Bunker mode

[MtnBuff]

Also be interesting to try to convince the right guy that this is a good job when the last two guys didn't get the normal 4 years. Firing Embree with less than two years in understandable because he was a train wreck. Firing M2 with less than four years would be harder to explain while trying to convince the incoming coach that we have a better talent base to work with than M2 started with.

 

[sackman]

The trajectory of the program under Hawkins was straight down. Therein lies the difference. Hawkins needed to be fired to stem the bleeding. Well, the patient died, so there's no need to stem the bleeding anymore. We really have nothing to lose by keeping MM around for another year. We won't lose any fans. We won't lose any revenue. By firing MM now, we set the clock back to zero again. That means a minimum of another three years.
I'd prefer to stay the course and see if he and Leavitt can recruit their way out of this mess.

 

[pcbuff]

The trajectory of the program under Hawkins was straight down. Therein lies the difference. Hawkins needed to be fired to stem the bleeding. Well, the patient died, so there's no need to stem the bleeding anymore. We really have nothing to lose by keeping MM around for another year. We won't lose any fans. We won't lose any revenue. By firing MM now, we set the clock back to zero again. That means a minimum of another three years.
I'd prefer to stay the course and see if he and Leavitt can recruit their way out of this mess.

What departing seniors have replacements that are better? Spruce, Powell, Nembot, Solis,etc... In my opinion the prior staffs brought in a lot of multi year starters, and they haven't been displaced by Macs recruits. I'm nervous about next year. They need to win now.

 

[MtnBuff]

What departing seniors have replacements that are better? Spruce, Powell, Nembot, Solis,etc... In my opinion the prior staffs brought in a lot of multi year starters, and they haven't been displaced by Macs recruits. I'm nervous about next year. They need to win now.

Other than Spruce none of these are guys who would be starters on most PAC teams. M2 has a team that came with little talent and less leadership.

It says volumes that a lot of our leadership is coming from a soph RB.

 

[NW Buff]

The trajectory of the program under Hawkins was straight down. Therein lies the difference. Hawkins needed to be fired to stem the bleeding. Well, the patient died, so there's no need to stem the bleeding anymore. We really have nothing to lose by keeping MM around for another year. We won't lose any fans. We won't lose any revenue. By firing MM now, we set the clock back to zero again. That means a minimum of another three years.
I'd prefer to stay the course and see if he and Leavitt can recruit their way out of this mess.

While I tend to agree with you about staying the course, I do worry about the sunk cost fallacy. The time invested in MacIntyre is gone. Using that as justification for keeping him longer is a mistake.

What we have to lose by keeping him around (assuming for a second that he cannot turn it around) is that timeline for actually getting better gets pushed back even further. I'd rather not be DBT's age before we are good again.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

While I tend to agree with you about staying the course, I do worry about the sunk cost fallacy. The time invested in MacIntyre is gone. Using that as justification for keeping him longer is a mistake.

What we have to lose by keeping him around (assuming for a second that he cannot turn it around) is that timeline for actually getting better gets pushed back even further. I'd rather not be DBT's age before we are good again.

What's your tolerance for pain? Who would you hire? Is that person a slam dunk? Would he even accept the job? How long would give him if you saw the exact same results for at least 3 seasons?

Univ Texas is widely accepted to be talent laden when a middling Mack Brown was fired. Charlie Strong was thought to be a very close to zero risk hire. Hows that panning out?

Mack Brown so far seems to be the better coach. Football isn't a computer program or a video game with absolute tolerances or absolute results. Rather its finite collection of human personalities prone to mistakes and ever changing sets of challenges. Change for the sack of change tends to produce results outside of whats desired.

There are reasons to fire MacIntyre and there are reasons to retain. Unless a slam dunk hire comes along Im for staying the course for now because recruiting seems to be improving.

 

[NW Buff]

What's your tolerance for pain? Who would you hire? Is that person a slam dunk? Would he even accept the job?

Pretty sure that I'm numb at this point.

 

[skibum]

The question to me isn't whether coach X or MM will produce a better 2016, or honestly even a better 2017. The real question is whether coach X or MM will produce a better 2018 & 2019.

 

[goalline]

What departing seniors have replacements that are better? Spruce, Powell, Nembot, Solis,etc... In my opinion the prior staffs brought in a lot of multi year starters, and they haven't been displaced by Macs recruits. I'm nervous about next year. They need to win now.

I'd prefer to hold this discussion unitl after the season is over. We need to support the seniors for the remainder regardless of W L record. Having said that, the OL continues to get better recruits in the younger ranks, but none seem to have the size and raw talent of Nembot. I think the receiving corp is far better than a couple of years ago. Hopefully Kafovalu is back and most reports are that he is at least as good if not better than Solis. I have high hopes for Tuiloma. QB position is likely to improve whether we stick with the current starter or one of the younger guys. Powell? Average back, not a big hole as Lindsey Adkins are Carr are already taking the load.

In short, small senior class, therefore the team should overall improve.

 

[Deleted member 807]

11 out of 12 head coaches in the Pac12 would like to see Mike MacIntyre retained indefinitely.

