i think were rapidly moving towards an age where good defense means turnovers and defensive scores and not necessarily yards and points given up
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Dana Holgorsen - HC West Virginia
- Thread starter Buffnik
- Start date
i think were rapidly moving towards an age where good defense means turnovers and defensive scores and not necessarily yards and points given up
At the end of the day, it's always come down to whether your team has more scoring drives than your opponent. Doesn't matter how you do it.
But, yeah, it appears that these modern offenses with the modern rules are pretty much impossible to hold under 30 points in a game. Game has changed. Defense is about forcing turnovers or negative plays (sacks & TFLs) that lead to stops. TOP and yards are becoming stats with little meaning.
this article tries to make the point you should look at the yards and points per drive rather than the total numbers, even for points
https://thebiglead.com/2018/11/20/t...ear-and-the-chiefs-played-the-rams-tough-too/
i am not sure how i feel about it myself, at the end of the day 2 thirds of the game are getting rendered somewhat meaningless, but the trend is clear .... probably
Defense isn't rendered meaningless, it is just changed. A much higher value gets placed on guys who can make situation changing plays. Guys who can create turnovers, who can make plays for loss, who can put the opponent into situations were they can't dictate or use the full playbook.
Especially if facing an offense like I'm seeing from OU behind an OL that might be the best in the nation. You can't line up and stop that. You can't even slow that down much. All you can do is sell out to get some turnovers and maybe get some sacks that will let you gag out a stop to force a punt every so often.
Do you think if OU plays against Bama/Clemson, their offense is going to be good like this?
Yes. They dropped 48 on Georgia in the playoff last year and they're better this year. (Problem is that Georgia scored 54.)
I don’t think the OU defense would want any part of this iteration of the Bama offense.
If Denver had an offense, they would be better than both the Chiefs and Rams. Denver allowed the fewest pts/pos for both of them.
I remain 99% convinced that Dana’s agent is using us for a big fat raise at WVU but I’m intrigued at the 1% chance that we might see him on the sidelines at Folsom next year. That offense is sick! And I’m excited if we are really fishing in deep waters.
I'm also intrigued about Lake as HC and poaching Spavital as OC. Maybe 5% chance of that. (Extra intriguing since Spavital recruited Kyler Murray at ATM.) Getting my hopes up either way.
The DC is a guy who has been at WVU forever and is attached to RichRod. He wouldn't be coming with Dana.
Sold.
lawdogg
Club Member
True to your point, defensive scoop and scores were the difference today.
Defensive coordinator is a problem at WVU. I'm not even talking scheme or play calls because Riley's offense can make anyone look bad on that stuff. But the tackling was bad and I saw some awful DB technique with guys getting turned around or not being sound in their assignments. You'd think those guys would get enough practice covering receivers going against their own offense, right? That was inexcusable.
Jaximus
Club Member
And yet I would trade our programs in a heart beat.
buffalo1
Club Member
Hmmm, I'd have to say I have grown weary of CU's DBs trailing the WR and NEVER looking back to find the ball, only to have the ball land nicely in the WR hands.
I did not like the football being played by WVU v OU last night. It definitely is not something I would like at CU, but I'm Old School.
And that's one reason we were frustrated by HCMM. He held onto failing coaches too long. Even if WVU's DC was not Holgorsen's man, a good head coach would make adjustments if the defense was that bad.
I don’t see why you can’t realistically build a program that has an offense that averages ~40 and a defense that gives up ~26. There’s some give and take with O vs D in that regard but if WVU had a DC worth a ****, they wouldn’t be in the position they are giving up 40+ every game.
Holgerson and a proven, $1m+ DC would be interesting.
Holgerson and a proven, $1m+ DC would be interesting.
Jeric
Club Member
You just described West Virginia. They've only given up 40+ to Texas, OU, and OKST. They've played pretty well defensively otherwise.
I went and read the WVU board on 247 last night. Found out they had 5 of their top 6 linebackers out with injury last night. Was a big reason for some of the breakdowns, like losing that slot receiver who got behind the ILBs against zone in the back of the end zone for example.
Fair enough, I hadn’t really looked. I think they are averaging giving up right around 26 ppg actually. Could CU find a DC to go with Holgerson who would improve that to say 20-23 ppg and bring those outliers down to 35-40, instead of 40-50?
Jeric
Club Member
I've always been interested in how the Big 12 translates to the Pac-12. I'd assume Holgo's offense translates but would you see those defensive numbers improve or get worse? Wazzu is pretty good defensively at 23 ppg, but would they not give up those sort of numbers or worse in the Big 12? I wouldn't be mad if he brought over Gibson (hard to be mad in any world where Dana comes here but still) and we see how that works out, but I certainly wouldn't complain if we were willing to open the wallet for him and he felt the need to upgrade.