25-26 MBB Futurescaping

[Buffnik]

Tad always seems to make an argument for one more year. Last year it was the NBA draft choices and tourney visit (too brief). This year it's that he has a solid recruiting class coming. Didn't he last year too? As now see, Freshman rarely move the needle unless they're one & done guys.

I'm grateful for what Boyle has brought to this program - respectability and some really fun teams and players. But we've seen his best, and nobody realistically expects that to happen anytime soon.

Bottom line, are we fine with a tourney appearance every 3-4 years, but never expecting anything better than that? Not speaking for anyone else but myself, but NO.

PS, my opinion hasn't changed since Joe Harrington was hired. Sadly, neither has CU's self-loathing - "We don't deserve better, so why raise expectations?"

Among the 16 teams in the Big 12, where would you rank CU for amount of GAF about MBB?

For perspective, I was talking to a work client who described himself as a casual fan and minor booster for his home state Kentucky Wildcats. I made a comment to him that I was so impressed with their arena the last time I had seen it on tv. That it was an absolute basketball Mecca showpiece. His response was, "Yeah, but we're falling behind. LSU and Arkansas now have new and better practice facilities."

There are programs like that whose fans know where they stack up on every measure of bragging rights (wins, championships, tourney performance, coaching pay, facilities, fan amenities, recruiting, etc). It's an important part of the pride and self-identity for hundreds of thousands of people.

There are programs like KU and UA in our conference which are like that and a bunch of others which approach that level. They care so much more than CU folks that it's probably hard for CU folks to relate to it and comprehend that level of GAF.

We might very well be 16th out of 16.

It's also not like we're located somewhere like Chicago with a ton of local talent or have a historical program prestige which can offset some of that.

So to get what you're talking about, it probably takes a combination of the university deciding that MBB success is a vital component of driving the success of the school's mission -and- hiring a HC who is pretty elite or even a miracle worker. And that needs to happen for years like we have seen with Gonzaga & Few.

Given all that, when I look at what Tad has accomplished over his tenure I kind of see him as a miracle worker. And right now I feel like the rules changed so that the lane he was able to find which allowed him to achieve what he has at CU despite everything - that this lane has closed and he's frustrated as hell because he doesn't have the resources or support to overcome it.

So I really don't know who we could possibly hire to outcompete all these programs who are better resourced, better situated and have a higher level of GAF. And if we find that guy, we're probably looking for a replacement in 1-3 years.

 

[hokiehead]

I had slim hope that Colorado sports fans would get more interested in college hoops, and college sports in general, after NIL.

This was based on the notion that CO fans like professional players, and would extend that to college players once they were getting paid. That doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[BuffDog]

Among the 16 teams in the Big 12, where would you rank CU for amount of GAF about MBB?

For perspective, I was talking to a work client who described himself as a casual fan and minor booster for his home state Kentucky Wildcats. I made a comment to him that I was so impressed with their arena the last time I had seen it on tv. That it was an absolute basketball Mecca showpiece. His response was, "Yeah, but we're falling behind. LSU and Arkansas now have new and better practice facilities."

There are programs like that whose fans know where they stack up on every measure of bragging rights (wins, championships, tourney performance, coaching pay, facilities, fan amenities, recruiting, etc). It's an important part of the pride and self-identity for hundreds of thousands of people.

There are programs like KU and UA in our conference which are like that and a bunch of others which approach that level. They care so much more than CU folks that it's probably hard for CU folks to relate to it and comprehend that level of GAF.

We might very well be 16th out of 16.

It's also not like we're located somewhere like Chicago with a ton of local talent or have a historical program prestige which can offset some of that.

So to get what you're talking about, it probably takes a combination of the university deciding that MBB success is a vital component of driving the success of the school's mission -and- hiring a HC who is pretty elite or even a miracle worker. And that needs to happen for years like we have seen with Gonzaga & Few.

Given all that, when I look at what Tad has accomplished over his tenure I kind of see him as a miracle worker. And right now I feel like the rules changed so that the lane he was able to find which allowed him to achieve what he has at CU despite everything - that this lane has closed and he's frustrated as hell because he doesn't have the resources or support to overcome it.

So I really don't know who we could possibly hire to outcompete all these programs who are better resourced, better situated and has a higher level of GAF. And if we find that guy, we're probably looking for a replacement in 1-3 years.

When they win and are competitive people show up. Was surprised how many made the last game.

 

[Da Lama]

Among the 16 teams in the Big 12, where would you rank CU for amount of GAF about MBB?

