Bunker mode

[SBG]

Just the fact that some are speaking of 2012 is an indictment of the program. That year was worse (so far).

But that year should never be used as a comparison. Ever.

At his point we should look at the last time the Buffs went bowling. Then we can talk about trying to look like the team that got beat in the big 12 cig. Then we can talk about 2001. Then we can talk about the MNC team.

Cody was the QB and the defense had some stellar players. That team would win against this team. They were meaner.

 

[Deleted member 807]

It's somewhat meaningless to compare the 2015 Buffs with CU teams from yesteryear. The measure that matters is how CU stacks up with other teams in the division and our conference rivals this year. Will CU end up last in the south? If not, who will be in the cellar?

Bottom line is the last place is last place.

 

[ahoelsken]

This program really needs some continuity. Although I'm not happy with many things, I think it is important that we bite the bullet and give Mac a full 5 years. Bad coaching has killed us, for sure. But the constant changes in coaching staffs has been at least as damaging.

If you want to keep him, and you can't come up with a better justification for doing so than continuity, you're behind the 8 ball already in my opinion. He's been given what he needs to get this fixed from the start-This is the highest paid staff in the history of the program. MM responded to getting that by bringing all but two of his assistants from San Jose State here, including an offensive coordinator who had one year of FBS experience and had been calling plays for the Northern Arizona Lumberjacks as recently as 2010. He works for an AD who quit talking about how important facilities were and got some built. Benson and DiStefano have gotten out of the way, so you can't blame them anymore. He needs to win conference games to show he deserves more time-Even Howell said you can't justify keeping him if he runs the table in reverse in conference play again. As inept as Hawkins (Sure, easier conference) and Embree were, neither of them pulled that off, and there's a very good chance Macintyre could do so twice. This is a results business. MacIntyre has seven more weeks to get some.

 

[ahoelsken]

This program really needs some continuity. Although I'm not happy with many things, I think it is important that we bite the bullet and give Mac a full 5 years. Bad coaching has killed us, for sure. But the constant changes in coaching staffs has been at least as damaging.

One more thing-If Rick George feels like he has to make a change, he'll have no trouble getting a good coach here. IMO, the fact that Gary Barnett agreed to replace Larry Zimmer after the way this school treated him ten years ago says A LOT about what kind of salesman Rick George is.

 

[White_Rabbit]

Continuity with a bad coach brings us nothing imo. If you really believe Mac is legit, you give him more time, but if you don't you're bogeying 1-2 more years. I really think we need to consider that a new coach would be coming in at a very good time this year.

 

[SuperD]

At this point I don't even know if I need a conference win, I'd settle for a game where the offense doesn't come out and step on their own crank until we get comfortably behind. After they completely bungle the first 2 - 3 series they seem to relax and play okay after they no longer have to deal with the pressure of "winning" (or at least until they catch up and then do it all over again in the start of the third). That and a game where Sefo puts together a complete game.

That said, the number of freak plays that went against us last week is the closest I've ever come to believing this program is truly cursed. You expect maybe a couple of those plays in the season, we had 3 - 4 in a single game. We need an exorcism or blessing ceremony or something.

 

[BorrachoBuff]

You don't think it's extraordinary that we have so few conference wins?

I guess it is pretty extraordinary. You would figure we would win a couple conference games just by chance. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

 

[Burrito]

I guess it is pretty extraordinary. You would figure we would win a couple conference games just by chance. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

So your original statement is inaccurate?

 

[Denver_sc]

So hold on you don't see a difference between this team and a team that lost to Sac St., a 4-win CSU team and was losing to Fresno 35-0 at the end of the first? I was at that ASU game and it was pure luck we were even close and they rattled off 31 straight points after that.

Not sure how you see that. We are much more ready to compete athletically with the PAC12 than in 2012 and if we don't spot them, what, 17 points? with turnovers etc, it's a closer game. We look much more like last year's team...shooting ourselves in the foot. I will say our OL has taken a dramatic step backward..their at Embree-era level of play.

