@Goose this is what I meant.
I'm going to enjoy rooting against not only the Nubs but Texas, Ohio State, U$C, and Michigan State for this time being.
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Build Rick George a Statue (was #fireRickGeorge)
- Thread starter ZandiBuff
- Start date
@Goose this is what I meant.
I'm going to enjoy rooting against not only the Nubs but Texas, Ohio State, U$C, and Michigan State for this time being.
Not a bad option given the state of the football program.
He knows not of what suffering our smited peoples endured in the dark times.
Funny thing right now is that CU is looking like it's in damn good shape in every sport other than football.
Do I give RG credit for that?
Or do I look at it as RG deciding that nothing except football matters so the other sports are succeeding because CU isn't a hard place to win when there's a decent coach in place and no one getting in their way?
Do I give RG credit for that?
Or do I look at it as RG deciding that nothing except football matters so the other sports are succeeding because CU isn't a hard place to win when there's a decent coach in place and no one getting in their way?
I think it shows RG has the ability to put the right people in place under the right circumstances. It also begs the question of whether you risk firing a guy who has every sport except football performing at a high level in order to take a chance on hiring a guy who *might* fix football, but also might kill the other sports.
CU IT guy
Well-Known Member
Every single one of those other 'successful' sport head coaches came here before RG did. Boyle is here because he wants to be and wasn't a RG hire, Sanchez from women's soccer was hired the year before RG showed up, and Wetmore has been around for 25 plus years. The only thing RG has to do with those programs success is that he's managed NOT to chase those coaches off. So I think you're onto something with the second premise, fair amount of supporting evidence.
RG has been a success executive in a variety of different positions.
I would like to see what he can do with football given bosses who actually want to win and are willing to provide the support to do it.
We should keep in mind that we blamed a lot of failure on Mike Bohn certain that he couldn't do the job. All he did was put Cincinnati in position to go the playoff then go to USC and bring in Mike Riley and move them to the B1G.
To me the most frustrating thing about CU football is that historically when given administrative support we are one of the top 25-35 programs in the country with the ability to occasionally contend for the top 10.
I would like to see what he can do with football given bosses who actually want to win and are willing to provide the support to do it.
We should keep in mind that we blamed a lot of failure on Mike Bohn certain that he couldn't do the job. All he did was put Cincinnati in position to go the playoff then go to USC and bring in Mike Riley and move them to the B1G.
To me the most frustrating thing about CU football is that historically when given administrative support we are one of the top 25-35 programs in the country with the ability to occasionally contend for the top 10.
Rick George cannot be gone soon enough. He quit advocating internally and externally for the football after Tucker left. He knew Tucker was not playing by the book for CU (which is an impossible standard for major college football) and had an interlude of sorts, if you know what I mean. RG folded like a cheap suit in the rain to protect his own job. He also won’t hesitate to throw Dorrell under the bus, if he think it helps him keep making $ 1mm per year as AD.
I agree that he should fight for what he knows he needs to succeed, or honestly quit in protest and go get another job where he can do what he needs to.
Remember when RG had a roadmap to getting back to championship football? In his earlier years of his CU tenure, it was front and center with all the AD communication being sent out to alums and boosters. Then, it vaporized like it never existed. I'd love for the press to remind him of that and ask him how he thinks CU is doing to that end.
Many donors remember. The old folks are just happy getting hoodwinked.
RG, like MB before him, was forced to accept that he had a damn good gig and that all he could do is work within the constraints of what his bosses allow, trying to make the best of things within those limitations. I think most of us know what's that like in our work lives when we don't have dynamic leadership setting our corporate culture and goals.
Sure, there are clear limitations at CU.
But that still does not explain the overall timeline of the Dorrell hire. To go from Sark, a pretty bold/well-known candidate with plenty of baggage, to Dorell is not easily explained away by the CU dysfunction. We didn't even get the benefit of CU going cheap with Dorrell.
But that still does not explain the overall timeline of the Dorrell hire. To go from Sark, a pretty bold/well-known candidate with plenty of baggage, to Dorell is not easily explained away by the CU dysfunction. We didn't even get the benefit of CU going cheap with Dorrell.
The job of a successful Athletic Director is to convince your bosses of the value of a robust Athletic Department AND fundraise like hell to pay for it. There are limits, but to absolve George of his shortcomings in contracts, his pivotal role in the Tucker debacle, and inability to develope a solid infrastructure for the department (which are all squarely on him) is wrong.
