Dana Holgorsen - HC West Virginia

[Buffnik]

Interesting how many WVU fans simply couldn't care less if Holgorsen leaves. Remember he was on the hot seat not long ago, but made the adjustments. Could certainly do worse.

On Spavital, still haven't seen a fan base where he's coached say good things about him.

They, like most fan bases, have an inflated sense of how good their program is historically and how much they should be winning now. Their last 3 coaches won at a higher percentage (Don Nehlen, Rich Rodriguez, Bill Stewart). It's easy to ignore that most of their victories from those years weren't against teams that are in P5 conferences today. And the ones that are ain't exactly powerhouses. Little different when your biggest games are against Pitt and Cincinnati instead of Oklahoma and Texas.

Plus, Dana isn't exactly a people person (he gives zero ****s if you like him). So he doesn't engender a lot of sentimentality with the warm and fuzzies when people think about him.

 

[Denver_sc]

Why are we still on the "Chiv co-OC" train?

I'm not on the train- I'm pretty ambivalent to whether or not Chev stays.

I was mostly wondering what other people thought. My rationale was that Stitt is probably not ready to be a full-time P5 OC and we know that Chiv is not. I don't know that Chiv stays with the demotion to just WR coach, so this is the only way that it might work. If that's the only way it would work I personally would say no thanks but I was curious as to what others thought.

 

[Buffnik]

I'm not on the train- I'm pretty ambivalent to whether or not Chev stays.

I was mostly wondering what other people thought. My rationale was that Stitt is probably not ready to be a full-time P5 OC and we know that Chiv is not. I don't know that Chiv stays with the demotion to just WR coach, so this is the only way that it might work. If that's the only way it would work I personally would say no thanks but I was curious as to what others thought.

Why wouldn't Stitt be ready to be an OC? I don't know where you're coming from on that. He's designed offenses and called plays for almost 3 decades. Even had some success as an FCS head coach (21-14 record in 3 seasons at Montana) after a ton of success as a D2 HC at Mines for 15 seasons. I guess that Stitt is just an offensive analyst at Okie Lite this season. But do you really think that if we hired Holgorsen and then Dana made Stitt his OC that Stitt would need to share the role with another coach because he isn't ready for that much responsibility? I completely disagree with you here.

 

[Master Blaster]

Clearly biased (see avatar) but I would love to see what Stitt could do with our personnel on offense

 

[Denver_sc]

Why wouldn't Stitt be ready to be an OC? I don't know where you're coming from on that. He's designed offenses and called plays for almost 3 decades. Even had some success as an FCS head coach (21-14 record in 3 seasons at Montana) after a ton of success as a D2 HC at Mines for 15 seasons. I guess that Stitt is just an offensive analyst at Okie Lite this season. But do you really think that if we hired Holgorsen and then Dana made Stitt his OC that Stitt would need to share the role with another coach because he isn't ready for that much responsibility? I completely disagree with you here.

I acknowledge that I could be suffering from recency bias here, but it seems like CU's been burned by hiring small-time coaches trying to learn on the job. Again, I like Stitt- a lot. It would make me nervous to have an OC who's never served in that role in a major conference before, even if he could be very good at it. the risk is a lot lower if Holgo is the HC, though.

 

[Buffnik]

I acknowledge that I could be suffering from recency bias here, but it seems like CU's been burned by hiring small-time coaches trying to learn on the job. Again, I like Stitt- a lot. It would make me nervous to have an OC who's never served in that role in a major conference before, even if he could be very good at it. the risk is a lot lower if Holgo is the HC, though.

I think you're worried too much because of how we haven't had an OC who did it first in the big tent since... ever? But it's been a parade of lightweights in recent years who weren't even known as innovators at their previous stops. I get you on this one. But Stitt's not in that category. He's much more of a Chip Kelly type.

 

[Liver]

going to be interesting to see how this whole thing plays out-- dana has a shot at the conference if he can get by the dirt burglars. timing does matter in these things.

i'd be pretty stoked if he's the guy.

 

[CUAviator]

I acknowledge that I could be suffering from recency bias here, but it seems like CU's been burned by hiring small-time coaches trying to learn on the job. Again, I like Stitt- a lot. It would make me nervous to have an OC who's never served in that role in a major conference before, even if he could be very good at it. the risk is a lot lower if Holgo is the HC, though.

