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LIVE! BYU Game thread. Official.

Uncle Ken said:
I would guess that this philosophy is about 70% correct. Maybe 65%.
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To put it in basketball terms since it's fewer moving parts: when an opponent runs a defense that doubles Joker and runs guys at him to force the ball out of his hands, the winning adjustment is not to turn him into a distributor who never shoots. Yes, there are some plays and sets run to exploit and make them pay. But the most important thing is making sure that Joker makes the wrong basketball play, forces action and takes some "bad" shots to impose his will on the opponent. You can't let teams dictate how you play.
 
Choosing to punt when you had the ball at the 39 was asinine too.

Let Buck take a rip, and show a little faith in your defense.

Also, that was a bad sack that Kaidon took in the 3rd and 10 that preceded it. That was a perfect situation to call a draw or run to try to get to 4th and <5 to go for it, or at least pick up 2 yards and try ~45 yd FG.

Mata's accuracy has been nice, but his lack of range really handcuffs the staff that is already prone to making bad analytical decisions in those scenarios.
 
Robert Sorell said:
Choosing to punt when you had the ball at the 39 was asinine too.

Let Buck take a rip, and show a little faith in your defense.

Also, that was a bad sack that Kaidon took in the 3rd and 10 that preceded it. That was a perfect situation to call a draw or run to try to get to 4th and <5 to go for it, or at least pick up 2 yards and try ~45 yd FG.

Mata's accuracy has been nice, but his lack of range really handcuffs the staff that is already prone to making bad analytical decisions in those scenarios.
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exactly

and wasn't that the bad punt for 28 yards?
 
#1 pick said:
For me, he has till bye week to get this one on the tracks. After that, it's Juju time. Good or bad.
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It's very clear that this isn't a playoff team. Don't know if it is even a second level bowl team and have to wonder if getting some bowl that nobody pays much attention to means much to the future of the team.

We have seen Salter get a lot better than he was early but this year is it for him, he isn't our future, Juju is. Unless there is a good reason not to like he is just not ready for this level we might as well get Juju out there. Saving a year of eligibility shouldn't be an issue because if Juju is as good as advertised he isn't going to stay in college 5 years anyways.

Beyond that under Prime this team has gotten off to a slow start offensively (and defensively) every year. I would suggest that a big part of this is the huge turnover we see every year on the lines. It takes time for those guys to coordinate and get comfortable with the system.

Again this season outside of Seaton the entire starting OL is going to done after this year. The DL as well is senior heavy.

Have to consider based on the direction the team is taking if it wouldn't make sense in addition to Juju if we don't make a serious effort to get the few younger guys we have on the OL out there and playing. Carde Smith, Chauncey Gooden I.E. Unfortunately beyond those two we don't even have much in terms of young linement. Need to start seriously recruiting HS linemen and developing them instead of doing a mass rebuild each year out of the portal.
 
MtnBuff said:
It's very clear that this isn't a playoff team. Don't know if it is even a second level bowl team and have to wonder if getting some bowl that nobody pays much attention to means much to the future of the team.

We have seen Salter get a lot better than he was early but this year is it for him, he isn't our future, Juju is. Unless there is a good reason not to like he is just not ready for this level we might as well get Juju out there. Saving a year of eligibility shouldn't be an issue because if Juju is as good as advertised he isn't going to stay in college 5 years anyways.

Beyond that under Prime this team has gotten off to a slow start offensively (and defensively) every year. I would suggest that a big part of this is the huge turnover we see every year on the lines. It takes time for those guys to coordinate and get comfortable with the system.

Again this season outside of Seaton the entire starting OL is going to done after this year. The DL as well is senior heavy.

Have to consider based on the direction the team is taking if it wouldn't make sense in addition to Juju if we don't make a serious effort to get the few younger guys we have on the OL out there and playing. Carde Smith, Chauncey Gooden I.E. Unfortunately beyond those two we don't even have much in terms of young linement. Need to start seriously recruiting HS linemen and developing them instead of doing a mass rebuild each year out of the portal.
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The schedule is a lot more difficult than we expected but we knew it wasn't going to be easy and we were going to be inexperienced

Not as worried about the DL as most of them are DTs. We can recruit those rotational guys. We just need a gem like Chidozie was.

As far as the OL, I like our talent with Yoyo and Goodon. Smith is backing up Johnson. Seaton is going to be an all American junior and top overall prospect. We aren't that far. Just gotta get more starters on defense. We gotta get stars this go around, rotational guys are not enough. Like you said, we wasted this OL and it sucks. We needed them so bad on last year's squad.
 
#1 pick said:
The schedule is a lot more difficult than we expected but we knew it wasn't going to be easy and we were going to be inexperienced

Not as worried about the DL as most of them are DTs. We can recruit those rotational guys. We just need a gem like Chidozie was.

