Mike MacIntyre: Does He Make It Through 2016?

[BlackNGold]

I think this is a little harsh. Mac isn't doing what he needs to do... but he is CLEARLY a better coach then Embree, even if it doesn't show up in the W-L column. Anyone with eyeballs sees that.

I don't think he is our savior and expect him to be fired by the end of the year, unfortunately, but I would take him 10 out of 10 times against Jon Embree.

And some of you guys are so invested in hating Embree that you can't get his name out of the narrative when it comes to MacIntyre. Forget Embree - he is gone. MacIntyre was brought in as a proven HC at the Div 1 level and is paid at that level, he has been given a salary pool to hire P5 assistants. Instead of a proven coach, we have a guy who is learning on the job and is very slow in figuring things out. That is what is frustrating to me on this board - so many are content to watch this guy throw the program into a deeper pit. I was in the same boat with Bohn - he was a bad AD but everyone loved him because he was so cute when he said "Go Buffs" -
I want someone who is a significant improvement not someone from the bottom of pool.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

MacIntyre was brought in as a proven HC at the Div 1 level and is paid at that level, he has been given a salary pool to hire P5 assistants. Instead of a proven coach, we have a guy who is learning on the job and is very slow in figuring things out. That is what is frustrating to me on this board - so many are content to watch this guy throw the program into a deeper pit.

First let me say as a former player I value your position on this more than most of the rest of the posters. And I fully agree that we clearly hired someone with an NFL background who was a successful D1 head coach who essentially laid a goose egg right out of the gate. Where I break with you on this though is that unlike his two predecessors he's shown a willingness to make changes to correct those problems and those decisions appear so far to be good ones. Now recruiting, for the first time in years, seems to be improving.

Yes, we absolutely have good enough reason to fire to him. But I see too much risk.

Given the way the past two hires went though what makes you think things would be any better this time? I know that statistics tend to show that the 4th hire tends to be the right one for any position (we had 'the faker' hire and 'the insider' hire already fail). I just dont have much confidence in CU making a good hire for a change because theyve been so bad at it. The likelyhood of them finding the next Harbaugh or Meyer is virtually zero and thats what we really need. So, we'd likely be taking someone elses former head coach (with their baggage) or some G5 head coach like MacIntyre or an assistant thats never been a head coach. Were not going to go out and outbid someone for a Meyer caliber guy so were going to get one of the last two who will also have to learn on the job.

 

[Buffnik]

And some of you guys are so invested in hating Embree that you can't get his name out of the narrative when it comes to MacIntyre. Forget Embree - he is gone. MacIntyre was brought in as a proven HC at the Div 1 level and is paid at that level, he has been given a salary pool to hire P5 assistants. Instead of a proven coach, we have a guy who is learning on the job and is very slow in figuring things out. That is what is frustrating to me on this board - so many are content to watch this guy throw the program into a deeper pit. I was in the same boat with Bohn - he was a bad AD but everyone loved him because he was so cute when he said "Go Buffs" -
I want someone who is a significant improvement not someone from the bottom of pool.

I thought you were the one who brought up Embree?

Regardless, I don't think many of us are seeing HCMM as digging a deeper pit. We see improvement in on-field play, in talent and in depth. The debate is mostly about whether he is going to be able to get us out of the pit the program was in and whether he can build CU back to a consistent Top 25 program once we're back on solid footing.

With HCMM, I see a coach who has done a lot of things well while also having some missteps that slowed the turnaround. I also see that he's not locked in on a strategy and is willing to change/grow. Main thing has been with staff and recruiting. My question is in that area: too little/ too slow/ too late? He needs to get to a bowl game this season and complete this very promising recruiting class. If that happens, I'll feel very good about the trajectory of the program under him. If he doesn't, I'll be very supportive if RG chooses to move in a different direction with our HC.