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I've been trying so hard to understand the hire.
In context, we had RG firing MacIntyre for being a coach who would be stable and mediocre with the occasional good season.
He wanted someone who would build a champion at CU.
OK.
So he was looking at Ryan Day, who ended up getting promoted at Ohio State when Urban unexpectedly left. He was also looking at Mel Tucker, who we were able to hire. Definitely a blueprint there of looking for someone from a championship program to bring that culture to CU.
Then, when Dantonio was unexpectedly gone from Michigan State after signing day, we lost Tucker. RG immediately turned to the same blueprint, had some long talks with Bieniemy, and ultimately tried to hire Sarkisian from Alabama.
That fell through and he turned to Karl Dorrell.
How the fvck does that happen? What changed? These are the questions that have been driving us all crazy for 3 years.
My theory is that there were some recruiting practices under MT that RG was taking heat over and forced him to roll back some of the aggressiveness. Particularly since he'd lost MT at least in part over not being able to fulfill promises made to him on admissions and general administrative support.
Then, he heard this stuff reinforced by EB and Sark over what they would expect in order to feel like they could win at CU and knew he could not deliver.
Beyond that, he was constrained on budget and the long-term contracts he had in place. He was having to tell HC candidates that he'd have to go through at least his first year with Summers as DC and Chieverini as OC. Not a lot of guys are going to leave good situations to become the CU HC under that set of circumstances.
So, RG went with a stability approach. He definitely wanted someone who would stick at CU for years. It was something he valued with the MT hire and was naive enough to get blindsided there. It was going to be the 3rd HC in 3 years at a program that had seen the most HC turnover in the conference since we joined. At the end of the day, I think this was jumping in with both feet on stability and picking a guy who would be supported by the Bill Mac loyalist boosters. I'd also guess that KD being African-American was a bonus if he was committing to stability since it was a definite negative mark that CU had recently had 2 black HCs who lasted a combined 3 years and that was a narrative that needed to be removed. Finally, I think someone who knew CU and was willing to accept the reality of the situation that RG had lost the fight over plus would be willing to accept a staff being forced upon him, was the clincher. "All in" from RG meant giving KD a contract that forced stability for a minimum of 3 years (complete dumpster fire) and probably 4 or 5 if things didn't completely tank.
Not absolving. Figuring out the context and reasons for behavior and decisions is not excusing the behavior and decisions.
One other point, I think RG was looking at budget when he signed KD to a contract which forced stability. It basically timed out to get CU through until the new 2024 media deal would be kicking in and there would be more resources. That part of the plan, if it was part of the thinking, took a major kick to the balls this offseason with the USC/UCLA news and the very uncertain future of the Pac-12.
Fogo
Well-Known Member
Not absolving is correct, and you aren't. Everyone is forgetting one huge accomplishment. RG was able to fund raise and bring the Champions Center to life, something Bohn could not do. The whole department, especially the coaching staffs, could not use this to their advantage when we were actually leaders in something for once is one of the biggest failures in the history of CU football.. It was a huge investment in the program, which we all now are screaming for, and led CU to almost no results.
As far as MT goes, and saying the RG could not keep his promises, I take that as a possibility, but not necessarily facts. I think MT didn't do his due diligence before taking the job. Wasn't it MT that accepted the job before he had even been to Boulder? If true, that's a tell.
I agree with most of what everyone is saying about RG and the CU administration, but we'd be remiss to not include a big success in there too.
I’m kinda tired of the narrative that RG is handcuffed.
someone who is successful and cares about their job as an AD would do one of two things if they are being handcuffed by their superiors.
1) like Manhattan mentioned above they convince their superiors they need to be let loose to work on building championship programs to the best of their ability because it will benefit everyone at the university. They also need to do the best that they can within their restraints until they are allowed to run an effective department. RG has clearly not done either because he settled for KD. Settling for KD is giving up on convincing your superiors AND not doing the best he can within his restraints.
2) take a job at a different institution where they will let you run the AD with championship goals.
someone who is a successful and legit AD wouldn’t be satisfied with mailing it in like RG has
someone who is successful and cares about their job as an AD would do one of two things if they are being handcuffed by their superiors.