As far as the OL, I like our talent with Yoyo and Goodon. Smith is backing up Johnson. Seaton is going to be an all American junior and top overall prospect. We aren't that far. Just gotta get more starters on defense. We gotta get stars this go around, rotational guys are not enough. Like you said, we wasted this OL and it sucks. We needed them so bad on last year's squad.
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Last years offensive talent with this years OL would have been dangerous.

My concern though is that we need to get off the cycle of rebuilding almost an entire line each year through the portal. Some positions talent can show out immediately. A quallity line requires not only talent but also coordination and time in the system.

When Prime got here we had no talent on the OL. I can understand his going to the portal but that is not a sustainable long term plan.

Seaton is one of the best college OL players in the nation, I don't expect him to be here after next year. 1st round money is hard to pass up.

It's time to start building OL for the long term. That doesn't mean we can't fill in with some quality transfer players but the core of the OL needs to be guys who are in our system multiple years.

If you look at a lot of the success that BYU had last night, a lot of it was based on OL coordination that we can't get close to.
 
If you run the 4-2-5 in today’s game (and you should), you better damn sure have two studs that can fill and run at LB and a near-Superman at Star/Nickel/Slot who can run, tackle, set, support and cover.

CU ain’t got shi+ at these three critical/essential positions in this scheme. None, nada, zero, zip, zilch.
 
Just thinking back about the game, there's no question that Shurmur is the real goat here. He amazingly had a great game plan to start the game, the offense executed it perfectly, and then he just inexplicably went away from it and the offense returned to the same predictable dreck that we've seen all year. Except for one drive in the 4th quarter.

We're all screaming into the void, because Prime listens to no one but Prime, but Shurmur must go (duh).

The point of the post though is that the team, as currently constructed, should have won the game. Salter has limitations. He's not great. But the team should have won despite those limitations. The defense is not as good as it should be. The defensive backfield is embarrassingly bad, considering the coach we have. But the team should have won despite the DBs being bad. Everything should have been overcomeable, if the OC just did his job.
 
MtnBuff said:
It's very clear that this isn't a playoff team. Don't know if it is even a second level bowl team and have to wonder if getting some bowl that nobody pays much attention to means much to the future of the team.
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Getting a bowl would be helpful to get JuJu and some of the other young guys reps in the extra practices, but it would probably be more valuable to just play them in the games this season, even if it costs us a bowl.
 
Alfred91 said:
Just thinking back about the game, there's no question that Shurmur is the real goat here. He amazingly had a great game plan to start the game, the offense executed it perfectly, and then he just inexplicably went away from it and the offense returned to the same predictable dreck that we've seen all year. Except for one drive in the 4th quarter.

We're all screaming into the void, because Prime listens to no one but Prime, but Shurmur must go (duh).

The point of the post though is that the team, as currently constructed, should have won the game. Salter has limitations. He's not great. But the team should have won despite those limitations. The defense is not as good as it should be. The defensive backfield is embarrassingly bad, considering the coach we have. But the team should have won despite the DBs being bad. Everything should have been overcomeable, if the OC just did his job.
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Shurmur is in the correct role as a consultant who has no expectations or path to becoming the OC and doesn't have the HC's ear in competition with the OC. Has a reputation as a guy who can dissect film and stand at the whiteboard all day diagramming plays and counters. As the OC, he sucks.
 
Huskerslayer420 said:
I got threatened with a ban for far less than pennypacker’s antics tonight. Guess it pays to be some leftist freak who’s friends with the mods!
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Battle Revolution GIF by Warner Bros. Pictures
 
MtnBuff said:
Last years offensive talent with this years OL would have been dangerous.

My concern though is that we need to get off the cycle of rebuilding almost an entire line each year through the portal. Some positions talent can show out immediately. A quallity line requires not only talent but also coordination and time in the system.

When Prime got here we had no talent on the OL. I can understand his going to the portal but that is not a sustainable long term plan.

Seaton is one of the best college OL players in the nation, I don't expect him to be here after next year. 1st round money is hard to pass up.

It's time to start building OL for the long term. That doesn't mean we can't fill in with some quality transfer players but the core of the OL needs to be guys who are in our system multiple years.

If you look at a lot of the success that BYU had last night, a lot of it was based on OL coordination that we can't get close to.
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Carde Smith and Chauncey Gooden were big 4-star gets last year, Yahya Attia looks like his development is coming along, he was always going to be a project. Next year's class has three 3-star OL commits so far, hopefully that stability is starting to be built.
 
So disappointing.

Still can't stop a running QB, nor the run in general. However the defense kept us in this game.

Poor clock management still

An anemic offense that misses opportunities and gets left in 2nd or 3rd and long too often.

