Who would you hire and why?

[Walter White]

What if he lied about his mistress' tattoo?

His mistress' tatoo of a red vest?

 

[sackman]

This is my opinion, but his personal integrity is deal killer. A dude who goes out of his way to cheat on his wife is a guy I don't want to be around. I could understand a one time lapse (sort of), but if you're not loyal to your own family, you are garbage. I put that over winning, but again, that's my view.

JT's transgressions are lesser in my book, but I probably wouldn't want him either. Plus, I don't like his "field position" style of football, even if it is effective.

This is obviously where you and I have a difference of opinion. He's a football coach, not a life mentor. I'm seriously not interested in his personal life. I couldn't care less. Until it has an impact on his ability to win football games, it doesn't make a damn bit of difference to me.

 

[manhattanbuff]

Geez you are just not getting it. I did not calculate the average salary for the whole coaching staff, just the head coaches and my frame, for head coaches alone, would fall right in the middle. You argued that we typically pay middle of the pack, which supported my argument. If you calculate the average salary for the whole staff, and it matches up with your numbers I'd admit I'm wrong. We see with this staff that we pay the assistants well, which can be attributed to both Jon taking a cut and Bohn paying them more.

I do understand where you've been coming from. But, I don't think you see where I'm coming from. I'll try to be clearer because I think it is important in realistically evaluating the kinds of coaches we'd be able to hire. In looking at what we've done in the past and comparing that to what other top 25 programs pay, I find it unrealistic to assume that the admin is going to pay the coaching staff what we'll need to pay in order to get the results we want. Given where we are now, I think the post Embree staff will make approximately $2.75-$3.25mm per year (which might be average for all BCS schools, but far less than the median for the nation's best teams).

To find out why, we have to evaluate total compensation when thinking about why CU pays its football staff what it does. As I see it, we pay the current assistant staff what we do (which is only average for the conference in 2012) BECAUSE the head coach is grossly underpaid compared to the conference. The university admin doesn't care so much about where the money is spent so long as it doesn't exceed their budget for total football staff compensation.

So, if we raise the HC salary as you say (by $1.25 -- $1.75mm per year), the assistant salary pool diminishes greatly. The only problem with that is assistants are what make teams winners. They're the primary recruiters and coaches who develop players. If we cut assistant pay from where we are now, we make it even more difficult to attract very good assistants to accompany the (hopefully) very good HC we hire.

That's why I keep saying that I *wish* we would spend $4.5-$5mm+ on coaches. Why? Because that would put us in the range with other schools who are consistently within the top 25. But, I do not think that my wish will become a reality because over the past twenty years or so, I have only seen the university go in the direction of spending less on football. Now that we're in the PAC 12, the money is available; but, with severe budget cuts from the state for the larger university, the money from the conference is a political hot potato for the admin.

 

[manhattanbuff]

This is obviously where you and I have a difference of opinion. He's a football coach, not a life mentor. I'm seriously not interested in his personal life. I couldn't care less. Until it has an impact on his ability to win football games, it doesn't make a damn bit of difference to me.

Honestly, if it weren't for the show cause stuff, I'd want JT too. But, we need to get some momentum and play in bowl games ASAP.

 

[sackman]

The amount we spend is irrelevant. We need to spend whatever it takes to get the right guy here. Whatever that amount is. I think it's a mistake to peg a certain salary level as appropriate. If we want to hire Petrino, for instance, we might not have to pay all that much considering he's unemployed right now. Same goes for Tressel. It may be the kind of thing where we need to be prepared to pay a boatload in another year or two, though. I guess my point is that we need to be looking at hiring the best coach, not the most expensive one. Pay what you need to in order to get the guy you want.

 

[manhattanbuff]

The amount we spend is irrelevant. We need to spend whatever it takes to get the right guy here. Whatever that amount is. I think it's a mistake to peg a certain salary level as appropriate. If we want to hire Petrino, for instance, we might not have to pay all that much considering he's unemployed right now. Same goes for Tressel. It may be the kind of thing where we need to be prepared to pay a boatload in another year or two, though. I guess my point is that we need to be looking at hiring the best coach, not the most expensive one. Pay what you need to in order to get the guy you want.

I agree with you.

The decision makers at the University of Colorado do not.