You're suffering from recency bias? Ha! That's all I see out this entire board! Example #1 - Dino Babers. But I agree with your take on Stitt.

 

[CUAviator]

Why wouldn't Stitt be ready to be an OC? I don't know where you're coming from on that. He's designed offenses and called plays for almost 3 decades. Even had some success as an FCS head coach (21-14 record in 3 seasons at Montana) after a ton of success as a D2 HC at Mines for 15 seasons. I guess that Stitt is just an offensive analyst at Okie Lite this season. But do you really think that if we hired Holgorsen and then Dana made Stitt his OC that Stitt would need to share the role with another coach because he isn't ready for that much responsibility? I completely disagree with you here.

But I thought being an offensive analyst was the new hotness.

 

[onealcd]

You're suffering from recency bias? Ha! That's all I see out this entire board! Example #1 - Dino Babers. But I agree with your take on Stitt.

I can’t even comprehend you saying babers is a small time coach that has to learn on the job.

 

[CUAviator]

I can’t even comprehend you saying babers is a small time coach that has to learn on the job.

I’m referencing regency bias. Babers beat Clemson last year but finished 4-8. Finished 4-8 in his only other season as a P5 coach. Has a winning record this year, was ranked, for his team blown apart by Clemson and Notre Dame. That is literally the definition of regency bias.

 

[onealcd]

I’m referencing regency bias. Babers beat Clemson last year but finished 4-8. Finished 4-8 in his only other season as a P5 coach. Has a winning record this year, was ranked, for his team blown apart by Clemson and Notre Dame. That is literally the definition of regency bias.

They didn’t get blown out by Clemson.

 

[CUAviator]

My clear #1. So, do we think CU has what it will take to win a bidding war with WVU?

Would it be better for us if WVU wins or loses the next one? Holgerson-wise.

 

[CUAviator]

They didn’t get blown out by Clemson.

Oh yeah. That’s right. It was Clemson’s backup BACKUP QB’s first game.

 

[Buffnik]

Dang that's sexy. I am more convinced than ever his agent is just using us for a raise, but this was my fav part:

It did seem like a piece his agent dictated to a friendly columnist - especially coming off a tough loss that barely got mentioned.

 

[Bliff Cranch]

Would it be better for us if WVU wins or loses the next one? Holgerson-wise.

I can’t think how a WVU win helps CU.

 

[Denver_sc]

I think you're worried too much because of how we haven't had an OC who did it first in the big tent since... ever? But it's been a parade of lightweights in recent years who weren't even known as innovators at their previous stops. I get you on this one. But Stitt's not in that category. He's much more of a Chip Kelly type.

That’s fair. I think that there are OCs who are amazing offensive schemers, those who are great coaches/recruiters, and those who have a great feel for in-game playcalling. I think Lindgren, for example, checked the first box but not much else. I am not sure Chiv checks any of them. I think Helfrich checks the last one but not the first two. Chip Kelly definitely has all three (or at least had it)

I think Stitt checks the first one (he’s got innovation in spades), I strongly suspect he’s got the second, but I’m not convinced on the last. He also has Colorado ties for recruiting purposes. I’d be on board with him as OC, but there are risks

 

[ahoelsken]

I acknowledge that I could be suffering from recency bias here, but it seems like CU's been burned by hiring small-time coaches trying to learn on the job. Again, I like Stitt- a lot. It would make me nervous to have an OC who's never served in that role in a major conference before, even if he could be very good at it. the risk is a lot lower if Holgo is the HC, though.

Who calls the plays for them? IIRC its Holgo. That continues I don't care if Chev keeps the title. The bigger thing with Holgorsen and any other Air Raid coach is the defensive coordinator hire IMO-That's what held Texas Tech (and still does) back.....Its why WSU struggled prior to the Pirate hiring Alex Grinch....and WVU's defenses aren't spectacular either. What I'd like to see him do if Santa RG pulls this off is bring Alex Grinch (who might have buyers remorse about going to Ohio State) with him as DC.

 

[Sheldon]

Would it be better for us if WVU wins or loses the next one? Holgerson-wise.

I can’t think how a WVU win helps CU.

Agree, completely.

