added a poll for you
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Would we have been better off naming Darrin Chiaverini the permanent head coach?
- Thread starter Joe Theismann's Leg
- Start date
Hold on. In this analogy, are you suggesting Karl Dorrell is a licensed cardiologist?
I am suggesting that he is a father figure, akin to a RA.
Would a 2-10 record (1-8 in conference), a historically inept offense, and 11th or 12th in Pac 12 recruiting move him to Embree level? I get he managed this program to a bowl game in an unprecedented 5 game regular season in which half the teams in the conference weren't even accepting bowl invites, but there is a whole lot of slack being cut in this thread, for a guy who is currently running this program into the ground.
Joe Theismann's Leg
Well-Known Member
I think in this analogy DC is a mediocre med school student who shows some small amount of promise in cardiology and KD is a former cardiologist who graduated last in his class and had his medical license revoked. There's no good options but MAYBE one is better than the other.
Joe Theismann's Leg
Well-Known Member
Exactly. DC was promoted to a job that required a different skillset. (The Peter Principle). Promoting him to HC would potentially be a job he has some level of aptitude for. It's the solution to the Peter Principle, put people in jobs they have the skillset for, don't promote them because they're good at the job they have. Chiv has been the posterboy for the concept and we may well have avoided it with better outcome.
I don’t think saying he’s slightly better than Embree is cutting anyone much slack.
Hard to imagine his recruiting would be worse than 11th/12th as it is currently (avg recruit rating)
I get that the coaches we've had since Barnett set a low bar, but I don't think he's much different than Embree at this point, and I'm not really sure why anyone would suggest he's better than Hawkins.
You forgot “oh hell no” and “I like poles”.
Joe Theismann's Leg
Well-Known Member
I really didn't become a fan until HCMM's first year, but looking at it after the fact, it's unbelievable the damage Embree did to the team. You can't blame one guy, and this is probably a discussion for it's own thread, but from an outsider's (at the time) perspective, Hawkins burned the house down, and Embree pissed on the ashes.
Hawkins made a mess of a program that wasn't doing great to begin with, but had 5 winning seasons and 5 bowls under GB. Then he went to one bowl and had one winning season in his whole tenure. Embree followed that up with two of the worst seasons and two of the worst recruiting classes ever... how did we even land on him as a coach? Hawkins at least was responsible for if not making Boise State into a national power (Dirk Koetter gets a lot of credit I think), sustaining and building on that success. On paper he seemed like a good candidate... but Embree, on paper it doesn't make sense at all.
Please try to understand my basic point before you jump in the next time around.
And, using your context, my basic point is that Dorrell graduated (and held employment for a certain period afterwards) and that Chiaverini first has to prove he can do likewise.
Still a no for me.
Even at that rate, Dorell would have more overall wins, more conference wins, a much better winning percentage in conference, and a bowl game appearance in fewer games. The low points are similar- blanked at home, dismantled by mediocre conference foes, but Dorell has at least beaten all the FCS teams he's faced and has never lost by more than 50 points to a G5 opponent. Embree lucked into that WSU win in 2012. Dorell's sole P12 win from this season was not an asskicking, but he didn't luck into it.
Additionally, In his second season, Embree had exactly one conference loss (Utah) that wasn't by more than 4 scores. It's hard for me to imagine that level of futility out of this team for the rest of the season as Dorell has yet to lose a P12 game by 4 scores.
I get that a lot of us are trying to block that period out, but 2011-12 was so awful it almost defies description.
Uh, I understand you don't think he's as bad as Embree. I'm wondering if going 2-10 with terrible recruiting puts him in that category.
Are we still looking for answers to the question?
Given his overall CV I think that sticking around for five largely mediocre but not absolutely catastrophic years at UCLA proves he’s not Embree level catastrophic. I do not think that Embree could keep another P5 job for five years and neither do I think Chiaverini could. I also think that the 2021 CU team, while being bad, isn’t as uncompetitive as the 2012 team.
None of this concerns my opinion on Dorrell’s job security at CU, it is a facts based observation based on Dorrell’s overall CV.
That 2012 CU squad probably loses to Arizona.
