CU has rejoined the Big 12 and broken college football - talking out asses continues

[manhattanbuff]

Worthless f***ing elitists. if you want to be an elitists, you better be elite

Colorado Administration Views the Big 12 as a 'JUCO League'

With conference realignment back in full swing, there has been plenty of speculation as to whether or not the Pac-12 could fall apart in the near future. If it does, could teams end up in the Big 12? One team that has come up as a possible future Big 12 team is Colorado, who of […]

www.heartlandcollegesports.com

Who TF is Sean Keeler? Or is it Keller? (The website you’re quoting doesn’t have money for editors). I’m disinclined to think that a general sports writer for the DP has much inside knowledge about the University of Colorado.

 

[DBT]

Who TF is Sean Keeler? Or is it Keller? (The website you’re quoting doesn’t have money for editors). I’m disinclined to think that a general sports writer for the DP has much inside knowledge about the University of Colorado.

It’s Keeler. He’s the Post’s college sports guy. He actually had some good points. His point about CU’s biggest donors being on the West Coast is probably valid and probably why the administration would prefer to stay in the Pac.

 

[PAHIBuff]

We get our internet and our TV through Xfinity with an add-on sports package of some type. It includes PAC12, BTN, and MW. My wife has an MLB subscription so we can see almost all the Rockies games when (if) we want to. She’s an avid Rocks fan. I don’t know what the sports add or the MLB costs. I am able to see most CU games and most Wyoming games.

There are almost zero live sports events here in Arizona that hold any interest for me, although I might take in a few Tucson Roadrunners (AHL) hockey games in the fall. Thirty bucks and a 20 minute drive “downtown” with a good excuse to visit some of the Mexican food places down there.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

One thing to keep in mind with ESPN+: The Disney bundle (Disney+, Hulu, ESPN+) is staying at $13.99. I'd wonder if the vast majority of people who have ESPN+ by itself will change to the bundle.

It sounds like this is a play to try increasing subscriber counts by making people switch to the bundle from the individual plan.

Disney has a goal of reaching 230 million to 260 million Disney+ subscribers by the end of 2024. Disney ended last quarter with 137.7 million global Disney+ subscribers and 22.3 million ESPN+ customers.

While Disney doesn’t break out how many of the more than 22 million ESPN+ subscribers are paying for it through the bundle, narrowing the price difference between only paying for ESPN+ and paying for all three Disney streaming services should move some solo ESPN+ customers toward the bundle. That will help increase the aggregate Disney+ number, potentially enabling Disney to reach its 2024 target.

Does ESPN+ have a lot of live content? I was under the impression that it had a lot of UFC, soccer, etc. but almost nothing in the basketball and football space.

Correct. You still, for now, have to subscribe to some traditional set top service to watch whats on ESPN.

Still, ESPN+ isn’t an exact replica of cable network ESPN, which shows all “Monday Night Football” games and many National Basketball Association games that aren’t yet available on ESPN+. The ESPN cable channel continues to take in billions of dollarsannually for Disney, though sales fall each year as millions of Americans cancel traditional pay TV.

They are really just waiting for the tipping point where ESPN+ subscribers catch up with set top subscribers. Once that happens youll probably be able to watch ESPN on ESPN+.

 

[dio]

You guys are all nuts, trying to find things that fit your internal political narrative.

CU admin doesn't think ANYTHING of the Big12.

That is the problem. CUs issues are all internal, because CU always has its eyes inward. This is a result of the weird setup of the system, and the fact we have to elect the BoR. That political competition permeates down through the campuses.

If you asked the MBA program at CU Denver who their biggest competition was, do you know who they would say? CU Boulder and UCCS. Not CSU Global, or DU, or any other local, regional, or national colleges.

So this notion that the faculty or administration at CUB is looking down on the Big12 is farcical. Because none of them care. They are focused on their own internal stuff and frankly don't think about any of this.

The Advancement office and Alumni Association likely does care about access to California, but that's about it.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

It’s Keeler. He’s the Post’s college sports guy. He actually had some good points. His point about CU’s biggest donors being on the West Coast is probably valid and probably why the administration would prefer to stay in the Pac.

Greater than 10% of students in a year are from California. The next biggest is 3% from Texas and 3% from Illinois.

We also know that a greater percentage of Alums live in California over other states.

I have not interest in anything in Texas or the old Big8. I would be disappointed if we went backwards.

 

[ahoelsken]

It sounds like this is a play to try increasing subscriber counts by making people switch to the bundle from the individual plan.

Disney has a goal of reaching 230 million to 260 million Disney+ subscribers by the end of 2024. Disney ended last quarter with 137.7 million global Disney+ subscribers and 22.3 million ESPN+ customers.