I will admit that I'm playing devil's advocate a bit, and there are narratives to every game (i.e. "pure luck we were even close", "We don't spot them, what, 17 points"), but a lot of people said in the offseason that they were in "show me" mode, including me. Beating UMass, CSU, and Nicholls doesn't do much to move the needle with me, especially when they lost to Hawaii, and lost convincingly to Oregon and ASU, both of whom are probably middle of the conference teams this year.

If CU goes winless in conference again in 2015, would you argue that any of the wins this year are superior to the win on the road at WSU?

 

[ahoelsken]

At this point I don't even know if I need a conference win, I'd settle for a game where the offense doesn't come out and step on their own crank until we get comfortably behind. After they completely bungle the first 2 - 3 series they seem to relax and play okay after they no longer have to deal with the pressure of "winning" (or at least until they catch up and then do it all over again in the start of the third). That and a game where Sefo puts together a complete game.

That said, the number of freak plays that went against us last week is the closest I've ever come to believing this program is truly cursed. You expect maybe a couple of those plays in the season, we had 3 - 4 in a single game. We need an exorcism or blessing ceremony or something.

Freak plays? Like another blocked punt? Okay Hawk.

 

[ahoelsken]

Does anyone still think OSU ans WSU are winnable games?

Watch Arizona run all over OSU. They're in great shape-Anderson's a great coach. Thats a rebuild though.

 

[DBT]

If you want to keep him, and you can't come up with a better justification for doing so than continuity, you're behind the 8 ball already in my opinion. He's been given what he needs to get this fixed from the start-This is the highest paid staff in the history of the program. MM responded to getting that by bringing all but two of his assistants from San Jose State here, including an offensive coordinator who had one year of FBS experience and had been calling plays for the Northern Arizona Lumberjacks as recently as 2010. He works for an AD who quit talking about how important facilities were and got some built. Benson and DiStefano have gotten out of the way, so you can't blame them anymore. He needs to win conference games to show he deserves more time-Even Howell said you can't justify keeping him if he runs the table in reverse in conference play again. As inept as Hawkins (Sure, easier conference) and Embree were, neither of them pulled that off, and there's a very good chance Macintyre could do so twice. This is a results business. MacIntyre has seven more weeks to get some.

We shall see. I'm putting my faith in RG. What I posted is only my opinion and how I suspect RG will act.

 

[ahoelsken]

The only way I see this as the case, is if they are assured it won't be a one year gig. Similar to my speculation as to why Leavitt and Tumpkin both agreed to come here (They were assured the staff would get 2016 regardless).

You're way off, again-Tumpkin's former boss at Central Michigan left there for a coordinator gig at Arkansas. Leavitt was released from his contract IIRC the day after Dad Pants resigned in San Francisco to take the Michigan gig. I think Leavitt is a hell of a coach, and he's done a great job here as DC-but I will say this: The way he left USF (as wrong as that school might have been there) probably hindered whatever interest he got outside of the job he currently holds. Look at the fat man as a comparison-Ugly departure at Kansas, takes time off, goes and calls plays at Youngstown State for a while, and is the offensive coordinator at Iowa State currently. Here's my overall point-unemployed coaches, especially guys in the situations Leavitt and Tumpkin left when they came here, don't have that kind of leverage. Job interviewing in any profession doesn't work that way.

 

[DBT]

You're way off, again-Tumpkin's former boss at Central Michigan left there for a coordinator gig at Arkansas. Leavitt was released from his contract IIRC the day after Dad Pants resigned in San Francisco to take the Michigan gig. I think Leavitt is a hell of a coach, and he's done a great job here as DC-but I will say this: The way he left USF (as wrong as that school might have been there) probably hindered whatever interest he got outside of the job he currently holds. Look at the fat man as a comparison-Ugly departure at Kansas, takes time off, goes and calls plays at Youngstown State for a while, and is the offensive coordinator at Iowa State currently. Here's my overall point-unemployed coaches, especially guys in the situations Leavitt and Tumpkin left when they came here, don't have that kind of leverage. Job interviewing in any profession doesn't work that way.