 

[Quattro]

No I understand what you have been saying but you have failed to bring up numbers to support your biggest point, which is that we pay middle of the pack which makes your numbers useless. Get me the numbers for average total pay and then we will talk about salaries.

 

[manhattanbuff]

No I understand what you have been saying but you have failed to bring up numbers to support your biggest point, which is that we pay middle of the pack which makes your numbers useless. Get me the numbers for average total pay and then we will talk about salaries.

Read my postings on this thread and go to the USA Today websites I have linked to several times. When you sort the numbers based on total staff compensation and then by conference, you'll see the truth of my arguments. In the study, USC and Stanford have chosen not to release their numbers (and don't have to since they're private). However, I think we can safely assume that they pay much more than we do.

To be nice, I'll even paste the inks again...

Salaries for 2011 --

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/colle...ise/51242232/1

Salary changes for some newly hired coaches for 2012 (including Arizona, ASU, and Wazzu) --

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/colle...ion/52602734/1

 

[duaneallman8]

I don't know that much about JT, but can you list out a few of the dirty things he is accused of? Honest request. There is "dirty" like "The U" dirty, or Switzer dirty, and there is "dirty" like texting recruits in a blackout period.

This is the link to the SI article, some of the highlights below:

Essentially, it's a long trend of breaking the rules and allowing players to break the rules and, it seems in most cases (though I don't believe the tattoo parlor incident) engineering the process and connection to the booster. Stuff waaay to big for a coach or ad to miss and blatant cover up lies and an ignorance play on his part when questions came up.

- When the dept of justice info came in about the tattoo parlor incident, he claimed to not know anything, yet many of the items were signed by Tressel himself. It was later reported that he knew of what was happening a year earlier when informed in an e-mail by a Columbus lawyer. He claimed he "couldn't think" who to tell. Later reported that the only person he informed, and he did so immediately, was an advisor of Pryor's.

- "defensive end Robert Rose, whose career ended in 2009, told SI that he had swapped memorabilia for tattoos and that "at least 20 others" on the team had done so as well. SI's investigation also uncovered allegations that Ohio State players had traded memorabilia for marijuana and that Tressel had potentially broken NCAA rules when he was a Buckeyes assistant coach in the mid-1980s."


- While at Youngstown State, he arranged a relationship with his quarterback and a booster. According to documents, the quarterback made over 10,000 dollars from the booster and his associates. The quarterback also had a car provided by a local business. The booster later was tried for a number of crimes including theft, wire fraud, jury tampering etc. The booster testified that Tressel set in motion their relationship with a phone call. "13 Penguins had had jobs with the company during the season, in violation of NCAA rules; and nonscholarship student athletes were being illegally paid by the university's director of athletic development."


- "According to NCAA documents, all of Isaac's teammates who were interviewed "except one" knew about the car or had suspicions about it. Even people outside the football family knew. Pauline Saternow, then the school's compliance officer, had such misgivings about the car that she recused herself from the investigation committee because, according to Cochran, she did not feel she could be objective. Everyone raised an eyebrow -- except Tressel."


- According to the SI article, he got his qb out of traffic tickets (which occured while driving the car in question)

- Clarett claims that Tressel arranged cars for him and that Tressel's brother arranged "no-show" jobs for him. He also said connections were set up with boosters, whom he received thousands of dollars from. Tressel earlier claimed to have spent more time with Clarett than with anyone else on the team but when the allegations came, he threw his RB under the bus and claimed he was disgruntled.

- The department of justice claimed that almost 30 players spent time at the tattoo parlor (owned by a man with a blatant criminal history who went down for drug trafficking during this investigation). It was such common knowledge that kids would regularly come to the shop looking for autographs

- "Mark Titus posted on his blog on May 24 that it was common knowledge among students that football players were driving cars too pricey for their means. "You'd have to be blind to not notice it," he wrote. Former wide receiver Ray Small confirmed last week to The Lantern, the Ohio State student newspaper, that he got a "deal" on a car from a Columbus dealer, but he did not provide the terms."

 

[Duff Man]

Guys, Petrino did not get fired because he had an affair. That is what I have been trying to say all along.