For perspective, I was talking to a work client who described himself as a casual fan and minor booster for his home state Kentucky Wildcats. I made a comment to him that I was so impressed with their arena the last time I had seen it on tv. That it was an absolute basketball Mecca showpiece. His response was, "Yeah, but we're falling behind. LSU and Arkansas now have new and better practice facilities."

There are programs like that whose fans know where they stack up on every measure of bragging rights (wins, championships, tourney performance, coaching pay, facilities, fan amenities, recruiting, etc). It's an important part of the pride and self-identity for hundreds of thousands of people.

There are programs like KU and UA in our conference which are like that and a bunch of others which approach that level. They care so much more than CU folks that it's probably hard for CU folks to relate to it and comprehend that level of GAF.

We might very well be 16th out of 16.

It's also not like we're located somewhere like Chicago with a ton of local talent or have a historical program prestige which can offset some of that.

So to get what you're talking about, it probably takes a combination of the university deciding that MBB success is a vital component of driving the success of the school's mission -and- hiring a HC who is pretty elite or even a miracle worker. And that needs to happen for years like we have seen with Gonzaga & Few.

Given all that, when I look at what Tad has accomplished over his tenure I kind of see him as a miracle worker. And right now I feel like the rules changed so that the lane he was able to find which allowed him to achieve what he has at CU despite everything - that this lane has closed and he's frustrated as hell because he doesn't have the resources or support to overcome it.

So I really don't know who we could possibly hire to outcompete all these programs who are better resourced, better situated and has a higher level of GAF. And if we find that guy, we're probably looking for a replacement in 1-3 years.

So, does a program like Utah State GAF? How about VCU? St. Mary's? Stanford? Utah? Boise State? USanFran? None of them have the "cache" we have, yet they seem to have equal/better programs than ours with less money, recognition, fans, recruiting bases, etc... Not picking a fight, but wondering why we can't at least go 18-12 or better every year with what we've got.

 

[Buffnik]

So, does a program like Utah State GAF? How about VCU? St. Mary's? Stanford? Utah? Boise State? USanFran? None of them have the "cache" we have, yet they seem to have equal/better programs than ours with less money, recognition, fans, recruiting bases, etc... Not picking a fight, but wondering why we can't at least go 18-12 or better every year with what we've got.

Utah State is a great example. They GAF. Great fans. Great student section. University cares and does what it can. So they win and have a great atmosphere. But they're also on like their 3rd coach in 4 years because they don't have the resources to keep a HC and they're one bad hire from disaster. They're living on the edge.

So much comes down to how much the stakeholders care. Those places you mentioned care a lot more than we do. They're a lot more engaged in good years and bad. That is more important than resources - otherwise Cal would have an elite basketball program. But their lack of resources lowers their ceiling. I believe that our lack of GAF lowers our ceiling just as much, but also lowers our floor. Worse, since we're in a stacked basketball conference of programs that have at least the resources we do with a lot more GAF, we have over 2/3 of our games against those types of programs. Carving a consistent 18-12 out of that is a hell of a lot harder than doing so in the MWC or WCC.

P.S. Utah and Stanford are struggling badly in a similar competitive situation to ours. But with much better basketball traditions, they're better on hoops culture. They're both just 1 good hire away from another Final Four run, imo. CU has never been that type of program and there's no one saying "We need to get back to what it was like under Majeras and your job as AD is in jeopardy until you figure it out."

 

[Buffnik]

When they win and are competitive people show up. Was surprised how many made the last game.

That perception illustrates the problem. People never showed up like they do at a school with GAF stakeholders. We never came close to selling out a home slate or season ticket allotment. And that's with an arena size that would be middle of the MWC and ticket prices that KU fans see as so reasonable they'll buy a season ticket package despite no secondary market so that they can see KU play 1 time.

 

[MaybeaBuff]

Since this season is basically done and dusted, let's discuss what the future might look like.

Projected Roster (as of 1.29.25)
RJ Smith, 6-4 (Jr)
Seb Rancik, 6-9 (So)
Bangot Dak, 6-11 (Jr)
Javon Ruffin, 6-4 (Sr)
Courtney Anderson, 6-5 (So)
Felix Kossaras, 6-4 (So)
Harrison Carrington, 6-8 (Jr)
Assan Diop, 6-8 (Jr)
Andrew Crawford, 6-5 (RsFr)
Josiah Sanders, 6-3 (Fr)
Jalin Holland, 6-4 (Fr)
Tacko Fawasz, 6-10 (Fr)
Ian Inman, 6-5 (Fr)
Isaiah Johnson, 6-1 (Fr)

Transfer candidates
Dak, Rancik (poached)
Diop, Smith (choice)
Anderson (forced)

You left out a couple possibilities
Malone will probably be back. See the Pavia ruling. He has at least 1 year left, maybe 2.

