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CU players in the NFL

BuffsNYC

Clubber Lang
Club Member
Montez is one of the more overrated players to ever play at Colorado. Colorado will be fine.
Sure, eventually. The starting QB for the University of Colorado Golden Buffaloes this coming season will likely have little or no experience playing CFB.
 

manhattanbuf

Club Member
Club Member
Sure, eventually. The starting QB for the University of Colorado Golden Buffaloes this coming season will likely have little or no experience playing CFB.
It’s not like we got “very experienced” production from Montez. Plus, if you have a QB with plus athleticism and good fundamentals, that negates a ton of the experience factor.
 

BuffsNYC

Clubber Lang
Club Member
It’s not like we got “very experienced” production from Montez. Plus, if you have a QB with plus athleticism and good fundamentals, that negates a ton of the experience factor.
I agree that Montez underperformed. Still, I think an experienced QB is usually worth a couple of wins. Who know though? Maybe we'll get USC/ASU production levels from last season from our QBs.
 

manhattanbuf

Club Member
Club Member
I agree that Montez underperformed. Still, I think an experienced QB is usually worth a couple of wins. Who know though? Maybe we'll get USC/ASU production levels from last season from our QBs.
I honestly cannot point to a game that Montez won for us last year (maybe even last two years). There were games in which he did well enough to win. I don’t think he took any of them over and showed out as the best player on the field.
 

Buffnik

Real name isn't Nik
Club Member
Junta Member
I honestly cannot point to a game that Montez won for us last year (maybe even last two years). There were games in which he did well enough to win. I don’t think he took any of them over and showed out as the best player on the field.
You've got to give him ASU this year and UCLA last year. Beyond that, there were winning plays or quarters but very few full games. CSU, but I guess we can say that any JAG quarterback could have gotten us wins in those games.
 

WasianCU

Moderator
Club Member
I honestly cannot point to a game that Montez won for us last year (maybe even last two years). There were games in which he did well enough to win. I don’t think he took any of them over and showed out as the best player on the field.
I might be remembering incorrectly but it feels like he carried the team in the Arizona State game this last season along with Tony Brown.
 

manhattanbuf

Club Member
Club Member
You've got to give him ASU this year and UCLA last year. Beyond that, there were winning plays or quarters but very few full games. CSU, but I guess we can say that any JAG quarterback could have gotten us wins in those games.
I might be remembering incorrectly but it feels like he carried the team in the Arizona State game this last season along with Tony Brown.
I can see the ASU game from last year (along with T. Brown) with 3 TDs and no turnovers. That’s also a game where we had over 125 yards rushing, so some of the “took over the game” luster is lost on me.

But, this sorta demonstrates my point: even if you also concede the UCLA game from two years ago too, it’s not like Montez was a beast above replacement compared to a highish prep prospect. That’s two games in two years where a QB with an NFL arm and NFL level WRs was able to make a major impact. I salute Montez as a fellow Buff, but am not enamored by him.

Previous two staffs were handcuffed with Montez and it hurt the program’s ability to get to bowls.
 

DrunkRalphie

Well-Known Member
Montez is one of the more overrated players to ever play at Colorado. Colorado will be fine.
He set most of the relevant QB records at CU while playing under two different head coaches, three different offensive coordinators and three different QB coaches. While mostly playing with a roster that produced sub .500 records outside of 2016. Steven Montez, while not perfect was hardly the problem during his years in Boulder.
 

manhattanbuf

Club Member
Club Member
He set most of the relevant QB records at CU while playing under two different head coaches, three different offensive coordinators and three different QB coaches. While mostly playing with a roster that produced sub .500 records outside of 2016. Steven Montez was hardly the problem during his years in Boulder.
Ahhh yes, BUT HE SET THE RECORDS.

This is why Montez is overrated. He played a lot for bad teams and got to pass a lot. He was not a difference maker.
 

DrunkRalphie

Well-Known Member
Ahhh yes, BUT HE SET THE RECORDS.

This is why Montez is overrated. He played a lot for bad teams and got to pass a lot. He was not a difference maker.
And yet no one ever mentions the dog **** defenses he had to overcome. For some unexplainable reason they get a pass and not a single mention why he was constantly throwing and playing from behind. Inconvenient to the narrative I guess.
 

manhattanbuf

Club Member
Club Member
And yet no one ever mentions the dog **** defenses he had to overcome. For some unexplainable reason they get a pass and not a single mention why he was constantly throwing and playing from behind. Inconvenient to the narrative I guess.
Look at the offensive ranks, dude. It is not pretty. Fifth year senior in charge of the #100 scoring offense! All the D’s fault. Dude was mega JAGy. It was made worse by the fact that we didn’t recruit anyone to push him or replace him.
 