While Disney doesn’t break out how many of the more than 22 million ESPN+ subscribers are paying for it through the bundle, narrowing the price difference between only paying for ESPN+ and paying for all three Disney streaming services should move some solo ESPN+ customers toward the bundle. That will help increase the aggregate Disney+ number, potentially enabling Disney to reach its 2024 target.




Correct. You still, for now, have to subscribe to some traditional set top service to watch whats on ESPN.

Still, ESPN+ isn’t an exact replica of cable network ESPN, which shows all “Monday Night Football” games and many National Basketball Association games that aren’t yet available on ESPN+. The ESPN cable channel continues to take in billions of dollarsannually for Disney, though sales fall each year as millions of Americans cancel traditional pay TV.

They are really just waiting for the tipping point where ESPN+ subscribers catch up with set top subscribers. Once that happens youll probably be able to watch ESPN on ESPN+.

No question. The ESPN+ increase is much ado about nothing. The vast majority of the 22.3M subs to that alone will go to the bundle.

 

[CarolinaBuff]

Who TF is Sean Keeler? Or is it Keller? (The website you’re quoting doesn’t have money for editors). I’m disinclined to think that a general sports writer for the DP has much inside knowledge about the University of Colorado.

It’s Keeler. He’s the Post’s college sports guy. He actually had some good points. His point about CU’s biggest donors being on the West Coast is probably valid and probably why the administration would prefer to stay in the Pac.

Keeler said he "thinks" the administration is 70-30 in favor of staying in the Pac12 so this is just his best guess, although unfortunately he may not far off on that guess. But he also went on to say this so hopefully this administration has some foresight:

If true, then the Colorado administration is going to rue the day that they got left in the Pac-12 and left millions of dollars on the table to stay in an unstable conference due to “prestige”, or something.

 

[Liver]

listen to @dio -- our admin doesn't give enough ****s about football to have an opinion on conference alignment-- worst ****ing set up ever. in california, regents serve like 12 year terms and are a blend of appointed and others depending on offices held and such. CU admin is in the stone age when it comes to running a cohesive functioning visionary system of schools.

sports are so far down the list of things these ****s care about--- as long as they don't bleed money or "embarrass" the admin, that is all they care about. winning, alumni, booster, and community engagement don't mean **** to them. alabama has increased its academic standing by light years during the saban era-- this is not a coincidence. they get kids from more parts of the country then ever before and they can be more selective about admissions than ever before. and, donations across the board are up because engagement with your community and people lifts alll boats.

these points have been made, repeatedly, for years and years, to various CU pols and admins. but, they.just.don.t.give.a.****.

 

[CarolinaBuff]

Yes

 

[White_Rabbit]

Who TF is Sean Keeler? Or is it Keller? (The website you’re quoting doesn’t have money for editors). I’m disinclined to think that a general sports writer for the DP has much inside knowledge about the University of Colorado.

That's what I was thinking. From the long form 365 video, he isn't a Colorado guy. I think he's actually a Nebraska or Iowa guy. He joined the DP in 2018. He damn sure didn't gain much insight in 2020. I got the impression he's throwing around random conjecture and random numbers with no real basis on anything. Dude is probably perusing allbuffs as his source

If Adam or someone of that sort wants to throw around numbers, I'll give that some weight

Keeler? more like LoLer

 

[BerkeleyBuff]

Greater than 10% of students in a year are from California. The next biggest is 3% from Texas and 3% from Illinois.

We also know that a greater percentage of Alums live in California over other states.

I have not interest in anything in Texas or the old Big8. I would be disappointed if we went backwards.

It's nuts how our/ the state's funding model makes it so that the University of Colorado has a student population that is 45% non-resident. CSU is doing much better at serving the residents of Colorado, but their % is declining steadily too last I checked.

 

[manhattanbuff]

Keeler said he "thinks" the administration is 70-30 in favor of staying in the Pac12 so this is just his best guess, although unfortunately he may not far off on that guess. But he also went on to say this so hopefully this administration has some foresight:

My issue is that there’s a grouping of people who use his speculation as gospel because it confirms their existing biases, including the elitist narrative. The guy doesn’t have any better insight into the psyche of decisionmakers at Colorado since he’s not an insider. He doesn’t have sources or scoops.

I fully expect the admin to screw up football because there’s nobody on campus who knows how to do football correctly. We’re just floating in the toilet bowl. The plumber’s on the way to get us all the way down.

 

[Go Buffs]

The plumber’s on the way to get us all the way down.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

It's nuts how our/ the state's funding model makes it so that the University of Colorado has a student population that is 45% non-resident. CSU is doing much better at serving the residents of Colorado, but their % is declining steadily too last I checked.

Yeah. There are others with name youd recognize.