USC didn't respond siting the need to address other pressing coaching related matters.

 

[BorrachoBuff]

11 out of 12 head coaches in the Pac12 would like to see Mike MacIntyre retained indefinitely.

USC didn't respond siting the need to address other pressing coaching related matters.

11 out of 12 P12 head coaches probably wouldn't even recognize MacIntyre on the street

 

[DBT]

Giving Hawkins that extra year was much more damaging than making a coaching change IMO. Of course naming a TE coach as HC wasn't very smart either but Bohn is gone so I would take a chance now.

Yeah. There are no magical beans, haha.

 

[8Jah]

It takes a lot of things to have a good football program; players, coaches, ADs, admin, and the fanbase. We have tried changing coaches three times and it hasn't worked. We have had at least two ADs and some differences in admin...so doubtful the main problem is their either. Maybe...just perhaps...we are the bigger part of the problem.

Ever tried to build a functional team within a dysfunctional organization and have all the outsiders turn on you? When your critics don't really know what is going on, they just see the 10000foot level results? When they have no way of knowing who are the real heros and who are the @holes and losers? I have...and it sucks. This kind of environment makes it a million times harder to bring back success.

Make is easier for MM to succeed. If you want to help then stay positive, even if you feel like you are going to explode. Sometimes a head coaching change is necessary. ADs and other rational leaders realize it is in their best interest to wait until the season is over if at all possible to make public statements. They know the season rests on a HC's ability to hold the hearts of fickle 18 year olds who are immaturely attuned to what is being said about their HC.

 

[Deleted member 807]

@8Jah. I think Stanford definitively proves that a football team can achieve without a big fan base.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Leadership at CU needs to come from within. The program will fail when the fans are asked to lead from behind.

Any effort to cajole CU's diverse fanbase into one big kumbya of positivity is doomed to fail.

Tough love fans who tell it like they see it are every bit as valuable as the Dal Ward yes men.

 

[pcbuff]

@8Jah.

Tough love fans who tell it like they see it are every bit as valuable as the Dal Ward yes men.

When we win, the quick rebound in the fan base will amaze. Look how much positive energy beating three bad teams created this year. People love college football and an afternoon at Folsom is spectacular! Many of us former yes men have probably swung too far in the other direction as a defense mechanism. It takes a very loyal dog to keep searching for the fake throw after the 30th fake.

 

[SINKRATZ]

The trajectory of the program under Hawkins was straight down. Therein lies the difference. Hawkins needed to be fired to stem the bleeding. Well, the patient died, so there's no need to stem the bleeding anymore. We really have nothing to lose by keeping MM around for another year. We won't lose any fans. We won't lose any revenue. By firing MM now, we set the clock back to zero again. That means a minimum of another three years.
I'd prefer to stay the course and see if he and Leavitt can recruit their way out of this mess.

Meh, you're basically saying we should keep Mac because we can go any lower ("nothing to lose"), that's a lousy reason to keep a coach and if it's true then changing coaches really shouldn't set us back at all.

 

[8Jah]

I don't think you guys get my point at all. Being positive in no way makes you a yes man...it is simply the rational thing to do.

It may feel good to vent during the season about changing the head coach...but it does no good for the team and it works at cross-purposes with your desire to see CU football do well. Outside of criminal or highly unprofessional conduct there is nothing, nada, zero good that can come from fans calling for an HCs head while the season is still in play. It creates a caustic environment that makes the HC's job much harder and it makes losing so much easier.

The end of the season is the time for these kind of comments if they are warranted.You will have the benefit of seeing how things turned out. You won't negatively effect the outcome of the season, and, after your knee-jerk sentiments have subsided, you may be able to contribute rational and informed opinions as to the direction of the program.

 

[Deleted member 807]

It's worth considering how quickly a program can rise with a new coach. A few examples

Briles to **** Baylor
McElwain to CSU, then Florida
Meyer to tOSU

All three coaches show that the right guy can turn around a program in 4 years. When Sparkles came to Ft Collins, one of his big wins involved upgrading RB with Dee Hart, who he had recruited when at Alabama. CSU got good fast because Sparkles recruited playmakers. Briles is well known in TX HS football coaching circles. He got RG3 because of his Texas recruiting connections.

My buddy who is an Alabama fan told me that the way to success is to open up the wallet and pay the money for the best you can get. Sabin's big paycheck turned some heads during year 1. No Tide fan second guesses that strategy now, just like no Buckeye regrets backing up the Brinks for Meyer.

Go big is a strategy CU hasn't pursued, It's about time CU went hunting for big game.

Gary Pinkel is an example of continuity leading to a winning record, but not at the highest level. I think Pinkel level success is the best CU might hope for if we stay the course.

 

[8Jah]

Few at CSU care that much about football and those that do have years-worth of built in, low expectations. CSU has never won a NC nor had a decade where they were a major football power. What is worse for a HC, coming into a decades long terrible program with fans who would be happy with consecutive bowl wins or coming into a (nearly)decades long terrible program who's active fans expect a rise to national prominence? Ask MM if it was easier at SJSU or CU.