1) like Manhattan mentioned above they convince their superiors they need to be let loose to work on building championship programs to the best of their ability because it will benefit everyone at the university. They also need to do the best that they can within their restraints until they are allowed to run an effective department. RG has clearly not done either because he settled for KD. Settling for KD is giving up on convincing your superiors AND not doing the best he can within his restraints.
2) take a job at a different institution where they will let you run the AD with championship goals.
someone who is a successful and legit AD wouldn’t be satisfied with mailing it in like RG has
White_Rabbit
Well-Known Member
I think after sark turned us down, RG quickly assessed that he didn’t want the prima donna type coach. He can’t aim too high, those guys leave. He can’t aim too low, he still wants to win a bit. So then he sees KD shopping at the store. They reminisce about old glorious times when hookers and blow littered the dal ward center. He then goes home and looks up KD’s wiki page. He sees nothing but 6+ win seasons at UCLA and even oh damn a 10-2 season. He calls him immediately and throws the contract he was going to give to Sark to him. And the rest was history. He didn’t mind that his career post UCLA had been on a steady downward spiral with one attempt to resurrect himself at Vandy that went horribly wrong. He had settled in as a dime a dozen nfl wr coach, a pool literally nobody hires a HC from for a reason
You forgot to mention his sweet new pair of size 7 sneakers. Surely, they must fit in the plot somewhere.
That reminds me of how we had Embree on a cheap contract as the Buffs switched conferences. That was ugly.
BlackNGold
Club Member
I think the Dorrell hire shows that something was going on behind the scenes - every time RG went after a coach it seemed like he emphasized recruiting ability. Then Dorrell shows up - Dorrell did not have a reputation for recruiting, had not been on the college football radar for several years, had not been mentioned for any HC job that I am aware of for a long time. And all of a sudden he is the CU HC hire. I would love to know what went on behind the scenes.
CU IT guy
Well-Known Member
The fact of the matter is RG panicked. When people panic they obviously don't think as clearly. I appreciate all the mental gymnastics people are doing here trying to 'think' thru what happened. That's not going to get to the bottom of WHY it happened.
He lost it mentally over Midnight leaving, and nothing he's done since then has made any sense. Duhrell was a nonsensical hire then, just as much as he's a nonsensical hire now.
In my estimation, hiring a HC was REAL work and effort for RG and most of it not to his liking. So he was not only panicked, but also kind of put out about it like a petulant child might be. So, he called up someone he knew from the past, a someone he KNEW had no other offers, a someone he KNEW COULD NOT say no to such a out of his league salary and multiyear contract, and someone he didn't have to bother getting on a flight to go talk to about it. That way RG could end his search immediately and go back to his offseason at the Boulder Country club tweeting Nikes.
There was NO LEGIT reason to hire this total turd with a miserable track record......who appears to also have some mental shortcomings of his own.
He lost it mentally over Midnight leaving, and nothing he's done since then has made any sense. Duhrell was a nonsensical hire then, just as much as he's a nonsensical hire now.
In my estimation, hiring a HC was REAL work and effort for RG and most of it not to his liking. So he was not only panicked, but also kind of put out about it like a petulant child might be. So, he called up someone he knew from the past, a someone he KNEW had no other offers, a someone he KNEW COULD NOT say no to such a out of his league salary and multiyear contract, and someone he didn't have to bother getting on a flight to go talk to about it. That way RG could end his search immediately and go back to his offseason at the Boulder Country club tweeting Nikes.
There was NO LEGIT reason to hire this total turd with a miserable track record......who appears to also have some mental shortcomings of his own.
Correct.
I think of RG the same way I thought of macintyre…
When you create standards of performance for yourself that you’re no longer able to meet, it’s time to move on. RG correctly diagnosed the issues Colorado had with its Football program’s infrastructure (i.e. recruiting) and hired someone who could address those issues head-on. That person became dissatisfied and took a better position elsewhere.
That personnel departure did not change Colorado’s need to prioritize its recruiting operation. For RG, it was a death blow to his ego. As a result, he has not performed at the same level that helped him close Mel Tucker. The AD needed his vision of making the Football program great via improved recruiting to continue. Instead he scrapped that vision and hired a washout who has not been good at recruiting since the 1990s.
I tried to tell y’all then and I will repeat: RG should go because he is unable to meet the standards he himself set. Nobody forced him to outline an aggressive vision for Football program success. He took on that responsibility. It’s simply proven to be too much for him to handle.
Spot on