While there have been improvements since game 1, they are just not enough.

My fear after game 1 was that we would be struggling to get to a bowl, let alone win one and that fear is stronger now.
 
Does Prime even do any recruiting other than meeting them when they visit? He doesn’t do visits from what I’ve read.
 
DBT said:
Does Prime even do any recruiting other than meeting them when they visit? He doesn’t do visits from what I’ve read.
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You don't think he's involved in setting team needs priorities, evaluating targets, speaking to the network of street agents et al, calling and texting recruits, etc? That he's just given the list and bulleted notes on visitors so he can turn on the charm while they're on campus?
 
MtnBuff said:
It's very clear that this isn't a playoff team. Don't know if it is even a second level bowl team and have to wonder if getting some bowl that nobody pays much attention to means much to the future of the team.

We have seen Salter get a lot better than he was early but this year is it for him, he isn't our future, Juju is. Unless there is a good reason not to like he is just not ready for this level we might as well get Juju out there. Saving a year of eligibility shouldn't be an issue because if Juju is as good as advertised he isn't going to stay in college 5 years anyways.

Beyond that under Prime this team has gotten off to a slow start offensively (and defensively) every year. I would suggest that a big part of this is the huge turnover we see every year on the lines. It takes time for those guys to coordinate and get comfortable with the system.

Again this season outside of Seaton the entire starting OL is going to done after this year. The DL as well is senior heavy.

Have to consider based on the direction the team is taking if it wouldn't make sense in addition to Juju if we don't make a serious effort to get the few younger guys we have on the OL out there and playing. Carde Smith, Chauncey Gooden I.E. Unfortunately beyond those two we don't even have much in terms of young linement. Need to start seriously recruiting HS linemen and developing them instead of doing a mass rebuild each year out of the portal.
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To quote a stalwart of the business: “Playoffs??!” … seriously, this team needs to go 4-3 just to be bowl eligible. Tell me where those 4 wins are coming from. Making any bowl game would be a shocking turnaround.
 
1991 Orange Bowl said:
To quote a stalwart of the business: “Playoffs??!” … seriously, this team needs to go 4-3 just to be bowl eligible. Tell me where those 4 wins are coming from. Making any bowl game would be a shocking turnaround.
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I only see three realistic opportunities for wins on the remaining schedule. Arizona, West Virginia and Kansas State. I expect that CU will be underdogs in at least two of those games. A fourth win would be a major upset.
 
Buffnik said:
Sometimes I think where coordinators screw up is that they act like they're playing chess or a video game. "The other team made an adjustment and now their personnel & fits are set up to stop what we were having success doing. That opens up something else, so I'm going to exploit the weakness they exposed." That sounds fine, but it's wrong in actual sports competition. Good coordinators don't change what they're doing based on the opponent's adjustments - unless and those adjustments actually stop you. You have to have an identity and impose your will. Dominant football comes from "this is what we're doing and there's nothing you are able to do to stop it." Nothing better than a defense putting 8 or 9 in the box with spies and run blitzes - and you still gain 4+ per carry. College teams almost never have enough football IQ and experience to take what the defense gives and efficiently execute whatever the perfect counter move would be. That's what good NFL offenses can do.

I've become very negative towards college OCs who define their approach as "balanced and multiple". Case in point - even if Livingston had decided to run goal line defense all game last night, BYU would not have come out in 4-wide or empty the rest of the game as an adjustment. They have an identity and adjust within that identity.
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Don’t forget MASSIVE egos.
 
CitizenKane said:
I only see three realistic opportunities for wins on the remaining schedule. Arizona, West Virginia and Kansas State. I expect that CU will be underdogs in at least two of those games. A fourth win would be a major upset.
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K-State will likely be playing for a bowl bid on Senior Day. They will dismember us. Sorry.
 
Alfred91 said:
Just thinking back about the game, there's no question that Shurmur is the real goat here. He amazingly had a great game plan to start the game, the offense executed it perfectly, and then he just inexplicably went away from it and the offense returned to the same predictable dreck that we've seen all year. Except for one drive in the 4th quarter.

We're all screaming into the void, because Prime listens to no one but Prime, but Shurmur must go (duh).

The point of the post though is that the team, as currently constructed, should have won the game. Salter has limitations. He's not great. But the team should have won despite those limitations. The defense is not as good as it should be. The defensive backfield is embarrassingly bad, considering the coach we have. But the team should have won despite the DBs being bad. Everything should have been overcomeable, if the OC just did his job.
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How do you know the 1st quarter playcalling was all Shurmur? I ask because it wasn’t. It was greatly influenced by others then Shurmur took over with his “adjustments.” How do I know? Because I was told by someone who knows.
 
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