 

[Quattro]

Read my postings on this thread and go to the USA Today websites I have linked to several times. When you sort the numbers based on total staff compensation and then by conference, you'll see the truth of my arguments. In the study, USC and Stanford have chosen not to release their numbers (and don't have to since they're private). However, I think we can safely assume that they pay much more than we do.

To be nice, I'll even paste the inks again...

Salaries for 2011 --

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/colle...ise/51242232/1

Salary changes for some newly hired coaches for 2012 (including Arizona, ASU, and Wazzu) --

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/colle...ion/52602734/1

I'm only seeing head coaching salary comments in those articles.

 

[manhattanbuff]

I'm only seeing head coaching salary comments in those articles.

LOL.

1) Click the 2011 article link.
2) Click "assistants".
3) Click to sort by "conference" and then you can see compensation for all coaches on a team's staff.

 

[Tea Rex]

Saw some Oregon fan suggest we should hire Paul Johnson, **** no

 

[Buffarino]

Plus, I don't like his "field position" style of football, even if it is effective.

We're losing by 50 pts every ****ing week. I don't give a **** what style the next coach plays, I just want wins.

 

[Quattro]

LOL.

1) Click the 2011 article link.
2) Click "assistants".
3) Click to sort by "conference" and then you can see compensation for all coaches on a team's staff.

So the issue would be it wasn't showing up on my phone.

So let's see...

Total Coaching Salary by Team
Arizona - $2.92M
Arizona State - $2.93M
California - $3.87M
Colorado - $3.22M
Oregon - $5.14M
Oregon State - $3.06M
UCLA - $2.97M
Utah - $3.32M
Washington - $4.53
Washington State - $1.88M
Average Total Salary - $2.93M

Head Coaches Salary by Team
Arizona - $1.75M
Arizona State - $2M
California - $2.3M
Colorado - $725,000
Oregon - $2.8M
Oregon State - $1.3M
UCLA - $2.4M
Utah - $1.7M
Washington - $2.25M
Washington State - $2.25M
Average Head Coaches Salary - $1.95M

So if we pay the new head coach $2.0M, and want to spend less than $4.5M, that still leaves us with $2.5M on assistant coaches, which would put us below the average. Fair enough. But with the new Pac 12 money, who is to say that Bohn will not pay market price, ie. basing pay off of the competitors and the average? I don't see Bohn paying less than market for the new head coach, nor do I see him paying below market for assistant coaches, which would put us at a minimum of $4.8M. The CUAD has never had this much flexibility with money before, and I think we'll see that a result of that will be paying our coaches a higher wage. Your own article backs my statement:

"It's all market-driven," Mississippi State athletics director Scott Stricklin says. "When we hired Dan, we paid him $600,000 less than our previous coach … with the understanding that you know when you do that, you're saving money today but if he's successful you're going to catch him up to where the market is."

There is no way in hell that Bohn will pay the next coach less than $725,000. With equal revenue sharing within the the conference, it's pretty basic to understand that market value will be paid, which is $4.8M for all.

 

[tante]

LOL.

1) Click the 2011 article link.
2) Click "assistants".
3) Click to sort by "conference" and then you can see compensation for all coaches on a team's staff.

it was a bit surprising for me, but some of the data is inaccurate, unless Penn State didn't pay their assistant coaches. But a quick glance tells me we are going to pay around $4 million for all our coaches, and probably around $2 million for a head coach. yikes

 

[sackman]

Guys, Petrino did not get fired because he had an affair. That is what I have been trying to say all along.

Then what did he get fired for? The affair was the crux of the situation. No affair = no firing. The technicalities of it were who he was having the affair with, and then trying to cover it up.

 

[Duff Man]

Then what did he get fired for? The affair was the crux of the situation. No affair = no firing. The technicalities of it were who he was having the affair with, and then trying to cover it up.

He tried to hire the person with whom he was having an affair to work as a subordinate employee. That is not a small "technicality".

 

[drmike]

Then what did he get fired for? The affair was the crux of the situation. No affair = no firing. The technicalities of it were who he was having the affair with, and then trying to cover it up.

I don't know the exact details but it has something to due with the fact that he pulled strings to get her unfairly hired. The affair caused public institutional hiring issues on top of the embarrassment.

 

[Walter White]

This is obviously where you and I have a difference of opinion. He's a football coach, not a life mentor. I'm seriously not interested in his personal life. I couldn't care less. Until it has an impact on his ability to win football games, it doesn't make a damn bit of difference to me.