CU is not going to get a major name coach who can just turn things around. Could we get Nick Saban? Never! Could we have even someone like Les Miles? No! Utah got Urban Myer when he was starting out...could they get him now? No! Could CU get UM? NO! We have to look for good up and coming coaches...like MM.

If you must insist on constantly rolling over the coaching staff I heard Steve Sarkisian was pretty cheap ???

 

[sackman]

Meh, you're basically saying we should keep Mac because we can go any lower ("nothing to lose"), that's a lousy reason to keep a coach and if it's true then changing coaches really shouldn't set us back at all.

Wow. That's exactly the opposite of what I'm saying.

 

[DBT]

I don't think you guys get my point at all. Being positive in no way makes you a yes man...it is simply the rational thing to do.

It may feel good to vent during the season about changing the head coach...but it does no good for the team and it works at cross-purposes with your desire to see CU football do well. Outside of criminal or highly unprofessional conduct there is nothing, nada, zero good that can come from fans calling for an HCs head while the season is still in play. It creates a caustic environment that makes the HC's job much harder and it makes losing so much easier.

The end of the season is the time for these kind of comments if they are warranted.You will have the benefit of seeing how things turned out. You won't negatively effect the outcome of the season, and, after your knee-jerk sentiments have subsided, you may be able to contribute rational and informed opinions as to the direction of the program.

I tried the "being positive" approach a while back. It did not work. At any rate, we are just a stupid fan board with a couple hundred rabid Buff fans. We are of little consequence in the overall scheme of things.

 

[Deleted member 807]

Few at CSU care that much about football and those that do have years-worth of built in, low expectations. CSU has never won a NC nor had a decade were they were a major football power. What is worse for a HC, coming into a decades long terrible program with fans who would be happy with consecutive bowl wins or coming into a (nearly)decades long terrible program who's active fans expect a rise to national prominence? Ask MM is it was easier at SJSU or CU.

CU is not going to get a major name coach who can just turn it around. Could we get Nick Saban? Never! Could we have even someone like Les Miles? No! Utah got Urban Myer when he was starting out...could they get him now? No! Could CU get UM? NO! We have to look for good up and coming coaches...like MM.

If you must insist on constantly rolling over the coaching staff I heard Steve Sarkisian was pretty cheap ???

What have CU fans learned over the past 15 years? Does it involve aiming low or rolling over or settling for mediocrity?

My favorite attribute of Rick George is that he's not afraid to reach for big goals. He's not satisfied with the progress of the program. Nor should we be.

If CU wants to be a ranked program again, its going to need to start acting like one. This includes not settling for less than excellence.

 

[Duff Man]

The notion that good recruiting takes years to build is laughable.

 

[8Jah]

I At any rate, we are just a stupid fan board with a couple hundred rabid Buff fans. We are of little consequence in the overall scheme of things.

When buffzone says fans are unhappy with Sefo, or there is talk about new HC among fans they are referring to these forums. In the internet era these kind of boards ARE the voice of the fans.

Collective positive sentiment by itself isn't going to win football games, but it will create an environment in which a winning program can grow.

 

[8Jah]

What have CU fans learned over the past 15 years? Does it involve aiming low or rolling over or settling for mediocrity?

My favorite attribute of Rick George is that he's not afraid to reach for big goals. He's not satisfied with the progress of the program. Nor should we be.

If CU wants to be a ranked program again, its going to need to start acting like one. This includes not settling for less than excellence.

I don't know how you conflate being positive during the season with settling for mediocrity.

However I promise you that incessant fan negativity is highly correlated with losing programs.

 

[Duff Man]

Oh my.

 

[White_Rabbit]

The notion that good recruiting takes years to build is laughable.

As evidenced by this exact year by CU in the southeast...

I really don't get why CU getting a new coach would be going backwards to start again. New guy comes in, new guy preferably has connections, new guy uses connections better than Mac has been able to use his CA connections, recruiting surges upward, current roster has a lot of upperclassmen with a chance to have a decent first year (bowl?), new coach is heralded, huge first full year recruiting class, Montez might be legit? This all seems pretty awesome to me.

idk, this entire debate is premature. AZ, OSU, WSU. After those games is when we'll be legitimately discussing another year for Mac. For me, he needs two wins there, but who knows what RG will require?

 

[CUBUFF80]

I don't know how you conflate being positive during the season with settling for mediocrity.

However I promise you that I incessant fan negativity is highly correlated with losing programs.

Isn't that expected or should fans of losing programs be rose colored glasses wearing Pollyannas?

 

[Deleted member 807]

I don't know how you conflate being positive during the season with settling for mediocrity.

However I promise you that I incessant fan negativity is highly correlated with losing programs.

Find me one example of any college football program in the history of forever where a positive tone of the team's message boards dictate the success of a program.

If you are opposed to negativity in this community, might I suggest that you check out Buffbackers after a loss? That community eats what @8Jah is cooking.

 

[aghcsm]

Does anyone still think OSU ans WSU are winnable games?

I never thought these were likely wins as they are road games. Seems that makes a 2-3 touchdown differential for the Buffs. Unfortunate that this year the better conference opponents are at home, and worse ones away.