Darian3Hagan
'89 Player of the Year
Thats fair. I think the firing should happen as soon as a bowl is out of reach.
AllBuffs | Unofficial fan site for the University of Colorado at Boulder Athletics programs
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
Prime Time. Prime Time. Its a new era for Colorado football. Consider signing up for a club membership! For $20/year, you can get access to all the special features at Allbuffs, including club member only forums, dark mode, avatars and best of all no ads ! But seriously, please sign up so that we can pay the bills. No one earns money here, and we can use your $20 to keep this hellhole running. You can sign up for a club membership by navigating to your account in the upper right and clicking on "Account Upgrades". Make it happen!
Mike MacIntyre: Does He Make It Through 2016?
- Thread starter DiggerBuffs
- Start date
Thats fair. I think the firing should happen as soon as a bowl is out of reach.
SINKRATZ
PhD in Analogy
Embree: 2 years
Mac: 3 years
New guy: 1 year
That's 3 coaches in 6 years under that scenario. But doesn't matter, we kept Mac and that's fine as long as he wins this year.
This isn't hard to understand. Hawkins was fired in the fall of 2010. Embree was coach until the Fall of 2012, if Mac would have been let go last fall and we hired another coach after the season that would be 4 coaches (Hawkins, Embree, Mac and the new guy) in the span of actually 5 years (fall of 2010 to fall of 2015).
Darian3Hagan
'89 Player of the Year
No obviously if he makes a bowl he stays, and if you can extend with minimal commitment then fine, but unfortunately CU is just as bad at firing coaches as they are hiring them.
"The regents voted (Feb 2014) to amend MacIntyre's existing contract so that it extends through Dec. 31, 2018."
If he makes bowl eligible and he signs a strong class he probably gets extended to 2020 so recruiters cant use his lack of extension against him with the 2018 and 2019 classes. Extensions are meaningless anyways. We can fire him whenever we like. The Pac12s TV contract revenue allows us much more flexibility in affording a change like that.
If we do make a bowl it will likely be on the back of a stout CU defense. I am much more worried about someone stealing Leavitt and making him a head coach again because he took the worst defense in P5 and made them better. I like having him on staff so I dont have to figure out if Rick George can handle a coaching hire or not. Leavitt is the Easy button.
That was his first year and they won 4 games, which was an upgrade from 1 and a ton of ass kickings the year before. That is a lot different than making a bowl game with 6 wins in year 4.
SINKRATZ
PhD in Analogy
If you're talking calendar years instead of seasons then I suppose, but that's misleading. The last 5 seasons we would have had 2 coaches. Let's just agree that you're wrong and move on
End thread.
LMFAO at people pointing to Embree's "talent level" because he had some guys go to the NFL. Lets just sweep under the rug the complete and utter cluster**** that was every single conference game, where we lost by 40+ points, including some of our most embarrassing losses in program history.
All Embree's tenure proves is that there needs to be a happy medium between being able to recruit and being able to actually run a D1 program and coach. I think we are seeing MM move toward that medium over the past 6-8 months; the only question is whether it's too little, too late to have it show tangible results on the field.
All Embree's tenure proves is that there needs to be a happy medium between being able to recruit and being able to actually run a D1 program and coach. I think we are seeing MM move toward that medium over the past 6-8 months; the only question is whether it's too little, too late to have it show tangible results on the field.
You could argue that he (or any coach) is responsible for having less to work with. Being a good coach isn't enough. You have to sell and close. If you don't you are at a big disadvantage of your own making. It's super competitive out there. Every program in the p12 throws money around and there are lots of coaches who know what they are doing.
I have to admit that I like Mike MacIntyre. He handles himself well. He is a professional. He hasnt lost me like Hawkins did in year ~4 with his obnoxious comments or like Embree did in year 2. I think there is a lot of fatigue and pain from DH and JE that have pushed most into having a shorter leash with MM
I can however separate the fact that I like MM from his ability or inability to do the job. He hasn't lost me yet.
I can however separate the fact that I like MM from his ability or inability to do the job. He hasn't lost me yet.
BlackNGold
Club Member
Jon Embree is not the standard for coaches and he got fired after two years for his mistakes - some of which where caused by mis-management by the AD. I guess that we also sweep under the rug that MacIntyre was paid big time bucks to build a P5 program and to date has won one less conference win in 3 years than Embree had in two. I think Embree was a bad hire and did not like it at the time. I also think MacIntyre was a bad hire. I do not buy most the koolaid put out by fans about MacIntyre - I have seen nothing to make me think he is a good coach. Embree was a bad coach so he was fired, MacIntyre is a bad coach so why should his fate be different.
I didn't say it shouldn't be. I was simply replying to a few of the posters that our talent level was better under Embree because we had some players drafted.
He isn't Art Briles? Too soon?
BlackNGold
Club Member
Then why was Embree fired - he is not Briles and he got a quicker hook!!!
The argument about NFL talent under Embree is one of the funnier things I have seen on this site in a long time.
