2020 Rocky Mountain Showdown (CANCELED) at Canvas Stadium

[somebody]

Luckily Ram Fan on twitter is still in "CU is afraid to play us" mode, and hasn't let a global pandemic or decisions on a conference level get in the way of talking about it.

Edit - holy ****, those delusional mother****ers at sheepnation are discussing whether or not they'll get credit for a W because we're "forfeiting" the game.

Seems fair, I mean UCF awarded themselves a national championship.

 

[Dark Bohner]

Luckily Ram Fan on twitter is still in "CU is afraid to play us" mode, and hasn't let a global pandemic or decisions on a conference level get in the way of talking about it.

Edit - holy ****, those delusional mother****ers at sheepnation are discussing whether or not they'll get credit for a W because we're "forfeiting" the game.

It’ll be like boxing match. The ref will walk the CSU player out to midfield and lift the player’s arm announcing a win by forfeit.

They’ll wear masks of course.

 

[hokiehead]

.... sheepnation are discussing whether or not they'll get credit for a W because we're "forfeiting" the game.

that's actually an interesting question and was addressed in one of the articles I saw about the B1G cancelling non-conf play.

as I understand it, standard contracts define 'cancellation' as a team representative from one team notifying the other team they won't be playing the game within some time threshold, and a 'forfeit' is defined as when one team cancels with less than the set threshold of time remaining. We'd need to see the CU/CSU contract to verify, but presumably CU met the time limit.

for your next trivia night, the official score of a forfeit NCAA game is 1-0 (NFL is 2-0).

 

[steph]

that's actually an interesting question and was addressed in one of the articles I saw about the B1G cancelling non-conf play.

as I understand it, standard contracts define 'cancellation' as a team representative from one team notifying the other team they won't be playing the game within some time threshold, and a 'forfeit' is defined as when one team cancels with less than the set threshold of time remaining. We'd need to see the CU/CSU contract to verify, but presumably CU met the time limit.

for your next trivia night, the official score of a forfeit NCAA game is 1-0 (NFL is 2-0).

Hypothetical stupid question. If we do happen to have some kind of season, and a school messed up their contracts resulting in forfeiting 4 games. They then go undefeated in the games they do play. Are they a contender for the NC with an 8-4 record?

 

[PAC MAN]

Well those CSU and secret Nub fans will not have to worry about losing to CU this year like the last two years.

 

[Creebuzz]

Hypothetical stupid question. If we do happen to have some kind of season, and a school messed up their contracts resulting in forfeiting 4 games. They then go undefeated in the games they do play. Are they a contender for the NC with an 8-4 record?

Yes, in the SEC. No, in the PAC 12.

 

[Daaah]

Honestly, I don't care if they claim it as a W. Whatever.

 

[hokiehead]

Hypothetical stupid question. If we do happen to have some kind of season, and a school messed up their contracts resulting in forfeiting 4 games. They then go undefeated in the games they do play. Are they a contender for the NC with an 8-4 record?

those would still be four losses, so I doubt it.

assume you're primarily asking about the CFP LLC MNC -- here's their selection criteria

if you're talking about one of the polls, it's hard for me to imagine how any team would get past those four losses as well.

 

[patebuff]

Luckily Ram Fan on twitter is still in "CU is afraid to play us" mode, and hasn't let a global pandemic or decisions on a conference level get in the way of talking about it.

Edit - holy ****, those delusional mother****ers at sheepnation are discussing whether or not they'll get credit for a W because we're "forfeiting" the game.

Peak CSU to claim that as a victory

 

[Darth Snow]

Peak CSU to claim that as a victory

I hope they do. That would be hilarious and we'd get to mock them forever.

 

[Alfred91]

those would still be four losses, so I doubt it.

assume you're primarily asking about the CFP LLC MNC -- here's their selection criteria

if you're talking about one of the polls, it's hard for me to imagine how any team would get past those four losses as well.

Forfeits generally aren't decided until after the season, no?

So I would imagine that the hypothetical team would go into the selection day as a 12-0 or 13-0 team.

It seems possible that a team could win the MNC at 15-0 and then end up 11-4 if those games were determined to be forfeited. I would assume they would still be considered the MNC.

It should be noted that, although the Skippy team that had to forfeit the season is in the record books as 0-11, all other records still count the wins and losses on the field in the historical records. For example, CU beat CSU 31-21 that season. Even though CU eventually forfeited that game, it actually goes down as a win in the CU-CSU historical record.

 

[hokiehead]

Forfeits generally aren't decided until after the season, no?

So I would imagine that the hypothetical team would go into the selection day as a 12-0 or 13-0 team.