I would call it "conduct unbecoming" and it is a big deal to me and it's a big deal to a lot of institutions and individuals. I don't believe in compartmentalization. I don't care if it does not have a negative impact on the performance of his job.

 

[manhattanbuff]

So if we pay the new head coach $2.0M, and want to spend less than $4.5M, that still leaves us with $2.5M on assistant coaches, which would put us below the average. Fair enough. But with the new Pac 12 money, who is to say that Bohn will not pay market price, ie. basing pay off of the competitors and the average? I don't see Bohn paying less than market for the new head coach, nor do I see him paying below market for assistant coaches, which would put us at a minimum of $4.8M. The CUAD has never had this much flexibility with money before, and I think we'll see that a result of that will be paying our coaches a higher wage. Your own article backs my statement:

There is no way in hell that Bohn will pay the next coach less than $725,000. With equal revenue sharing within the the conference, it's pretty basic to understand that market value will be paid, which is $4.8M for all.

This is where we disagree. There's nothing in the history of our program to suggest that we'll pay the market for top coaching prospects (although we may pay less for average coaches). Given our terribly outdated facilities, contentious budget climate for education in Colorado, and really money strapped surrounding university, I think the next coach will likely get closer to $1.5mm and the staff keep their salaries similar. That $1mm difference in per year salary is substantial. In the article, when you sort the staffs below $4mm, you really see spotty results from those teams.

BTW, the quotation from the article is from an AD at a school (Ole Miss) who cares about football on the larger campus. I agree that all universities with access to big time football should think that way. But, our university is unique. Just because we will have the money does not imply that we will spend it on football coach salaries to lock in top notch coaching. This is why I keep harping on the fact that you haven't given any argument that would suggest that the University of Colorado higher ups will switch their philosophy on this matter. I think the evidence is to the contrary.

 

[Walter White]

This is the link to the SI article, some of the highlights below:

Essentially, it's a long trend of breaking the rules and allowing players to break the rules and, it seems in most cases (though I don't believe the tattoo parlor incident) engineering the process and connection to the booster. Stuff waaay to big for a coach or ad to miss and blatant cover up lies and an ignorance play on his part when questions came up.

- When the dept of justice info came in about the tattoo parlor incident, he claimed to not know anything, yet many of the items were signed by Tressel himself. It was later reported that he knew of what was happening a year earlier when informed in an e-mail by a Columbus lawyer. He claimed he "couldn't think" who to tell. Later reported that the only person he informed, and he did so immediately, was an advisor of Pryor's.

- "defensive end Robert Rose, whose career ended in 2009, told SI that he had swapped memorabilia for tattoos and that "at least 20 others" on the team had done so as well. SI's investigation also uncovered allegations that Ohio State players had traded memorabilia for marijuana and that Tressel had potentially broken NCAA rules when he was a Buckeyes assistant coach in the mid-1980s."


- While at Youngstown State, he arranged a relationship with his quarterback and a booster. According to documents, the quarterback made over 10,000 dollars from the booster and his associates. The quarterback also had a car provided by a local business. The booster later was tried for a number of crimes including theft, wire fraud, jury tampering etc. The booster testified that Tressel set in motion their relationship with a phone call. "13 Penguins had had jobs with the company during the season, in violation of NCAA rules; and nonscholarship student athletes were being illegally paid by the university's director of athletic development."


- "According to NCAA documents, all of Isaac's teammates who were interviewed "except one" knew about the car or had suspicions about it. Even people outside the football family knew. Pauline Saternow, then the school's compliance officer, had such misgivings about the car that she recused herself from the investigation committee because, according to Cochran, she did not feel she could be objective. Everyone raised an eyebrow -- except Tressel."


- According to the SI article, he got his qb out of traffic tickets (which occured while driving the car in question)

- Clarett claims that Tressel arranged cars for him and that Tressel's brother arranged "no-show" jobs for him. He also said connections were set up with boosters, whom he received thousands of dollars from. Tressel earlier claimed to have spent more time with Clarett than with anyone else on the team but when the allegations came, he threw his RB under the bus and claimed he was disgruntled.