I believe you are incorrect if you're argument is that Tumpkin and Leavitt had no other options and that is why they accepted a gig al lowly CU. Is that what you are saying?

 

[onealcd]

I will admit that I'm playing devil's advocate a bit, and there are narratives to every game (i.e. "pure luck we were even close", "We don't spot them, what, 17 points"), but a lot of people said in the offseason that they were in "show me" mode, including me. Beating UMass, CSU, and Nicholls doesn't do much to move the needle with me, especially when they lost to Hawaii, and lost convincingly to Oregon and ASU, both of whom are probably middle of the conference teams this year.

If CU goes winless in conference again in 2015, would you argue that any of the wins this year are superior to the win on the road at WSU?

One win over a terrible team doesn't really move the needle and it won't this year either. I am disappointed in the last two games And especially the hawaii game but I was just saying this team is not near as bad as that one.

 

[DBT]

Ugh. I'm beginning to sound like a Mac defender. MAKE IT STOP!!!!!!

 

[Tatanka™]

The big difference being that Bill came from a better coaching tree than Mike did.

If someone else pointed this out, I missed it. Mike worked for Bill Parcells in the NFL. Bo Schembechler was great, but I think Mike probably learned a thing or two studying under a Super Bowl winning coach.

(Note: The preceding statement should not be taken as an endorsement of Mike MacIntyre.)

 

[BorrachoBuff]

So your original statement is inaccurate?

Yes, thank you for enlightening me.

 

[TDbuff]

You are speculating and stating it as a fact. He landed 2 extraordinary assistants last off-season; If the money and positions are right, there will be plenty of takers.

I am speculating and gave reasons for why I thought that way when you asked. I really don't think it's crazy to question what the assistant market will be like for MM going into his 4th and possibly final year.

Last years coaching search may have ended well, but it wasn't smooth or easy by any means.

 

[ahoelsken]

I believe you are incorrect if you're argument is that Tumpkin and Leavitt had no other options and that is why they accepted a gig al lowly CU. Is that what you are saying?

No-I have no inside information. That said, I do want to put forth a hunch.....What I believe happened is somewhere in the middle-I think the notion that Leavitt, Tumpkin, or both had any concrete conversations six months ago about MM's job security or were given sort of assurances regarding 2016 or beyond is ridiculous. I don't believe RG especially would overplay his hand like that in an interview or negotiations. From what Howell has put forth the last few months as far as the dynamcs between MM and RG-I believe he likes MacIntyre, and wants him to be the guy to turn this around. I also believe he won't hesitate to part ways with Mac if he believes thats what he needs to do. With that said, could Leavitt have been given a higher buyout than the one EB or Baer had to help assuade him that he would not have to look for a new job in December? Absolutely, and I think thats much more likely than the scenario that Schekler proposes.

 

[Burrito]

Any mention of Edith?

 

[TDbuff]

No-I have no inside information. That said, I do want to put forth a hunch.....What I believe happened is somewhere in the middle-I think the notion that Leavitt, Tumpkin, or both had any concrete conversations six months ago about MM's job security or were given sort of assurances regarding 2016 or beyond is ridiculous.

It could also be possible that Leavitt and Tumpkin were given assurances that they weren't attached to MM, if he were let go.

 

[Yellow Shirt]

RG is smart enough to know that if he cans MM this year, after year 3, the next coach will be just as unsuccessful: that new coach being his hire. He does not want to be looking at being pitch forked into firing his first coaching hire after 2/3 years. It's a far better play to let MM continue to improve the overall state (which he has) for at least one more year. The only way RG fires MM this year is if he has an A-list huge splash coach privately committed to the job.

I say, go grab that paperback copy of Shogun that's in your dad's den, engross yourself, and behold and digest a tale of patience... and anal beads.