Saws another post, maybe by @Buffnik talking about how highly they regard their team here. He's 100% correct. You'd seriously think there are about 4 schools in the world that can compete with WVU. Every loss they have, I have to hear about how its ALWAYS the officials. None want WVU to win. No one wants it, the game was rigged, etc. Sure, you hear some of that at times during the season with other schools, hell, I probably have used that excuse with our team before.... but with WVU fans, it is EVERY loss.

So, say he loses vs. Okla and whatever else happens to where they don't get into the BIG XII Champ, I can see him looking elsewhere. For either reason (his choice or theirs). It's not going to sit well with the fan base, and they will see it as the usual collapse by Holgs with the team he has. (Yes, most WVU fans feel Grier is the Heisman, with Sills at 2... and that is dead serious.)

An Oklahoma win really helps the case to get rid of Holgorsen. It's been close before, and I mean razor thin close to him being outed. He's not as sturdy as some believe (including some opinions I have read on this board). The fan base consistently yearns for his removal. He is NOT a West Virginian. I'm telling ya, it's all in on RichRod. He was their savior, and when he left, it opened a huge wound because of the supposed betrayal. They still feel like he threw the Pitt game simply to go to Mich, instead of attempting to play in the NC. They all complain and scream about RichRod, but ask them.... 90% would take him back INSTANTLY. And yes, that does include many of the higher ups within the University. He's a West Virginian. That doesn't fly in many other states, but here, you are taught to bleed Old Gold and Blue, the Mounties are life, and just a very few years ago, God Almighty himself couldn't have coached better than RichRod.

See what happens if Holgs gets pushed out, or we have an offer he cannot refuse.

$3.75-4 million per, he'd leave.

 

[CUAviator]

I can’t think how a WVU win helps CU.

By “us”, I meant All Buffs. Not necessarily Cu, where we now have to pay him more. Like, “hey, Holgorsen beat OU! He’s the man!”

 

[CUAviator]

Agree, completely.

Saws another post, maybe by @Buffnik talking about how highly they regard their team here. He's 100% correct. You'd seriously think there are about 4 schools in the world that can compete with WVU. Every loss they have, I have to hear about how its ALWAYS the officials. None want WVU to win. No one wants it, the game was rigged, etc. Sure, you hear some of that at times during the season with other schools, hell, I probably have used that excuse with our team before.... but with WVU fans, it is EVERY loss.

So, say he loses vs. Okla and whatever else happens to where they don't get into the BIG XII Champ, I can see him looking elsewhere. For either reason (his choice or theirs). It's not going to sit well with the fan base, and they will see it as the usual collapse by Holgs with the team he has. (Yes, most WVU fans feel Grier is the Heisman, with Sills at 2... and that is dead serious.)

An Oklahoma win really helps the case to get rid of Holgorsen. It's been close before, and I mean razor thin close to him being outed. He's not as sturdy as some believe (including some opinions I have read on this board). The fan base consistently yearns for his removal. He is NOT a West Virginian. I'm telling ya, it's all in on RichRod. He was their savior, and when he left, it opened a huge wound because of the supposed betrayal. They still feel like he threw the Pitt game simply to go to Mich, instead of attempting to play in the NC. They all complain and scream about RichRod, but ask them.... 90% would take him back INSTANTLY. And yes, that does include many of the higher ups within the University. He's a West Virginian. That doesn't fly in many other states, but here, you are taught to bleed Old Gold and Blue, the Mounties are life, and just a very few years ago, God Almighty himself couldn't have coached better than RichRod.

See what happens if Holgs gets pushed out, or we have an offer he cannot refuse.

$3.75-4 million per, he'd leave.

They do realize that when RichRod was roaming the sidelines they were in the Big East?

 

[Buffnik]

Would it be better for us if WVU wins or loses the next one? Holgerson-wise.

If we've got the money and he's got the interest, I don't think it matters and you can make a case either way.

If WVU loses, he'd be available immediately and could start the work on recruiting & finishing this recruiting class.

if WVU wins, he's coaching there next week in the Big 12 Championship and we would lose that week but would gain a much more marquee coach - especially if he then won by beating either OU or UT a second time to take the title.

 

[Buffnik]

They do realize that when RichRod was roaming the sidelines they were in the Big East?

