackman]

My issue with Mora is with the way he has thugged out UCLA. Every year that game is an unwatchable penalty fest. No reason to expect this year will be any different.

 

[Buffnik]

The criticism that I believe is most legit with Mora is that he hasn't been able to turn all that talent into a high powered offense. Not even a reliable offense. Rosen's going to have his 3rd QB coach in his 3 years and Mora has changed the offensive system/ coordinator (I think) four times now in the short time he's been there.

 

[8Jah]

I think Mora relies too much on the rating services to help identify recruits. Bet that's why his recruiting rankings look better than they really are. He looks for ready made guys and has the magnetism to land them. Like an NFL coach, his guys are as good as they choose to be, or there is always another 4star recruit comming in.

IMHO he is the opposite of MM, who is a careful talent evaluator and talent developer.

 

[onealcd]

Is UCLA switching back to a spread offense this year or staying pro style?

 

[MtnBuff]

My issue with Mora is with the way he has thugged out UCLA. Every year that game is an unwatchable penalty fest. No reason to expect this year will be any different.

The penalties are an indication of a lack of discipline on the field, which often indicates the same off the field. Teams that lack discipline are the ones who end up with those one or two explainable losses every year that keep them from reaching the top. This has been a problem for UCLA more times than not for decades it seems.

 

[Duff Man]

The criticism that I believe is most legit with Mora is that he hasn't been able to turn all that talent into a high powered offense. Not even a reliable offense. Rosen's going to have his 3rd QB coach in his 3 years and Mora has changed the offensive system/ coordinator (I think) four times now in the short time he's been there.

More succintly, the inability to develop the OL has been the glaring issue.

 

[goalline]

I voted Mora. If he is fired, I think it happens within the first four games. If he makes to the end of the season, he'll be back.

 

[BuffLuke80]

I would go with Mora too really. He does less with more than anybody else imho.

 

[Buffnik]

More succintly, the inability to develop the OL has been the glaring issue.

Klemm was an ace recruiter (whether or not his methods are approved of by the NCAA). His on-field coaching and his blocking schemes were sub-par. Couple that with constant changes to coordinator schemes and it's a disaster. Takes a great OL coach to continually switch that stuff.