DrunkRalphie

Well-Known Member
Look at the offensive ranks, dude. It is not pretty. Fifth year senior in charge of the #100 scoring offense! All the D’s fault. Dude was mega JAGy. It was made worse by the fact that we didn’t recruit anyone to push him or replace him.
Looking at the overall efficiency rankings CU finished:

2017 - 54
2018 - 85
2019 - 71



While not overly impressive when you consider the final rank of the recruiting classes he played with, the utter failure of the defenses he was saddled with and Sefo's rankings (2016 - 65, 2015 - 89, 2014 - 46), the predecessor he's most often compared to, he did just fine.

But I forgot, random dudes off the street set records all the time.

He probably just lacked ambition.
 

manhattanbuf

Club Member
Club Member
Looking at the overall efficiency rankings CU finished:

2017 - 54
2018 - 85
2019 - 71



While not overly impressive when you consider the final rank of the recruiting classes he played with, the utter failure of the defenses he was saddled with and Sefo's rankings (2016 - 65, 2015 - 89, 2014 - 46), the predecessor he's most often compared to, he did just fine.

But I forgot, random dudes off the street set records all the time.

He probably just lacked ambition.
You are bad at this. What matters most? Scoring. Where did Colorado finish last year?

He was not very good. He was just there for bad teams with the need to pass.

He set records because the coaches were not ambitious enough to recruit over him. He was just there. He won a war with attrition and time. Woo hoo.
 

DrunkRalphie

Well-Known Member
You are bad at this. What matters most? Scoring. Where did Colorado finish last year?

He was not very good. He was just there for bad teams with the need to pass.

He set records because the coaches were not ambitious enough to recruit over him. He was just there. He won a war with attrition and time. Woo hoo.
Only lay people use raw statistics.

Sefo played with an average defense of 72 in efficiency with a high of 28. Montez in his final three years starting played with an average defense of 79 with a high of 58. He did just as much as his predecessor did with less.

If Sefo was a program hero so was Montez. The only defense between the two was a 2016 Jim Leavitt defense.

C'mon man, why are you so bad at this?
 

manhattanbuf

Club Member
Club Member
Only lay people use raw statistics.

Sefo played with an average defense of 72 in efficiency with a high of 28. Montez in his final three years starting played with an average defense of 79 with a high of 58. He did just as much as his predecessor did with less.

If Sefo was a program hero so was Montez. The only defense between the two was a 2016 Jim Leavitt defense.

C'mon man, why are you so bad at this?
I bet the games. I use scoring as my biggest metric. I won more than your annual salary betting the games. You can think whatever you want.

Teams win and lose based upon scoring only. The other stuff doesn’t do much in college football for evaluating offenses or defenses like advance stats do in evaluating teams in other sports.

Colorado was 100th in scoring in 2019. You think Montez was great. That is LOL hilarious.
Colorado was 80th in scoring in 2018. You think Montez was great. That is LOL hilarious.
There are 130 FBS teams.

PS: Sefo was a warrior and a great leader but not that amazing of a player. That he held/holds a lot of CU passing records is indicative of how low the bar is set.
 

DrunkRalphie

Well-Known Member
I bet the games. I use scoring as my biggest metric. I won more than your annual salary betting the games. You can think whatever you want.

Teams win and lose based upon scoring only. The other stuff doesn’t do much in college football for evaluating offenses or defenses like advance stats do in evaluating teams in other sports.

Colorado was 100th in scoring in 2019. You think Montez was great. That is LOL hilarious.
Colorado was 80th in scoring in 2018. You think Montez was great. That is LOL hilarious.
There are 130 FBS teams.

PS: Sefo was a warrior and a great leader but not that amazing of a player. That he held/holds a lot of CU passing records is indicative of how low the bar is set.
I'm not entirely sure how your gambling habits are particularly germane to the discussion, but I've certainly picked up on your need to tell us all about it constantly over the past week. Over and over. Congrats, I guess. I couldn't really care less how you make your living or what your hobbies include.

Team PPG is impacted by many factors including ten other starters on offense and yes the most important position, QB. SP+ is intended to look at how efficiently teams moved the ball, scored points and made big plays. If that's not something considered when gambling so be it, fair enough. But just because it's not indicative of winning money doesn't mean it doesn't have value in digging further into the overall ability of offense isolating other team factors. In the end Montez has done just fine compared to other comparable CU quarterbacks of the era. You have a myopic view of teams and players based on a defined narrative. Great, it doesn't necessarily tell the whole story.