- The department of justice claimed that almost 30 players spent time at the tattoo parlor (owned by a man with a blatant criminal history who went down for drug trafficking during this investigation). It was such common knowledge that kids would regularly come to the shop looking for autographs

- "Mark Titus posted on his blog on May 24 that it was common knowledge among students that football players were driving cars too pricey for their means. "You'd have to be blind to not notice it," he wrote. Former wide receiver Ray Small confirmed last week to The Lantern, the Ohio State student newspaper, that he got a "deal" on a car from a Columbus dealer, but he did not provide the terms."

That's quite a list. If all of that is true, there is no way I would want him associated with my school.

 

[Walter White]

We need to spend whatever it takes to get the right guy here. Pay what you need to in order to get the guy you want.

Without a doubt

 

[branjohb]

Shawn Watson, now I have heard everything.

Yep! I know he has a history with the Buff program. I also know what he accomplished with the Husker Offense, and what he has done while at Louisville. That alone speaks a great deal. Watson knows football and he knows how to run a high powered Offense. With Watson's connections, I hope the Colorado AD hives Watson a serious look if Embree doesn't work out.

Every year the Buff fans were ready to burn the guy at the stake. He did nothing for our offense, even when we had some talent. Now we want to bring him back as a :lol:retread.

 

[SINKRATZ]

Every year the Buff fans were ready to burn the guy at the stake. He did nothing for our offense, even when we had some talent. Now we want to bring him back as a :lol:retread.

He's f**king with us. A couple of you guys took the bait.

 

[Tractor]

2 things:
1. BuffSurveyor is a Troll
2. Petrino is my pick. Proven winner, his teams have improved pretty much every year. He loves motorcycles and banging chicks. Downside: He is EXTREMELY loyal to good lays. Also, may miss his own kids' piano recitals.


Head coaching record is off the charts. His teams get better. Only time his record went down was when Louisville changed to a (slightly) more competitive football conference.

Year	Team	Overall	Conference	Standing	Bowl/playoffs	Coaches[SUP]#[/SUP]	AP[SUP]°[/SUP]
Louisville Cardinals (Conference USA) (2003–2004)
2003	Louisville	9–4	5–3	T–3rd	L GMAC
2004	Louisville	11–1	8–0	1st	W Liberty	7	6
Louisville Cardinals (Big East Conference) (2005–2006)
2005	Louisville	9–3	5–2	2nd	L Gator	20	19
2006	Louisville	12–1	6–1	1st	W Orange[SUP]†[/SUP]	6	5
Louisville:	41–9	24–6
Arkansas Razorbacks (Southeastern Conference) (2008–2011)
2008	Arkansas	5–7	2–6	T–4th (West)
2009	Arkansas	8–5	3–5	T-4th (West)	W Liberty
2010	Arkansas	10–3	6–2	T–2nd (West)	L Sugar[SUP]†[/SUP]	12	12
2011	Arkansas	11–2	6–2	3rd (West)	W Cotton	5	5
Arkansas:	34–17	17–15
Total:	75–26

side note: i don't think recruiting would be impacted in a negative manner by hiring Petrino. Do you guys? Dude can coach!

 

[Burrito]

He's f**king with us. A couple of you guys took the bait.

He misses Callahan. He's a troll. **** Nebraska.

 

[Dark Bohner]

Gary Anderson from Utah State. He has built that program from crap into a very good football team. They have the 5th ranked scoring defense in the country, and their 2 losses this season were by 2 points @Wisconsin and by 3 points @BYU.

 

[SINKRATZ]

Gary Anderson from Utah State. He has built that program from crap into a very good football team. They have the 5th ranked scoring defense in the country, and their 2 losses this season were by 2 points @Wisconsin and by 3 points @BYU.

Meh, I don't get the appeal. I really hope that's not the best we can do.

 

[DenverBuff77]

Meh, I don't get the appeal. I really hope that's not the best we can do.

At first I was against this too, but the more I think about it, the hiring would make sense. IMO we need a defensive coach. Buck the trend of amazing offense and no D in the Pac-12.

I just don't want us to hire a coordinator with no HC experience, if we don't have to(Coaching pool is pretty weak this year though). If we did the only guy I would want is Diaco. Kirby doesn't do it for me because I haven't seen what he can do with minimal talent.