• 5. University of Vermont(Burlington, VT): 75%
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• 6. University of Delaware(Newark, DE): 66%
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• 7. North Dakota State University(Fargo, ND): 65%
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• 8. The University of Alabama(Tuscaloosa, AL):63%
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• 9. University of Maryland, University College(Adelphi, MD): 62%
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• 10. University of North Dakota(Grand Forks, ND): 61%
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• 11. Delaware State University(Dover, DE): 60%
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• 12. Keene State College(Keene, NH): 59%
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• 12. University of Rhode Island(Kingston, RI): 59%
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• 13. Fort Lewis College(Durango, CO): 58%
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• 13. University of New Hampshire(Durham, NH): 58%
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• 14. University of Mississippi(University, MS): 57%
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• 15. Coastal Carolina University(Conway, SC): 54%
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• 15. University of North Carolina School of the Arts(Winston-Salem, NC): 54%
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• 16. Harris–Stowe State University(St. Louis, MO): 52%
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• 16. Kentucky State University(Frankfort, KY): 52%
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• 16. Peru State College(Peru, NE): 52%
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• 17. Central State University(Wilberforce, OH): 51%
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• 17. Langston University(Langston, OK): 51%
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• 17. Lincoln University(Lincoln University, PA): 51%
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• 18. University of Arkansas(Fayetteville, AR): 50%
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• 18. University of Wisconsin — River Falls(River Falls, WI): 50%
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• 18. University of Wyoming(Laramie, WY): 50%
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• 19. Colorado School of Mines(Golden, CO): 49%
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• 19. Jackson State University(Jackson, MS): 49%
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• 19. Montana State University — Bozeman(Bozeman, MT): 49%
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• 19. University of Colorado Boulder(Boulder, CO): 49%
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• 19. University of Oregon(Eugene, OR): 49%
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• 20. West Virginia University(Morgantown, WV): 48%
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• 21. University of Wisconsin — Superior(Superior, WI): 46%
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• 22. University of Maine(Orono, ME): 45%
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• 22. University of Michigan — Ann Arbor (Ann Arbor, MI): 45%

Percentage of Out-of-State Students at Public Universities

No brilliant description needed: this list is just the facts. <br><br> FYI, this list is from <a href="http://www.wintergreenorchardhouse.com/store.php?cat=resources" target="_blank"><em>The College Finder,</em></a> 2017 edition now available! Search Thousands Of Colleges And Scholarships. Join...

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[dio]

My issue is that there’s a grouping of people who use his speculation as gospel because it confirms their existing biases, including the elitist narrative. The guy doesn’t have any better insight into the psyche of decisionmakers at Colorado since he’s not an insider. He doesn’t have sources or scoops.

I fully expect the admin to screw up football because there’s nobody on campus who knows how to do football correctly. We’re just floating in the toilet bowl. The plumber’s on the way to get us all the way down.

Precisely. There is a caricature of the administration that just isn't reality. People aren't sitting around thinking about politics in relation to the athletic conference.

Every campus is thinking the same three things:

1) How do I increase applications and improve yield
2) How do we improve student retention rates
3) How do we increase fundraising and capital projects

That's it. Athletics feeds into #3, and would impact #1 except that CU Boulder is a destination school that isn't impacted by normal market forces.

#3 might influence the administration to stay in the Pac12. Not because of snooty politics, but because it is rational.

There is 100% a failure at CU Boulder to recognize the value of athletics.... But CU Boulder frankly hasn't needed that value.

That is why if I was President, I would do everything.possible to combine the campuses, create a single brand, and make athletics a part of UCD, UCCS, and Anschutz. Get those campuses invested, because they are the ones who could use that marketing punch.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

Precisely. There is a caricature of the administration that just isn't reality. People aren't sitting around thinking about politics in relation to the athletic conference.

Every campus is thinking the same three things:

1) How do I increase applications and improve yield
2) How do we improve student retention rates
3) How do we increase fundraising and capital projects

That's it. Athletics feeds into #3, and would impact #1 except that CU Boulder is a destination school that isn't impacted by normal market forces.

#3 might influence the administration to stay in the Pac12. Not because of snooty politics, but because it is rational.

There is 100% a failure at CU Boulder to recognize the value of athletics.... But CU Boulder frankly hasn't needed that value.

That is why if I was President, I would do everything.possible to combine the campuses, create a single brand, and make athletics a part of UCD, UCCS, and Anschutz. Get those campuses invested, because they are the ones who could use that marketing punch.

I don’t think staying in the Pac is a slum dunk as a rational thing to do as it relates to fundraising and capital projects. Maybe 11 years ago and when SC and UCLA were still in the conference and CU was planning on being in SoCal at least once a year (for football, multiple times for hoops and oly sports), but not in a world where CU athletics no longer has a presence there and maybe only once every few years in NorCal.

 

[dio]

I don’t think staying in the Pac is a slum dunk as a rational thing to do as it relates to fundraising and capital projects. Maybe 11 years ago and when SC and UCLA were still in the conference and CU was planning on being in SoCal at least once a year (for football, multiple times for hoops and oly sports), but not in a world where CU athletics no longer has a presence there and maybe only once every few years in NorCal.