It seems possible that a team could win the MNC at 15-0 and then end up 11-4 if those games were determined to be forfeited. I would assume they would still be considered the MNC.

It should be noted that, although the Skippy team that had to forfeit the season is in the record books as 0-11, all other records still count the wins and losses on the field in the historical records. For example, CU beat CSU 31-21 that season. Even though CU eventually forfeited that game, it actually goes down as a win in the CU-CSU historical record.

when forfeits are being applied punitevly (e.g. NCAA busts a team for using an inelible player), yes -- it's at the end of the season.

however, for a "regular forfeit" (e.g. team quits mid-game or doesn't show up at all), the rules seem to suggest it's applied immediately to the standings:

If a game in progress is declared a forfeit win for one of the teams by the game officials and the game has not progressed to a “reasonable point of conclusion,” then the official game score should be recorded from the following chart. The team’s won-lost record shall include the forfeit, but if the statistics are voided, all averages in future rankings shall be computed without inclusion of the forfeited contests....

If a game in progress is declared a forfeit win for one of the teams by the game officials and the game has not progressed to a “reasonable point of conclusion,” then the official game score should be recorded from the following chart. The team’s won-lost record shall include the forfeit, but if the statistics are voided, all averages in future rankings shall be computed without inclusion of the forfeited contests.

one more wrinkle -- it appears that if the forfeit question is NOT addressed contractually, then a no-show is considered a "no contest" and not a forfeit

There is no forfeit of a contest until all participating teams are present and the referee or other appropriate contest official has assumed jurisdiction in accordance with the applicable playing rules. When a team does not appear (e.g., due to weather conditions, accidents, breakdown of vehicles, illness or catastrophic circumstances, shortage of players), a forfeit is not recorded unless the rules of the sport provide that option. An institution shall not, for statistical purposes, declare a forfeit for nonfulfillment of a contest. Such instances shall be considered as “no contest.” In circumstances involving institutions from the same conference, the league office has the option to declare a forfeit win and loss for conference-standings purposes only but this does not change an institution’s overall won-lost record. The “no contest” declaration came into effect at the start of the 1977-78 season.

link

last, we don't have many data points, but the last NCAA D1 football forfeit (vs vacancy) was Texas A&M in 1998, and they declared the forfeit a week after the game, not at end of season.

 

[ZandiBuff]

Luckily Ram Fan on twitter is still in "CU is afraid to play us" mode, and hasn't let a global pandemic or decisions on a conference level get in the way of talking about it.

Edit - holy ****, those delusional mother****ers at sheepnation are discussing whether or not they'll get credit for a W because we're "forfeiting" the game.

I'm not even sure they can win a forfeit

 

[Denver_sc]

I hope they do. That would be hilarious and we'd get to mock them forever.

Oh my god can you even imagine what it will be like when CU beats them in 2023 and 2024 and then they’ll have to look in the mirror and know that the only time they “won” in a 10 year stretch was when CUs conference decided that CU couldn’t play that game in the face of a pandemic

 

[manhattanbuff]

Given the lack of sports content, this would be a PR disaster for csu. Headline on SportsCenter: “colorado state sues to count the Colorado game as a forfeit win even though the game was cancelled due to global pandemic.”

 

[Not Sure]

I hope they do. That would be hilarious and we'd get to mock them forever.

Wait, we can’t do that already?

 

[Darth Snow]

Wait, we can’t do that already?

Well, we could do it more!

 

[ahoelsken]

Oh my god can you even imagine what it will be like when CU beats them in 2023 and 2024 and then they’ll have to look in the mirror and know that the only time they “won” in a 10 year stretch was when CUs conference decided that CU couldn’t play that game in the face of a pandemic

The only thing funnier than that idea is them talking about suing the Pac 12 over losing their CU/Oregon State games. Thankfully they don't have a law school that I know of-I've got this vision of the Rammies (the state of Colorado) attempting to sue CU (also the state of Colorado) and the Pac 12 so they can pay us a million bucks to come up there and beat them by 20 or 30 again. Whatever profit (if any) they'd be making from that jaunt to Corvallis was probably going to be part of our million dollar payday to go up there anyhow.

 

[BUFFjunkie]

Keeler: Can CSU Rams survive losing 2020 Rocky Mountain Showdown?

 

[patebuff]

I guess the medias idea that this was financially driven is thrown out the window. Ultimately, without fans, CSU would have taken a massive hit financially. More than likely the pac 12 did CSU a favor.

 

[manhattanbuff]

I guess the media idea that this was financially driven is thrown out the window. Ultimately, without fans, CSU would have taken a massive hit financially. More than likely the pac 12 did CSU a favor.

Euthanasia?