 

[buffs04]

Putting aside issues of whether or not he will be retained for this long, I think that two consecutive top-35 recruiting classes would be sufficient (but not necessary) for me to want to keep him around. That being said: not going to happen, IMO.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

With HCMM, I see a coach who has done a lot of things well while also having some missteps that slowed the turnaround. I also see that he's not locked in on a strategy and is willing to change/grow. Main thing has been with staff and recruiting. My question is in that area: too little/ too slow/ too late? He needs to get to a bowl game this season and complete this very promising recruiting class. If that happens, I'll feel very good about the trajectory of the program under him. If he doesn't, I'll be very supportive if RG chooses to move in a different direction with our HC.

What if he only does one of the two? What if he gets say 5 wins and is on the verge of signing a top 20 recruiting class?

 

[Buffnik]

What if he only does one of the two? What if he gets say 5 wins and is on the verge of signing a top 20 recruiting class?

Then I probably won't have a strong opinion either way and will line up behind RG like a good CU fan soldier.

If he achieves both, I want him back with a 2-year extension.

If he fails at both, I want a coaching change.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

What if he only does one of the two? What if he gets say 5 wins and is on the verge of signing a top 20 recruiting class?

This is the question I posed about 4-5 pages ago. I see this as the scenario for MM returning for a 5th year, without a bowl game this season. That's why I don't agree with most poster who claim that "It's pretty simple: Bowl game = Keep, No Bowl Game = Fire". I don't believe this is a black or white situation.

 

[BuffLuke80]

Well, if he starts landing guys from Gorman, it'd be hard to let him go. We are gonna win games this year, how many? Who knows. We keep landing difference makers and really good prospects, I like the direction. If we don't get some things done this year though, we need a few tweaks even if it isn't MM.

 

[Johnny Juzang]

I hope Mac is able to get us to a bowl game this season and work on getting a great class in. If not, though, I have a great deal of faith in Rick George. I think he can be trusted to make a good hire.

 

[DiggerBuffs]

First let me say as a former player I value your position on this more than most of the rest of the posters. And I fully agree that we clearly hired someone with an NFL background who was a successful D1 head coach who essentially laid a goose egg right out of the gate. Where I break with you on this though is that unlike his two predecessors he's shown a willingness to make changes to correct those problems and those decisions appear so far to be good ones. Now recruiting, for the first time in years, seems to be improving.

Yes, we absolutely have good enough reason to fire to him. But I see too much risk.

Given the way the past two hires went though what makes you think things would be any better this time? I know that statistics tend to show that the 4th hire tends to be the right one for any position (we had 'the faker' hire and 'the insider' hire already fail). I just dont have much confidence in CU making a good hire for a change because theyve been so bad at it. The likelyhood of them finding the next Harbaugh or Meyer is virtually zero and thats what we really need. So, we'd likely be taking someone elses former head coach (with their baggage) or some G5 head coach like MacIntyre or an assistant thats never been a head coach. Were not going to go out and outbid someone for a Meyer caliber guy so were going to get one of the last two who will also have to learn on the job.

Very good post. I will say that McElwain was just a P5 assistant that has proved his worth and there are others that may be out there. Mike Mac has done a lot of things I like. The issue lies with wins. It is a year where he has to show Ws. Bowl game or bust is fair. Buffs should have had 5 Ws last year so to expect 6 is fair. Time to start winning. Hoping Mac makes it happen.

 

[Duff Man]

Given the way the past two hires went though what makes you think things would be any better this time? I know that statistics tend to show that the 4th hire tends to be the right one for any position (we had 'the faker' hire and 'the insider' hire already fail). I just dont have much confidence in CU making a good hire for a change because theyve been so bad at it. The likelyhood of them finding the next Harbaugh or Meyer is virtually zero and thats what we really need. So, we'd likely be taking someone elses former head coach (with their baggage) or some G5 head coach like MacIntyre or an assistant thats never been a head coach. Were not going to go out and outbid someone for a Meyer caliber guy so were going to get one of the last two who will also have to learn on the job.

This is a faulty argument. For one, we have a different AD and better facilities than we did for the last two hires. While the jury is out on RG's hiring ability, the facilities are something that absolutely makes this a more attractive job than in 2013.