I know this is a half serious comment, but you honestly seem like you were more of an Embree supporter than a MM supporter, and I'm wondering why. As to the difference in conference wins, Utah in 2011 was a solid road win to end the year, but I don't think beating Arizona (4-8) in 2011 at home and Wash St (3-9) in 2012 in a year where they won 1 game period, is something that should be favorably compared to the conference record of MM's tenure. Rather, I think program trajectory, "competitiveness" in the majority of games and roster depth and balance, all of which have absolutely seen marked improvement under MM, are better indicators the quality of job each of these coaches have done.
Win/Loss record tends to be a lagging indicator of a football team's improvement, or demise. There are other, leading indicators of an improving or declining team.
The problem is that those other indicators don't always translate into wins or losses. They generally do, but not always.
I think everyone would agree that MM has improved several of the things that would be considered leading indicators. It remains to be seen if he can translate those improvements into wins on the field.
4 years is long enough. I think he'll likely be fired as soon as it's obvious the team isn't going to make a bowl game. Unless it isn't obvious until the very last game; if that's the case, a top 30 recruiting class might be enough to save him.
The problem is that those other indicators don't always translate into wins or losses. They generally do, but not always.
I think everyone would agree that MM has improved several of the things that would be considered leading indicators. It remains to be seen if he can translate those improvements into wins on the field.
4 years is long enough. I think he'll likely be fired as soon as it's obvious the team isn't going to make a bowl game. Unless it isn't obvious until the very last game; if that's the case, a top 30 recruiting class might be enough to save him.
BlackNGold
Club Member
You absolutely have to be kidding me!!!!! Nice trick trying to claim my point is that I am an Embree Supporter to discredit me. You want to argue whose wins had greater quality - beating a bad Cal team and a bad Oregon State team both of which went winless in conference. I don't want to get drawn into some Embree versus MacIntyre discussion. Here is my complaints about MacIntyre - a really bad administrator who had done a bad job forming and managing his staff...to this day there is still dead weight on the staff. Does not focus on recruiting and does not appear to be able to close, lets part of the staff get away without doing a good job of it, seems to believe you can win at the Pac 12 level by bringing in projects, we do not have roster depth and we have balance issues. Takes a long time to figure things out (wrong strength program after 5 years with the guy).
Biggest deal for me is that I just don't believe he is going to be very good - limited upside potential.
My point was to say that we shouldn't be comparing Embree's conference wins with MM's, a comparison you drew in your earlier post, because they have both been epically bad. I apologize for "claiming" that you are an Embree fan; that was not my intent. IMO, your posts have a staunchly anti-MM vibe to them, with a slightly less anti-Embree one.
As to your complaints...
Aren't there some rumors that Bohn required him to bring his SJSU staff? That doesn't excuse him for keeping guys like JJ and GB around in year 4, but would explain the initial formation of the staff.
Recruiting was obviously piss poor prior to the closing of last class and the start to this one. Many seemed convinced that he had a bad approach to recruiting when he got here, but it seems he has recognized that is was bad and began to remedy it (please see my "too little too late" comment in a prior post).
No excuse for GB and JJ to skate on the staff and not have to pull their weight in recruiting (I have recently expressed my displeasure with the recruiting in the trenches and these men being retained in year 4).
I would argue that our roster depth is definitely better now than it was when he took over, and I think with the exception of QB, our positional and class balance is far better than it was when he took over.
I'm not saying MM is doing an A+ job in his tenure as HC, but the point was to essentially say that MM has brought this program to a better place than where it was when he found it. I acknowledge that it's nowhere close to where it needs to be, or perhaps should be going into year four, though.
He is just less bad then bad if JE was the bad epitome of bad.
BlackNGold
Club Member
For TSchekler - That Embree had 3 conference wins in 2 years and MacIntyre has 2 in 3 years is just a simple fact. Neither performance is acceptable.
The Bohn thing is simple speculation and it is incorrect.
The Bohn thing is simple speculation and it is incorrect.
Roger
Completely agree, I think it really is that simple especially with the abundance of bowl games now.
Medford M.
Well-Known Member
As for the roster depth question...
JE played Yuri Wright and Marques Mosley... as freshmen... 2 guys who should have never seen the field for CU.
JE played Yuri Wright and Marques Mosley... as freshmen... 2 guys who should have never seen the field for CU.
That's ok, they were highly rated with lots of P5 offers. That makes them better CFB players here than a 3rd year SO who has had no other P5 offers, and only played a bit so far on STs.
fatbuff
Member
Some things never change. We need a team of Rudys if we want to start winning again. At least your thinking is original, no matter how wrong it is.
Yuri was the highest rated get in awhile for CU as well as a huge flop.
I think this is a little harsh. Mac isn't doing what he needs to do... but he is CLEARLY a better coach then Embree, even if it doesn't show up in the W-L column. Anyone with eyeballs sees that.
I don't think he is our savior and expect him to be fired by the end of the year, unfortunately, but I would take him 10 out of 10 times against Jon Embree.