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2019 NFL Draft Thread

vinniew_11 said:
Just to be fair, Foles will probably get more than Flacco will make in the open market. Also, they can cut Flacco with no dead money if he falls on his face. Can’t do that with Foles. When looking at the big picture, Flacco is probably better for the Broncos at this moment.
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Even if for the sake of arguement (which will provably happen) Foles is the better QB?
 
DeNiro said:
Even if for the sake of arguement (which will provably happen) Foles is the better QB?
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Both are Super Bowl winners and both are Super Bowl MVPs. Flacco has been consistently mediocre or above average for much of his career, while Foles has been very inconsistent with a lot of high peaks and very low valleys. Foles is viewed as a better option by some because of regency bias, IMO.
 
TSchekler said:
Both are Super Bowl winners and both are Super Bowl MVPs. Flacco has been consistently mediocre or above average for much of his career, while Foles has been very inconsistent with a lot of high peaks and very low valleys. Foles is viewed as a better option by some because of regency bias, IMO.
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In all fairness Jeff Fischer is the QB valley. Yes I know the last couple seasons in the first stint with Philly was nothing special.

It will take the right situation/coaching staff/scheme how ever you want to paint it for either of them to be successful.

I do see Foles as a possible top 15 QB where as Flaco more top 20. Either way neither is a transcendant QB that can carry a team on their back with medicore talent around them.
 
DeNiro said:
In all fairness Jeff Fischer is the QB valley. Yes I know the last couple seasons in the first stint with Philly was nothing special.

It will take the right situation/coaching staff/scheme how ever you want to paint it for either of them to be successful.

I do see Foles as a possible top 15 QB where as Flaco more top 20. Either way neither is a transcendant QB that can carry a team on their back with medicore talent around them.
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Agree completely. I think Foles is a complete creation of Doug Pederson and the offense he completely designed around Foles for that playoff run. We’ll see
 
DeNiro said:
In all fairness Jeff Fischer is the QB valley. Yes I know the last couple seasons in the first stint with Philly was nothing special.

It will take the right situation/coaching staff/scheme how ever you want to paint it for either of them to be successful.

I do see Foles as a possible top 15 QB where as Flaco more top 20. Either way neither is a transcendant QB that can carry a team on their back with medicore talent around them.
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I posted this elsewhere, but if you like Nick Foles I have a quarterback you'll LOVE:

upload_2019-2-12_14-10-27-png.28969


Also, check this out:

upload_2019-2-28_8-55-52.png
 


Good day for him on height and hand size. But the weight doesn’t even really matter. If 207 was a good weight for him then he would have played at 207 during the season.

When is the last time a player came in taller than what the school reported?
 
TSchekler said:
Is height/weight the issue for you?
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It's a big part of it, but I also do not see his game translating to the NFL. Additionally, I don't love the idea that he has baseball to fall back on and didn't really commit to the idea of going all in on football until just recently. Add to that the fact that he is the QB with the most to gain at the combine and he is refusing to throw.
 
Gary Indiana said:
It's a big part of it, but I also do not see his game translating to the NFL. Additionally, I don't love the idea that he has baseball to fall back on and didn't really commit to the idea of going all in on football until just recently. Add to that the fact that he is the QB with the most to gain at the combine and he is refusing to throw.
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His arm talent isn't remotely in question. The most he had to gain at the Combine is done (height/weight), but I agree it's pretty lame that he won't throw. Russell Wilson also had baseball to fall back on, Elway literally told the Colts he would go play for the Yankees if they didn't trade him. Teams obviously have to get a feel for where his heart is, but almost every report about Murray is that football is his passion and it's not even close. He would have been insane not to keep the baseball option open, though.
 
TSchekler said:
His arm talent isn't remotely in question. The most he had to gain at the Combine is done (height/weight), but I agree it's pretty lame that he won't throw. Russell Wilson also had baseball to fall back on, Elway literally told the Colts he would go play for the Yankees if they didn't trade him. Teams obviously have to get a feel for where his heart is, but almost every report about Murray is that football is his passion and it's not even close. He would have been insane not to keep the baseball option open, though.
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It’s more the placement. The accuracy per say. And not the running around and making things happen. It’s the set drops and throw on time stuff people want to see.
 
TSchekler said:
His arm talent isn't remotely in question. The most he had to gain at the Combine is done (height/weight), but I agree it's pretty lame that he won't throw. Russell Wilson also had baseball to fall back on, Elway literally told the Colts he would go play for the Yankees if they didn't trade him. Teams obviously have to get a feel for where his heart is, but almost every report about Murray is that football is his passion and it's not even close. He would have been insane not to keep the baseball option open, though.
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Vinniew beat me to it. There are some questions outside of arm strength.