 

[SINKRATZ]

RG is smart enough to know that if he cans MM this year, after year 3, the next coach will be just as unsuccessful: that new coach being his hire. He does not want to be looking at being pitch forked into firing his first coaching hire after 2/3 years. It's a far better play to let MM continue to improve the overall state (which he has) for at least one more year. The only way RG fires MM this year is if he has an A-list huge splash coach privately committed to the job.

I say, go grab that paperback copy of Shogun that's in your dad's den, engross yourself, and behold and digest a tale of patience... and anal beads.

Why would the next coach be just as unsuccessful?

 

[sackman]

Why would the next coach be just as unsuccessful?

Because he'd be starting over from scratch.
Patience is a nasty bitch.

 

[DBT]

Why would the next coach be just as unsuccessful?

Maybe because you would kill this year's recruiting class and he would be starting recruiting from scratch with a lot of seniors graduating after next season? I know the "experts" here will disagree with me, but I think it takes a few years to establish lines of recruiting. Especially for Mac after coming from the WAC. But I guess it all depends on who RG were to, hypothetically, hire. A young, phenom, up and coming coordinator would have to start from scratch recruiting. A well known veteran "name" coach might not.

As for me, as unhappy as I am with Mac right now, I just do not see the benefit of making a change. I think it would just put us back another 3 or 4 years while the new guy gets his system in place. Then we'd all be bitching about him in a couple of years and calling for another change. It has to stop at some point. We need some stability.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

RG is smart enough to know that if he cans MM this year, after year 3, the next coach will be just as unsuccessful: that new coach being his hire. He does not want to be looking at being pitch forked into firing his first coaching hire after 2/3 years. It's a far better play to let MM continue to improve the overall state (which he has) for at least one more year. The only way RG fires MM this year is if he has an A-list huge splash coach privately committed to the job.

I say, go grab that paperback copy of Shogun that's in your dad's den, engross yourself, and behold and digest a tale of patience... and anal beads.

Great book. Don't read the last page or you screwed your consumption of the book.

I agree with the bolded

 

[MiamiBuffs]

Maybe because you would kill this year's recruiting class and he would be starting recruiting from scratch with a lot of seniors graduating after next season? I know the "experts" here will disagree with me, but I think it takes a few years to establish lines of recruiting. Especially for Mac after coming from the WAC. But I guess it all depends on who RG were to, hypothetically, hire. A young, phenom, up and coming coordinator would have to start from scratch recruiting. A well known veteran "name" coach might not.

As for me, as unhappy as I am with Mac right now, I just do not see the benefit of making a change. I think it would just put us back another 3 or 4 years while the new guy gets his system in place. Then we'd all be bitching about him in a couple of years and calling for another change. It has to stop at some point. We need some stability.

This appears to be, so far, Mac's best class. If it continues to improve thats reason enough not to fire him because, as you point out, there is great risk that we lose this class AND the up and comer we end up hiring might be no better than MM. Which means starting over again nearly at zero 3 more years down the road.

Why would the next coach be just as unsuccessful?

Because our base of players that guy has to work with is still very marginal. And then the current class's most valuable recruits would all get canabalized in the gap between the fire and the hire.

This is why I sort of suggested Mack Brown earlier on. He was a great recruiter and he's in his mid 60s so retirement isn't far off. Wether you agree with Brown or not a big name hire seems to me to be the only option if we do make a change. Otherwise Im not convinced its worth it.

 

[Yellow Shirt]

Same players trying to learn new system plus historical data showing it doesn't work.

 

[pwbuffan]

This program really needs some continuity. Although I'm not happy with many things, I think it is important that we bite the bullet and give Mac a full 5 years. Bad coaching has killed us, for sure. But the constant changes in coaching staffs has been at least as damaging.

Giving Hawkins that extra year was much more damaging than making a coaching change IMO. Of course naming a TE coach as HC wasn't very smart either but Bohn is gone so I would take a chance now.