Also Hammond, Jakimovski, and Baskin may be on the table.

Wisconsin player files lawsuit against NCAA over Division II eligibility

Wisconsin cornerback Nyzier Fourqurean is arguing for an extra year of eligibility, filing a lawsuit against the NCAA.

www.on3.com

 

[Scotch]

That perception illustrates the problem. People never showed up like they do at a school with GAF stakeholders. We never came close to selling out a home slats or season ticket allotment. And that's with an arena size that would be middle of the MWC and ticket prices that KU fans see as so reasonable they'll buy a season ticket package despite no secondary market so that they can see KU play 1 time.

I would argue we don't have to have the level of GAF others have to compete and be successful in the Big 12 and nationally. But with this new conference and NIL institional support does need to increase.

 

[Preston Slaughter]

After last season Tad admitted he did guys like Dak and Diop dirty by not playing them much. He's doing the same thing again season. You gotta learn at some point.

Dak's talent was obvious almost immediately. I remember complaining that he didn't get more playing time early in the season when we inexplicably would keep our starters in well into garbage time.
I think we would have beaten Marquette in the tournament if Dak had been allowed to develop more during the season.

 

[hokiehead]

My answer to "how much GAF do CU fans have?" was answered with a deafening roar by fans advocating that a coach on the precipice of a winless conference season get another year.

And some of those voices are among the biggest supporters this team has, at least on this board.

 

[Buffnik]

My answer to "how much GAF do CU fans have?" was answered with a deafening roar by fans advocating that a coach on the precipice of a winless conference season get another year.

And some of those voices are among the biggest supporters this team has, at least on this board.

If I thought there was a plan, commitment and will to have a great program and full arena from anyone other than Tad for the past decade+, I would be receptive to #FireTad.

 

[Da Lama]

If I thought there was a plan, commitment and will to have a great program and full arena from anyone other than Tad for the past decade+, I would be receptive to #FireTad.

You left out a couple possibilities
Malone will probably be back. See the Pavia ruling. He has at least 1 year left, maybe 2.

Also Hammond, Jakimovski, and Baskin may be on the table.

Wisconsin player files lawsuit against NCAA over Division II eligibility

Wisconsin cornerback Nyzier Fourqurean is arguing for an extra year of eligibility, filing a lawsuit against the NCAA.

www.on3.com

Keeping all, or any combination of that 4 would be a disaster. It would also almost guarantee Dak, Diop and Rancik leave. I think if Hammond and Jak get extra years they won't be spending them here. Hammond can put some good money in his pocket elsewhere after the season he's having, and Jak looks like he's regretting his decision to come here every time he steps on the court. This board knows my feelings on Malone (complete bust). I'd take Baskin for another year - perfect glue guy.

 

[Da Lama]

If I thought there was a plan, commitment and will to have a great program and full arena from anyone other than Tad for the past decade+, I would be receptive to #FireTad.

Soooo, FU Rick George?

 

[hokiehead]

If I thought there was a plan, commitment and will to have a great program and full arena from anyone other than Tad for the past decade+, I would be receptive to #FireTad.

I get that. And I still believe that giving a coach a pass on a winless season says a lot about the level of GAF.

I'm sure HCDS won't ever comment on this publicly, and I definitely wouldn't want him to do so, but I'd love to know his thoughts on the subject.

And I admit my perception is skewed by emotion. I'm not just disappointed, I'm livid over what's happening rn with the basketball team.

 

[hokiehead]

Soooo, FU Rick George?

I haven't piled on RG to this point, but, yeah, accountability for this debacle shouldn't stop at the HC.

I'm disappointed in how CU invests in hoops, disappointed in how they market basketball, disappointed in scheduling, disappointed in lack of upgrades to the arena.

And I'm disappointed in fan support, both students and the general public.

and I still acknowledge this is skewed by emotion right now, but I would also likely reach those same conclusions in a lucid state.

**** this season of MBB.

 

[Denver_sc]

What's the argument for bringing Boyle back next year if he wants to keep his job? I don't think a conference championship from 12 years ago gives him a pass on this.