 

[leftybuff]

I guess the medias idea that this was financially driven is thrown out the window. Ultimately, without fans, CSU would have taken a massive hit financially. More than likely the pac 12 did CSU a favor.

It did not receive support because the rest of the conference is not dragging around a wannabe little brother.

 

[dwyermj]

It did not receive support because the rest of the conference is not dragging around a wannabe little brother.

Yeah but wouldn't it have been awesome if it did get support and we kept the game with aTm.

 

[leftybuff]

Yeah but wouldn't it have been awesome if it did get support and we kept the game with aTm.

We could float a kayak on the river of goat tears if that happened.....

 

[somebody]

I guess the medias idea that this was financially driven is thrown out the window. Ultimately, without fans, CSU would have taken a massive hit financially. More than likely the pac 12 did CSU a favor.

Does he know our +1 would have been A&M?

 

[MtnBuff]

The whole piece was a Jack Graham fantasy episode.

Graham got fired but he is still CSU to the core, he played there, he was one of their leading boosters, he took a cut in pay to be their AD.

He is right about one thing. There is no future for schools to remain mid-majors, the finances for them aren't good in the best of times and even without C-19 would be continuing to get worse.

What he (and others like him) can't or won't accept is that the P5 ship has sailed for CSU. Despite their arguments about being a quality university (which they are) in a growing market area with a brand new stadium they simply don't make sense for a P5 conference addition.

The same reason they need the P5 conference invite is the reason they won't get one, revenue. Add them to any P5 conference and they would eventually be expecting and getting a full share payout. To see if that makes sense simply take one extra share out of the conference payouts to existing schools then see if CSU (or any other prospective new member) adds at least that amount of revenue to the conference. In other words when adding a new school to the conference do the existing schools make more money or less because of the addition

CSU is not a school that drives TV ratings, they don't draw well at home or on the road. They aren't going to generate enough money for the conference to make up for what they get paid, probably not even close.

With the changing nature of college football, with additional payouts to the athletes, with higher salaries for coaches, with the potential or probability of paying for at least health insurance for players past their playing careers, and other factors schools like CSU are simply not going to be able to keep up.

They can though look forward to having one of the nicest stadiums in FCS at some point in the future.

 

[Creebuzz]

The state of Colorado cannot support two teams in the P5. It won’t cover the revenue split for either the PAC 12 or the Big 12 to add another team; therefore, there is no path to an invite ever for CSU.

Look at Boise State. All they have done is win and win. Current pathway into P5? None.

 

[Not Sure]

The state of Colorado cannot support two teams in the P5. It won’t cover the revenue split for either the PAC 12 or the Big 12 to add another team; therefore, there is no path to an invite ever for CSU.

Look at Boise State. All they have done is win and win. Current pathway into P5? None.

Ehhhhh, I don’t agree. The problem isn’t the state of Colorado. It’s the state of Colorado State. Between Ft Collins, Loveland, Windsor and Greeley, there’s 400,000 people and that number is growing rapidly. The Denver Metro area has 3.5 million people. That’s also growing rapidly. It’s more a problem that none of those folks give a damn about CSU athletics and aren’t willing to support it.

 

[MtnBuff]

Ehhhhh, I don’t agree. The problem isn’t the state of Colorado. It’s the state of Colorado State. Between Ft Collins, Loveland, Windsor and Greeley, there’s 400,000 people and that number is growing rapidly. The Denver Metro area has 3.5 million people. That’s also growing rapidly. It’s more a problem that none of those folks give a damn about CSU athletics and aren’t willing to support it.

Yup, the problem is not Colorado, it is CSU.

CSU has a lot of Alums in the Denver Metro area but they just aren't interested in driving up. CSU has very little appeal for the non-alums. Probably more Bronco season ticket holders in that northern front range region than CSU season ticket holders.

And sadly there may be more fusker fans in that area than sheep fans.

 

[Creebuzz]

Ehhhhh, I don’t agree. The problem isn’t the state of Colorado. It’s the state of Colorado State. Between Ft Collins, Loveland, Windsor and Greeley, there’s 400,000 people and that number is growing rapidly. The Denver Metro area has 3.5 million people. That’s also growing rapidly. It’s more a problem that none of those folks give a damn about CSU athletics and aren’t willing to support it.

I’m looking at it from the perspective of a conference president trying to add eyeballs and TV dollars. The states of Oklahoma, Iowa, Kansas, etc. shouldn’t have two teams either, but luck of history. In the article, Jack Graham posited that if CSU started winning, an invite to the big boy table would happen. I don’t think that’s true. I don’t see any pathway for CSU. None. They need to give up.

Going further, I believe football is becoming a regional sport dominated by the south. There are major threats in there for everyone out west, some of which have already manifested to one degree or another.