As to your assertion that the only guys who can possibly turn around this program are top five coaches nationally, what is are you basing that on? There are a lot of quality assistant coaches and even head coaches that could be successful here. BTW, Meyer and Harbaugh had to start somewhere.

 

[vinniew_11]

And some of you guys are so invested in hating Embree that you can't get his name out of the narrative when it comes to MacIntyre. Forget Embree - he is gone. MacIntyre was brought in as a proven HC at the Div 1 level and is paid at that level, he has been given a salary pool to hire P5 assistants. Instead of a proven coach, we have a guy who is learning on the job and is very slow in figuring things out. That is what is frustrating to me on this board - so many are content to watch this guy throw the program into a deeper pit. I was in the same boat with Bohn - he was a bad AD but everyone loved him because he was so cute when he said "Go Buffs" -
I want someone who is a significant improvement not someone from the bottom of pool.

And who would that be? All the top coaches have cushy jobs already. Why would they come to CU? You keep saying get rid of Mac. Ok smart guy. Who do you bring in?

 

[DiggerBuffs]

And who would that be? All the top coaches have cushy jobs already. Why would they come to CU? You keep saying get rid of Mac. Ok smart guy. Who do you bring in?

This argument is old and tired. How come other Power 5 schools that have had hired a non Top 5 HC are good? Because they figure out who is worth it and get those guys. Let's stop with the but a good coach won't come here crap. Plenty of good coaches are available but you have to find them. Google can help you see potential hires instead of making BnG do it for your lazy ass.

 

[Idot Buff]

This argument is old and tired. Google can help you see potential hires instead of making BnG do it for your lazy ass.

 

[vinniew_11]

This argument is old and tired. How come other Power 5 schools that have had hired a non Top 5 HC are good? Because they figure out who is worth it and get those guys. Let's stop with the but a good coach won't come here crap. Plenty of good coaches are available but you have to find them. Google can help you see potential hires instead of making BnG do it for your lazy ass.

Seriously? I can Google all I want and I'll still have zero idea of whom would be a good fit. Sure, a coordinator on a big team could be great, or fail miserably, a la Wade Phillips. Everyone is clamoring for a HC that can close in recruiting. Guess what? Those guys are at big programs. Unless you go the extreme route of hiring a guy like Chev.

And I was curious as to who he would bring in is all.

 

[patebuff]

The hell?

 

[MiamiBuffs]

Seriously? I can Google all I want and I'll still have zero idea of whom would be a good fit. Sure, a coordinator on a big team could be great, or fail miserably, a la Wade Phillips. Everyone is clamoring for a HC that can close in recruiting. Guess what? Those guys are at big programs. Unless you go the extreme route of hiring a guy like Chev.

There are a lot more Lane Kiffins out there then there are Jim Harbaughs. For awhile there Brent Venables and the Stoops brothers were hot tickets. Bo Pelini. Right now McElwain is a good dude. Charlie strong was a good dude too. Yet somehow he cant win with a team loaded with top 25 classes. Hmmm.

Personally, I say wait for Pete Carroll for to get fired because he's the ONLY sure bet left thats still out there.

 

[Duff Man]

Heh. The argument is now you need certainty to make a change.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

This is the question I posed about 4-5 pages ago. I see this as the scenario for MM returning for a 5th year, without a bowl game this season. That's why I don't agree with most poster who claim that "It's pretty simple: Bowl game = Keep, No Bowl Game = Fire". I don't believe this is a black or white situation.

Its acceptable to me if he is retained with a high value class inbound. But after that wins have to start coming because he's no longer playing with someone elses left overs. Like everyone I wish the first two years were not a wash but its too late for that now.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

Heh. The argument is now you need certainty to make a change.

Thats what you guys want. I hear it all the time. Fire for the sake of firing because thats what everyone else does. Some get worse after firing, some get better, some stay the same. Change for the sake of change is not guarantee that you will get good results.

UNLESS, you go with the sure thing.