I'm trying to look at it unbiased and not seeing one.

Because RG barely cares about the basketball program and is absolutely ****ing not putting $10M into the program just to fire a coach. As Nik says, RG doesn't care enough to put together a plan to make CU relevant, which is why he won't fire Tad.

 

[Buffnik]

Soooo, FU Rick George?

Yes. But as much as I love basketball and care more about that program, I accept that football is the driver of everything and what will determine whether CU successfully navigates the current risks/ uncertainties of being a P4 program which isn't in the B1G or SEC. It's so important that everything else is pragmatically irrelevant, so I don't necessarily disagree with RG putting almost all bandwidth and resources into football - it just sucks.

 

[buffgal]

Bohn cared enough to get the students to the Pac 12 tournament.

Seems RG took everything away from the students and doesn't care about the sport of basketball. The CEC was built in 1979. It wasn't state of the art then. This many years later, it has to be down near the bottom as far as a facility. Look how long it took to get an overhead video board. For so many years we were told all kinds of excuses.

RG isn't going to spend money on basketball. He got lucky with JR Payne. Now to keep her.

 

[Da Lama]

Yes. But as much as I love basketball and care more about that program, I accept that football is the driver of everything and what will determine whether CU successfully navigates the current risks/ uncertainties of being a P4 program which isn't in the B1G or SEC. It's so important that everything else is pragmatically irrelevant, so I don't necessarily disagree with RG putting almost all bandwidth and resources into football - it just sucks.

Agreed. We're back to being 90% a football school and I also have no problem with that. That said, I wish Tad would take it upon himself to evolve. Both on and off the court. That's my biggest frustration at this point, I guess. It feels like he sees what's going on both on campus and across the country and just shrugs his shoulders and digs in his heels. Even with RG not giving a sh!t about the program, we shouldn't be having a season like this. That's completely on Tad as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Goose]

Yes. But as much as I love basketball and care more about that program, I accept that football is the driver of everything and what will determine whether CU successfully navigates the current risks/ uncertainties of being a P4 program which isn't in the B1G or SEC. It's so important that everything else is pragmatically irrelevant, so I don't necessarily disagree with RG putting almost all bandwidth and resources into football - it just sucks.

This is a simple fact, but the problem I have - and have voiced repeatedly - is that RG is ignoring the easy wins. The dismantling of C-Unit was ****ing asinine. The continued lack of going out of his way to ignore the basics. The apathy. Football drives the school. Football drives the AD. Not even the most hardcore hoops fans would ever argue this. But it's absolutely maddening that he actively dismantled things that were helping hoops.

 

[hokiehead]

This is a simple fact, but the problem I have - and have voiced repeatedly - is that RG is ignoring the easy wins. The dismantling of C-Unit was ****ing asinine. The continued lack of going out of his way to ignore the basics. The apathy. Football drives the school. Football drives the AD. Not even the most hardcore hoops fans would ever argue this. But it's absolutely maddening that he actively dismantled things that were helping hoops.

asking b/c I know you have way deeper knowledge than me, was it really a dismantling or just allowing those things to decay due to neglect?

 

[ZandiBuff]

You assume that RG wouldn't just promote Manning

I don’t know why I never thought about that hire potentially being Tad handpicking his replacement. I could see it.

Absolute disaster of an idea. Other than the name, what has he brought to this team?

What's the argument for bringing Boyle back next year if he wants to keep his job? I don't think a conference championship from 12 years ago gives him a pass on this.

I'm trying to look at it unbiased and not seeing one.

$8 million arguments

The argument is RG doesn't want the hassle of having to deal with a program he doesn't give a rat's a$$ about. That's why Tad will most certainly be here in 25-26 if he chooses to be. Some pretty good young talent is on the way, but I'm not sure I trust Tad to play it and/or get the most out of it next season. I'm also very worried he'll be able to keep the little talent we have currently. Either way, I imagine 25-26 will look a lot like 24-25.

You left out a couple possibilities
Malone will probably be back. See the Pavia ruling. He has at least 1 year left, maybe 2.

Also Hammond, Jakimovski, and Baskin may be on the table.

Wisconsin player files lawsuit against NCAA over Division II eligibility

Wisconsin cornerback Nyzier Fourqurean is arguing for an extra year of eligibility, filing a lawsuit against the NCAA.

www.on3.com

This is the absolute worst case scenario. Luckily, Tad also doesn't keep graduating players that have played here multiple years, so Hammond probably leaves. Jak is hard to say, no one is going to pay for him after this year. I am probably lower on Baskin than most here - dude still thinks he's a post player, which often ruins any semblance (not that there is much) of the motion in the offense.