I see Kyler Murray having the same skillset and problem as Johnny Manziel. His game will work in flashes at the NFL level, but he'll never be consistent or a franchise QB.
 
I just thought it was weird because he would have absolutely killed it throwing this week. He is accurate, has good arm strength and there is nothing in front of him to obstruct his view. Should have just let it rip.
 
onealcd said:
I just thought it was weird because he would have absolutely killed it throwing this week. He is accurate, has good arm strength and there is nothing in front of him to obstruct his view. Should have just let it rip.
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Agreed. As a GM I want to see how the guy does with all eyes focused on him and he is throwing for a job.
 
vinniew_11 said:
It’s more the placement. The accuracy per say. And not the running around and making things happen. It’s the set drops and throw on time stuff people want to see.
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Gary Indiana said:
Vinniew beat me to it. There are some questions outside of arm strength.

I see Kyler Murray having the same skillset and problem as Johnny Manziel. His game will work in flashes at the NFL level, but he'll never be consistent or a franchise QB.
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You guys are entitled to your opinions about the kid, but I'm questioning whether or not you are making things up?


 
TSchekler said:
You guys are entitled to your opinions about the kid, but I'm questioning whether or not you are making things up?


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That's pretty misleading. That Sooner offense is overwhelmingly a lot of short to intermediate throws. If you don't believe me, check out his draft profile where scouts break it down.
https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/kyler-murray/
Arm Accuracy –Illustrates more general accuracy vs. pinpoint precision. Capable of making ample lay-up throws and has plenty of flashes to drive ball into tight window. That said, leaves too many back-shoulder throws inside or forces steep adjustments from receivers at the catch point.
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Progressions –Biggest area of inconsistency. Fully capable, moves eyes across the set and can work right to left or high to low. Too often predetermines his target, however. Guilty of staring down the barrel. Misses a lot of intermediate routes into the MOF, struggles to see over OL.
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Gary Indiana said:
That's pretty misleading. That Sooner offense is overwhelmingly a lot of short to intermediate throws. If you don't believe me, check out his draft profile where scouts break it down.
https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/kyler-murray/
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I mean, the accuracy analysis there doesn't really jive with the actual numbers or analysis from people who break down every single play, though. I think some people have a bias against him due to his physical stature and are trying really hard to find reasons beyond that to back up their narrative.
 
TSchekler said:
I mean, the accuracy analysis there doesn't really jive with the actual numbers or analysis from people who break down every single play, though. I think some people have a bias against him due to his physical stature and are trying really hard to find reasons beyond that to back up their narrative.
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You're a fan, that's fine. But I don't understand your comment about people who break down every single play. The critique I posted came from an NFL draft scout, not me. I'm pretty sure they break down the plays.

The great thing is we can each have our take, put a pin in this, and we'll find out pretty quickly who was correct.
 
sliderNcider said:
Murray is a guaranteed bust imo
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He may never be an all pro or a pro bowler, but accuracy translates well to the NFL, so his bust potential is fairly low. I think the problem that most teams have is they don't understand his ceiling. So to expand on your definition, would you consider Tannehill a bust?
 
tante said:
He may never be an all pro or a pro bowler, but accuracy translates well to the NFL, so his bust potential is fairly low. I think the problem that most teams have is they don't understand his ceiling. So to expand on your definition, would you consider Tannehill a bust?
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Yes on Tannehill.
 
Gary Indiana said:
That's pretty misleading. That Sooner offense is overwhelmingly a lot of short to intermediate throws. If you don't believe me, check out his draft profile where scouts break it down.
https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/kyler-murray/
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The second quote is where I see the problem and where I see the biggest deficiency compared to Baker Mayfield in the same offense.

If you will remember last year when people were questioning Mayfield on this site I defended him and stated that I would pick him. My reasoning was that I saw a guy who made the reads and put the ball where the receiver was open even if the guy wasn't the primary or secondary target in the pattern. Mayfield used his mobility more often that not to buy time to make a read and a throw.

Murray is still ahead of a lot of college QBs in his decision making but watching him this season I saw a guy who was much more ready to rely on his physical talents. He would make first read, second read, then take off. At the college level, especially with a guy as gifted as a runner as Murray is this is a very effective strategy and that thread opened up a lot of easy passes for him as defenders didn't want to commit to full coverage. In the NFL that doesn't work nearly as well.

Murray might still develop into a quality NFL QB but I would put his odds well below those of Mayfield.
 
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