I agree, but there is a line of attack in this thread that implies moving to the Big12 is a slamdunk.

The fact of the matter is there are very valid reasons the school might want to stay in the Pac12 besides bottom line media dollars. There are very good reasons to move to the Big12 as well.

It isn't perfectly obvious to me one is better then the other. I think it is close to 50/50. My gut and preference is to stay in the Pac, but either move is like being on quicksand.

 

[FLounder]

Guys I have a great idea..

we can get back into socal by switching over to the B1G! I don’t know if you know, but USC and UCLA just joined, so it would give us an “in” with socal recruits

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

I agree, but there is a line of attack in this thread that implies moving to the Big12 is a slamdunk.

The fact of the matter is there are very valid reasons the school might want to stay in the Pac12 besides bottom line media dollars. There are very good reasons to move to the Big12 as well.

It isn't perfectly obvious to me one is better then the other. I think it is close to 50/50. My gut and preference is to stay in the Pac, but either move is like being on quicksand.

Ok, but I don’t see how being in the Pac as an athletic conference fulfills #1 and #2 on your list and I’ve already stated how I don’t really see it fulfilling #3 at this point in time either. So, at the end of the day, what are the pros to being in this conference, if the media money isn’t the same or better than what it would be in the B12?

 

[Bison]

I might appear to be more pro Big 12 but I’m 50-50 and I want better TV distribution for the third tier rights. The P12N failed to deliver as promised not only distribution but also revenue.

I expect an update on the P12N next week if not this week. If it’s the same old stuff with the P12N, let’s just pack our bags for the Big 12.

 

[CarolinaBuff]

Senior editor at WildcatAuthority.com

 

[dio]

Ok, but I don’t see how being in the Pac as an athletic conference fulfills #1 and #2 on your list and I’ve already stated how I don’t really see it fulfilling #3 at this point in time either. So, at the end of the day, what are the pros to being in this conference, if the media money isn’t the same or better than what it would be in the B12?

Fair question. I won't go into the ins and outs of recruiting and business development.... But admissions offices and alumni offices like to hold events in prime territories. This includes things such as dinners, cocktail hours, speakers, etc.

It is very easy to pair that with football. There is a dinner, pregame BBQ, post game party.... Whatever. The game is naturally amplified in the local market. You are going to get much higher attendance, and perhaps a better target audience doing that in LA, San Diego, San Francisco, Portland or Seattle (for CUs demographic) compared to Big12 cities.

Now combine that with your advertising dollars, which act as multiplier on that. These are CU friendly markets with lots of alums and a density of prospective students. CU doesn't get that with Lubbock, Manhatten, Ames, Stillwater, Lawrence, Waco, Morgantown, Orlando, or Cincinnati.

CU might be much better served from a non-athletic view looping in San Diego, Las Vegas and Boise. Who knows.

It is entirely rational to not want to lose the obvious athletic connection to those areas.

 

[SpacemanSpiff]

First I’ve seen Stanford and Cal tied to Az and CU to the Big12. Could be a lot of hooey.

 

[CarolinaBuff]

First I’ve seen Stanford and Cal tied to Az and CU to the Big12. Could be a lot of hooey.

It sounds more like ND is wanting to throw Stanford a lifeline in their negotiations with NBC and the Big12

 

[SpacemanSpiff]

It sounds more like ND is wanting to throw Stanford a lifeline in their negotiations with NBC and the Big12

I must be missing something. Why would ND care about Stanford?

 

[CarolinaBuff]

I must be missing something. Why would ND care about Stanford?

Not sure, maybe because of their longtime rivalry with Stanford and therefore they want to keep Stanford football at least somewhat relevant.

But I find it hard to believe Cal and Stanford would be willing to join the Big12

 

[Buffnik]

It sounds more like ND is wanting to throw Stanford a lifeline in their negotiations with NBC and the Big12

Here's what doesn't make sense to me on the math.

Allegedly, whether it's the 4C or CU/UA/Cal/Furd, the combination of 4 Pac programs is valuable enough to earn more money for themselves and twelve Big 12 partners.

Also, 2 other Pac members - UO & UW - are more valuable than any of the 6 programs mentioned that could be the revenue-increasing 4 which would be welcomed to the Big 12.

But we are supposed to believe this while also believing the Pac has negligible media value.

It doesn't add up.

 

[manhattanbuff]

I must be missing something. Why would ND care about Stanford?

Notre Dame’s independence relies upon their historic rivals staying in business.

 

[skibum]

But I find it hard to believe Cal and Stanford would be willing to join the Big12

Stanford I don't buy, but Cal is looking at needing to pay a whole lot of debt, and being on the hook for large debt payments can change one's priorities in a hurry.