If dollar store Lampkin comes back next year and sees the court for more than 3 minutes a game, we're furked.

 

[SewallBeach]

Absolute disaster of an idea. Other than the name, what has he brought to this team?

I'm not saying it's a good idea, I'm saying I could see it happen.

 

[Not Sure]

Bottom line, are we fine with a tourney appearance every 3-4 years, but never expecting anything better than that?

Considering what this program was for the 100 or so years before Tad got here, yes. I'm thrilled with it. RG has made it clear that there's only room for one major program at CU, and that's the football program. If the hoops program does well from time to time, that's gravy. He's not going to do anything special to improve the program, though.

 

[Scotch]

This is a simple fact, but the problem I have - and have voiced repeatedly - is that RG is ignoring the easy wins. The dismantling of C-Unit was ****ing asinine. The continued lack of going out of his way to ignore the basics. The apathy. Football drives the school. Football drives the AD. Not even the most hardcore hoops fans would ever argue this. But it's absolutely maddening that he actively dismantled things that were helping hoops.

 

[MaybeaBuff]

Absolute disaster of an idea. Other than the name, what has he brought to this team?


$8 million arguments




This is the absolute worst case scenario. Luckily, Tad also doesn't keep graduating players that have played here multiple years, so Hammond probably leaves. Jak is hard to say, no one is going to pay for him after this year. I am probably lower on Baskin than most here - dude still thinks he's a post player, which often ruins any semblance (not that there is much) of the motion in the offense.

If dollar store Lampkin comes back next year and sees the court for more than 3 minutes a game, we're furked.

You also seem to think Baskin has any say so where he plays. I think he’s probably in the block because Tad makes him go there.

 

[Denver_sc]

Agreed. We're back to being 90% a football school and I also have no problem with that. That said, I wish Tad would take it upon himself to evolve. Both on and off the court. That's my biggest frustration at this point, I guess. It feels like he sees what's going on both on campus and across the country and just shrugs his shoulders and digs in his heels. Even with RG not giving a sh!t about the program, we shouldn't be having a season like this. That's completely on Tad as far as I'm concerned.

The biggest issue I see is that Tad is an old school “coach ‘em up” believer, which is nearly incompatible with the new world of NIL and unlimited transfers. It would be great if he evolved but I’m not holding my breath.

As I’ve mentioned elsewhere, Tad has given enough to the program that I’m fine with him having the job as long as he wants it, but if he decides to hang it up I hope that RG goes all in with a “Jimmys and Joes” recruiter type coach.

 

[Bisonic]

Considering what this program was for the 100 or so years before Tad got here, yes. I'm thrilled with it. RG has made it clear that there's only room for one major program at CU, and that's the football program. If the hoops program does well from time to time, that's gravy. He's not going to do anything special to improve the program, though.

It is possible for basketball programs to be in the black. If George isn't trying to get us there, he's not fit for the job. My hunch is that he's up for the challenge and is fed up with mediocrity.

On your other point about "pre-Tad", we had some awful stretches but we also had some good ones too. I've seen a lot of them since I started attending in the late 70s. We just were never able to build on good stretches, for various reasons. (Admissions standards were always a challenge here.)

Tad is a solid coach but no messiah. To think we can't do better is just absurd.

 

[Not Sure]

It is possible for basketball programs to be in the black. If George isn't trying to get us there, he's not fit for the job. My hunch is that he's up for the challenge and is fed up with mediocrity.

On your other point about "pre-Tad", we had some awful stretches but we also had some good ones too. I've seen a lot of them since I started attending in the late 70s. We just were never able to build on good stretches, for various reasons. (Admissions standards were always a challenge here.)

Tad is a solid coach but no messiah. To think we can't do better is just absurd.

I’m sure we can do better. Thing is, we have never in the history of the program ever done better. He may not be the messiah, but he is firmly ensconced on the Mt Rushmore of CU hoops. You don’t fire that guy. You let him leave in his terms.

 

[hokiehead]

I’m sure we can do better. Thing is, we have never in the history of the program ever done better. He may not be the messiah, but he is firmly ensconced on the Mt Rushmore of CU hoops. You don’t fire that guy. You let him leave in his terms.

Is there a line, though?

If we go winless in conference?
If he doesn't make notable roster improvements through the portal this coming off-season?
If we have back to back years like this?