No argument really means much without context so that's the only reason I mention Sefo. Similar talent, similar competition, similar opponents. Sefo is held in high regard by most of the fan base in my anecdotal experience. Almost no difference in their production in the end.
 

manhattanbuf

Club Member
Club Member
I'm not entirely sure how your gambling habits are particularly germane to the discussion, but I've certainly picked up on your need to tell us all about it constantly over the past week. Over and over. Congrats, I guess. I couldn't really care less how you make your living or what your hobbies include.

Team PPG is impacted by many factors including ten other starters on offense and yes the most important position, QB. SP+ is intended to look at how efficiently teams moved the ball, scored points and made big plays. If that's not something considered when gambling so be it, fair enough. But just because it's not indicative of winning money doesn't mean it doesn't have value in digging further into the overall ability of offense isolating other team factors. In the end Montez has done just fine compared to other comparable CU quarterbacks of the era. You have a myopic view of teams and players based on a defined narrative. Great, it doesn't necessarily tell the whole story.

No argument really means much without context so that's the only reason I mention Sefo. Similar talent, similar competition, similar opponents. Sefo is held in high regard by most of the fan base in my anecdotal experience. Almost no difference in their production in the end.
Scoring (and scoring prevention) tells the whole story in college football.

Given the talent disparities, it is a really strong indicator for how well a team succeeds (or fails).

Sefo and Montez were both JAGs for Colorado. People like Sefo better because of his superior leadership and team spirit.

Colorado was really bad on offense for the better part of two years in large part because Montez was overrated by coaches and people like you. The offense was a liability. At first we thought it was because of the Air Raid. Turns out that it was simply a series of bad decisions by the QB. Attempting to justify anything else is simply a rosy revision.

Edit: my gambling success makes me better at understanding the games than you because I see the games from a more neutral standpoint. When you put your money where your mouth is, the BS/irrelevant stats like you’ve been spouting become noise.
 
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DrunkRalphie

Well-Known Member
Scoring (and scoring prevention) tells the whole story in college football.

Given the talent disparities, it is a really strong indicator for how well a team succeeds (or fails).

Sefo and Montez were both JAGs for Colorado. People like Sefo better because of his superior leadership and team spirit.

Colorado was really bad on offense for the better part of two years in large part because Montez was overrated by coaches and people like you. The offense was a liability. At first we thought it was because of the Air Raid. Turns out that it was simply a series of bad decisions by the QB. Attempting to justify anything else is simply a rosy revision.

Edit: my gambling success makes me better at understanding the games than you because I see the games from a more neutral standpoint. When you put your money where your mouth is, the BS/irrelevant stats like you’ve been spouting become noise.
It's truly an honor to be taught the game from the smartest guy on Allbuffs. Truly. Coach Karl if he's smart will hopefully be filling his staff with professional gamblers. Clearly the folks that understand the game the most.

I will admit it wad slightly disconcerting to discover my belief that Montez was a generally competent college quarterback was in part a cause of CU losing football games. I promise to view everyone as "neutral" as possible going forward. A sincere thank you for setting me straight on that.
 
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manhattanbuf

Club Member
Club Member
It's truly an honor to be taught the game from the smartest guy on Allbuffs. Truly. Coach Karl if he's smart will hopefully be filling his staff with professional gamblers. Clearly the folks that understand the game the most.

I will admit it wad slightly disconcerting to discover my belief that Montez was a generally competent college quarterback was in part a cause of CU losing football games. I promise to view everyone as "neutral" as possible going forward. A sincere thank you for setting me straight on that.
And I am happy that you’ve taken on one of the dumbest positions in the recent memory of this site with the self reflection of a gnat. Nice work!

edit: I read your message again. Interesting that you changed your entire position from “Montez was great” to “Montez was competent.” You could’ve just said, “yes, Manhattan, Montez was JAG. You’re right.” Instead, you played yourself again by agreeing with me and failing as a comedian. Bravo. Truly outstanding.
 
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DrunkRalphie

Well-Known Member
And I am happy that you’ve taken on one of the dumbest positions in the recent memory of this site with the self reflection of a gnat. Nice work!

edit: I read your message again. Interesting that you changed your entire position from “Montez was great” to “Montez was competent.” You could’ve just said, “yes, Manhattan, Montez was JAG. You’re right.” Instead, you played yourself again by agreeing with me and failing as a comedian. Bravo. Truly outstanding.
I find it a completely acceptable response to unapologetic hubris and general non-sequitors.

If you want to play semantics now that's fine. To be great I think it follows one would also be competent. But hey, nothing gives somebody more granular insight into individual player analysis than betting spreads.
 

DrunkRalphie

Well-Known Member
You've got to give him ASU this year and UCLA last year. Beyond that, there were winning plays or quarters but very few full games. CSU, but I guess we can say that any JAG quarterback could have gotten us wins in those games.
****braska in 2018 and 2019.
 
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