NuggNinja
Well-Known Member
Dorell is in over his head, doesn’t appear to be a good recruiter, and was away from the college game for a long time. Chiaverini has been recruiting in the college game and has had some success
I don’t think either of them are good football coaches but with recruiting maybe being slightly better and him almost certainly being significantly cheaper (since he isn’t a former head coach) and having a smaller buyout, CU would be in a better position today.
If for no other reason than getting rid of him would actually be a realistic option today.
I don’t think either of them are good football coaches but with recruiting maybe being slightly better and him almost certainly being significantly cheaper (since he isn’t a former head coach) and having a smaller buyout, CU would be in a better position today.
If for no other reason than getting rid of him would actually be a realistic option today.
What in his background or current body of work suggests that he’s in any way qualified to be a HC or has the aptitude for it?
Joe Theismann's Leg
Well-Known Member
Because it's more about recruiting, handling the media and forging relationships with players than designing plays, coaching positions etc.
Not Sure
Sets low bar, barely exceeds it.
Take a lap.
Yeah, there might be a bit more than that with a HC but you keeping on thinking that DC has what it takes.
I view this ranking in two separate ways. The first below being actual ability as a head coach and the second being how they rank in terms of leaving cu in a better position. I think Hawkins and Dorrell are about even in their ability to be a head coach
1. Tucker
2. MacIntyre
3a. Hawkins
3b. Dorrell
5. Embree
But how I think this ranking will look based off how they left CU
1. MacIntyre
2. Tucker
3. Hawkins
4. Embree
5. Dorrell
My reasoning for the above: MacIntyre truly got CU into the position where they could compete. I believe Tucker would have elevated that position further but since it was only one year, I can't say he left it in a better position than MacIntyre did relative to their arrival. Hawkins we all know about.
Where I view the issue is that I think we very well could be worse off after Dorrell leaves/is fired than we were with Embree. The recruiting is just as bad, the coaching is slightly better but it's an entirely different landscape in college football. When more realignment changes happen over the next couple years, if CU is sitting at 1-11/2-10 for 3 consecutive years, we will be the bottom of the barrel for any major changes. If the power conferences split off and create their own playoff or whatever scenario that might end up being, is a CU team that's been bad for 25 years save 2016 going to be an option? I doubt it. My two cents.
Also to answer the OP: Chev doesn't recruit now, why would he recruit when he's the boss of all the people that should be recruiting? Makes zero sense and if Chev had been named head coach, I would have offed myself before watching his teams play football.
What about Chev has shown he might have the skillset to be a head coach outside of his enthusiasm?
X's and O's? Terrible
Maturity? Non-existent
Teaching? Nothing that seems anything above mediocre at best
Relates to players? I suppose during the recruiting process yeah but I've heard multiple times how a lot of the receivers hate him as their coach once they get here
Work ethic? See recruiting, doesn't seem that prominent
Charisma? I guess, but then see maturity
Innovation? Nope
Annoying? Abso-****in-lutely
It's a decent question, a cfb hc doesn't need to be the best x and o guy, but this season cemented my questions about his general competency. He appears to have many other tools required for a hc gig, but it basically took him 5.5 games to figure out we should try throwing the ball vertically more than once a game. I'll have a heart attack the day he tries a play action (perhaps deep) on 2nd or 3rd and short. Those aren't x and o's, it's pattern recognition. If he can't do it for play calling, no chance he'll be able to do it assessing assistant coach quality
Probably not. Definitely wouldn't have hired a nationally recognized strength coach
Wow. I am surprised at the high opinion of Hawkins here. I would put him at the bottom of the list. Yes, below Embree. Embree had no chance to succeed and shouldn’t have been put in that position, especially with the inexperienced staff he brought in, but Hawkins earned it off of Petersen’s skill and quickly demonstrated he has no clue. KD is squarely above them.
bigbang2
blindslighted
KD might turn out not to be the guy. But it is extremely premature to make any decisions. Also we dont know if he is a good recruiter or not. He has not even coached a full 12 game season for the Buffs. I think he has recruited relatively well considering where CU was coming from. Recruiting to me is not about star ratings or rankings. It is about end results. Not enough data to make any conclusions. Will give him another year.