I was checking the 247 board and the vast majority don't recognize that as important. There are a handful who will point out that while WVU may be like #15 or something in all-time wins, like 60% of those wins are against teams that aren't in the P5 today. Most of them get pissed at that suggestion and think they have an elite, national top 15 program - Top 25 or 30 at the most conservative and humble analysis.

Also, most don't want to acknowledge that the in-state talent is a negative or that having some of the worst facilities in P5 is something that should hold them back.

 

[Sheldon]

They do realize that when RichRod was roaming the sidelines they were in the Big East?

Yeah, they know that.

It doesn't matter.

Trust me. I live this nightmare daily. It's impossible to point out any flaw with WVU or RichRod.

 

[Liver]

jeez, if dh falls into our lap because of their craziness, i am gonna be shocked.

 

[Sheldon]

jeez, if dh falls into our lap because of their craziness, i am gonna be shocked.

It goes back to how prestigious they feel their program is.

I don't read their boards, I only know from my time at their games and all the fans I work with/associate with.

They all feel, minimum Top 10 program.

 

[ahoelsken]

Agree, completely.

Saws another post, maybe by @Buffnik talking about how highly they regard their team here. He's 100% correct. You'd seriously think there are about 4 schools in the world that can compete with WVU. Every loss they have, I have to hear about how its ALWAYS the officials. None want WVU to win. No one wants it, the game was rigged, etc. Sure, you hear some of that at times during the season with other schools, hell, I probably have used that excuse with our team before.... but with WVU fans, it is EVERY loss.

So, say he loses vs. Okla and whatever else happens to where they don't get into the BIG XII Champ, I can see him looking elsewhere. For either reason (his choice or theirs). It's not going to sit well with the fan base, and they will see it as the usual collapse by Holgs with the team he has. (Yes, most WVU fans feel Grier is the Heisman, with Sills at 2... and that is dead serious.)

An Oklahoma win really helps the case to get rid of Holgorsen. It's been close before, and I mean razor thin close to him being outed. He's not as sturdy as some believe (including some opinions I have read on this board). The fan base consistently yearns for his removal. He is NOT a West Virginian. I'm telling ya, it's all in on RichRod. He was their savior, and when he left, it opened a huge wound because of the supposed betrayal. They still feel like he threw the Pitt game simply to go to Mich, instead of attempting to play in the NC. They all complain and scream about RichRod, but ask them.... 90% would take him back INSTANTLY. And yes, that does include many of the higher ups within the University. He's a West Virginian. That doesn't fly in many other states, but here, you are taught to bleed Old Gold and Blue, the Mounties are life, and just a very few years ago, God Almighty himself couldn't have coached better than RichRod.

See what happens if Holgs gets pushed out, or we have an offer he cannot refuse.

$3.75-4 million per, he'd leave.

Is it just me or do WVU fans sound like a certain group of red clad fans we don't particularly care for?

 

[CUAviator]

I was checking the 247 board and the vast majority don't recognize that as important. There are a handful who will point out that while WVU may be like #15 or something in all-time wins, like 60% of those wins are against teams that aren't in the P5 today. Most of them get pissed at that suggestion and think they have an elite, national top 15 program - Top 25 or 30 at the most conservative and humble analysis.

Also, most don't want to acknowledge that the in-state talent is a negative or that having some of the worst facilities in P5 is something that should hold them back.

Yeah, they know that.

It doesn't matter.

Trust me. I live this nightmare daily. It's impossible to point out any flaw with WVU or RichRod.

There is a very specific reason I hate WVU - when I was in junior high, I’ll call it 1988, and I was dead set on going to USC. I kid I knew was from WV and we used to jaw about college football and I would argue that WVU’s success was achieved on the back of a dog**** schedule. I’ve felt that way about them basically intol they joined the Big XII. I still root for them to lose every game.

 

[CUAviator]

And my wife’s brother went to WVU. I don’t like him much.

 

[Sheldon]

I still root for them to lose every game.

I live here - WV (37 of my 41 years), I go to a good bit of the games up there, and yes, fully root for any other team they play.

I get asked all the time "Why do I root for Colorado when I was born and raised in WV... Why do you have all the gear, license plates, etc... Why not root for our home team..."

Simple answer.

I am smarter than whoever is asking.