 

[Duff Man]

I am not about firing for the sake of firing. I am about changing the way we look for a head coach.

Bohn was terrible with whatever he tried, but people still defend him for whatever reason. So yeah, I expect RG not to be ****ing stupid if he has to make a change. If that equates to "firing for the sake of firing" in your eyes, so be it.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

I am not about firing for the sake of firing. I am about changing the way we look for a head coach.

Bohn was terrible with whatever he tried, but people still defend him for whatever reason. So yeah, I expect RG not to be ****ing stupid if he has to make a change. If that equates to "firing for the sake of firing" in your eyes, so be it.

Though I encapsulated in those brief few words you know thats not what I meant. But there are many here, yourself included, that think he should be fired. I personally am on the fence because hes correcting his mistakes and recruiting is improving, a positive sign.

I dont trust Rick George to hire a coach. He has ZERO ****ing experience doing it. It doesnt mean he cant do it. But hes never done it. Which makes the likelyhood that he ****s it up higher. Just because hes good at contstruction and fund raising doesnt mean hes superman. There is a weakness in there somewhere...

 

[sackman]

And some of you guys are so invested in hating Embree that you can't get his name out of the narrative when it comes to MacIntyre. Forget Embree - he is gone. MacIntyre was brought in as a proven HC at the Div 1 level and is paid at that level, he has been given a salary pool to hire P5 assistants. Instead of a proven coach, we have a guy who is learning on the job and is very slow in figuring things out. That is what is frustrating to me on this board - so many are content to watch this guy throw the program into a deeper pit. I was in the same boat with Bohn - he was a bad AD but everyone loved him because he was so cute when he said "Go Buffs" -
I want someone who is a significant improvement not someone from the bottom of pool.

You can't objectively look at the job MM has done without acknowledging what he had to work with. So yes - MM is a huge improvement over Embree. Saying that we are in a deeper pit than when he showed up implies some kind of agenda on your part. I don't pretend to know what that agenda is, but no objective observer would ever claim that we are in worse shape today than the day MM showed up.

 

[slider]

Bohn had tons of experience hiring football coaches. Like 6 at 3 universities. All suck

 

[Duff Man]

I don't think MacIntyre should be fired. I mostly understand why he was brought back for a 4th season. I can even understand a scenario where he stays for a 5th season without a bowl game.

But I think some of the arguments for being patient are also pretty weak. 2016 will tell a lot.

 

[DiggerBuffs]

My main question for the can't make a change crowd is what if the Buffs are 4-8 again? That means they have again not improved and stayed stagnant.

 

[DiggerBuffs]

I am not about firing for the sake of firing. I am about changing the way we look for a head coach.

Bohn was terrible with whatever he tried, but people still defend him for whatever reason. So yeah, I expect RG not to be ****ing stupid if he has to make a change. If that equates to "firing for the sake of firing" in your eyes, so be it.

Bohn upon his exit interview

 

[DBT]

My main question for the can't make a change crowd is what if the Buffs are 4-8 again? That means they have again not improved and stayed stagnant.

I'd say RG will have to evaluate based on several factors including record, recruiting, direction of the program, finances, fan support, outside interest in the position, the staff, and on and on. He can't evaluate and make decisions as if he is a fan on a message board.

 

[BuffNut99]

At a minimum, MMac should be given credit for instilling a much more mentally tough and accountable culture in the program. One of the reasons why Hawkins and Embree's teams were so dysfunctional (and got inexplicably blown out) was due to a rotten-to-the-core "losing is okay" attitude from Hawkins' middle and final classes. Some of those kids were great, but the prevailing locker room mentality led to soft, indifferent teams that folded in games whenever they got hit in the mouth. MMac hasn't recruited well and some of his gameday coaching is maddening, but his teams are mentally tougher than we've had in a while.

 

[Highlander]

These past few weeks, I have been checking in much more frequently as I just have this intuition some big news is a bout to pop. Probably something more along the lines of recruiting than anything to do with MMac.