FWIW, I think you both have a point here.
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#Fire Coach Dorrell
- Thread starter InTheBuff
- Start date
FWIW, I think you both have a point here.
I fully acknowledge that CU is a stepping stone job, but to suggest $4m/year to be the head coach at a P5 program isn't attractive to quite a few quality candidates is dumb. And no, I'm not limiting that to "one and done" candidates.
Is @Big Jim limiting his pool only to coaches who want to be Buffs?
I can't speak for him, but I don't think so. I think there is a talent pool for the CU job somewhere between somewhat deep and shallow. The money helps, but there are other factors to be addressed.
Medford M.
Well-Known Member
I think it's just time to admit that until CU commits to spending real money on the coaching staff, we aren't going anywhere. I'm actually in the fired Dorrell camp because with the recruiting situation, we're on pace to leave the next staff with a monumental rebuild if Dorrell and Co. are given another year of abysmal recruits.
Lots of talk about firing. Lots of talk about speculative takers. No big names interested. Three different HCs in the last five years.
Three FR quarterbacks, several FR wide recievers, and few upperclassman on offense. Underwhelming recruiting for years and years on end.
Everyone is, as usual, mad now.
Here is my question:
how many years will it take for a single HC to return us to consistency In terms of recruiting and positional balance? in other words, how long on average did it take an average coach (not elite) hired on somewhere in D1 to reach a turnaround? 3 years? 4 years? Five? Seven?
Three FR quarterbacks, several FR wide recievers, and few upperclassman on offense. Underwhelming recruiting for years and years on end.
Everyone is, as usual, mad now.
Here is my question:
how many years will it take for a single HC to return us to consistency In terms of recruiting and positional balance? in other words, how long on average did it take an average coach (not elite) hired on somewhere in D1 to reach a turnaround? 3 years? 4 years? Five? Seven?
Bliff Cranch
Well-Known Member
5 to 7 I’m afraid
I know we have budget constraints, but CU has not spent wisely within its budget.
On O, you spend money on a dynamic young OC/QB Coach (which is less $ than they've paid Chev).
You also pay for an established OL coach.
The rest of the O staff are recruiters.
D staff takes a well paid DC and a bunch of recruiters.
Recruiters can be young guys coming from the elite program GA ranks, from proven G5 (or even FCS) success, and from the HS or JC coaching ranks.
Support them with administrative staff and database management to drive communications & target high value footprints.
Invest in the other things that CU leadership will get behind by offering elite training, nutrition, health care, educational support, career assistance, etc.
If you do all that, you can hire coaches like Dorrell or MacIntyre who are program organization types.
Rarely going to have a great, playoff-contending team with this approach, but you'll have a solid program that consistently wins more than it loses.
On O, you spend money on a dynamic young OC/QB Coach (which is less $ than they've paid Chev).
You also pay for an established OL coach.
The rest of the O staff are recruiters.
D staff takes a well paid DC and a bunch of recruiters.
Recruiters can be young guys coming from the elite program GA ranks, from proven G5 (or even FCS) success, and from the HS or JC coaching ranks.
Support them with administrative staff and database management to drive communications & target high value footprints.
Invest in the other things that CU leadership will get behind by offering elite training, nutrition, health care, educational support, career assistance, etc.
If you do all that, you can hire coaches like Dorrell or MacIntyre who are program organization types.
Rarely going to have a great, playoff-contending team with this approach, but you'll have a solid program that consistently wins more than it loses.
I think it can be done in 3 years. It’s much easier to turn over a roster with the transfer portal.
Sonny Dykes at SMU. Over 20 transfers before his 2nd season.
Year 2 was 10 wins and top 25. And that was before the new rules.
Bliff Cranch
Well-Known Member
I hear you and you might be right. The challenge is the transfer portal is double-edge sword.
This staff has no choice since they can’t recruit, but the portal will be key next off-season, both obtained and retaining talent
Oh for sure. I just don’t think we’d have to wait 5-7 years with the right coach and proper infrastructure.
We could literally make half the class be FCS transfers and tremendously improve. Plenty of guys there who have shown they can play and would be an upgrade.
Not that I wouldn't want P5 guys who were frustrated with PT, but I'm talking at a minimum that could make us significantly better.
This staff (more importantly) can't coach. I'd settle for competency on the offensive side of the ball that could get us playing with what we have. There's a long list of teams that look very competent that even CU has out-recruited the last several years. All of these teams would man handle us, with lower recruited athletes and it wouldn't be close right now.
Iowa State
Cincinatti
Kansas State
Fresno State
Boise State (Every year, even when their coaches get poached)
Memphis
BYU
Buffsbball
Well-Known Member
The key difference on most of these teams is they aren’t power 5. Imagine playing Wyoming, New Mexico, Air Force, CSU every year
Who cares? They'd beat us up and they play plenty of P5 teams. Honestly, is the PAC12 better than the MWC right now? Honest question. The differences are smaller than I'd expected given the advantages to being P5? Styles have changed in CFB and being physical is important. All the teams I mentioned are well-coached, disciplined, and play tough. They have had poor recruiting.
Don't get me wrong, I like better recruits better than worse but the CU problems right now have less to do with talent than coaching.
Buffsbball
Well-Known Member
Short answer yes. You are basically picking the conference champion of every non power 5 team and being like hey why don’t we have the same success and record. The answer is Cincinnati doesn’t have to play Ohio state, Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Michigan, MSU every year. Iowa State has a coach that every top program wants they came in with top 10 expectations and got their ****rocked by another team in their own state this year. Kansas State has had one of the best coaches of all time (Bill Snyder) once they got rid of him they got bad real quick and brought him back and Klieman is a great coach but only 15-11 in 3 seasons. Being a consistently top 25 program in a power 5 conference ain’t easy.
I hear people mention this all the time - but what exact limitations do we put on ourselves?
15-11 in three seasons... I'd take that kind of crappy right now
Still confused by the Barnett knob slobbing. 2001 was awesome(ish). 2002, not bad, should have been better. 2003 - horrible. 2004/2005 - fluke winking the North on (on missed field goals in both seasons if I remember correctly) and absolute embarrassment in the B12 CCG. If you want to talk about how great he was because we made it to bowl games, cool. But to finish the conf .500 and win the North thanks to KSU, KU, ****ty Neb, mediocre ISU and think this guy is ****ting all kinds of football knowledge is revisionist history.
What does it mean to “emulate Vanderbilt”? ‘Cause we’re nowhere close academically. And we don’t have a baseball team, much less one that wins national championships.
For some bizarre reason; Rick George, Lance Carl, and a lot of CU fans
For the CU fan, mediocre is new awesome.
WWCD
Well-Known Member
I would kill for a team like 2004/2005 compared to what we've had the last 15 years.
If CU is their dream job, they aren’t ambitious enough
Stay within context. Is Barnett = Saban? Hell no. But compared to what we've had since he left, he's a GD savant. Dude has 3 conference championships and multiple divsion championships (backed in or not). And don't tell me we wouldn't all give our collective right nut for prime Gary Barnett to walk through that door right now and take over.
Mr. Babar
I have no elephant books
I really want HCKD to succeed and firing him would be tough on the program. That said, if he takes action to remedy the situation and holds his assistants accountable that would go a long way, but if he can’t paint a clear vision and isn’t holding people accountable then the accountability will lie squarely on him.
just got caught up on the weekend's games.
in the pro-sports leaning area that is Colorado, having Denver's NFL team at 2-0 while CU continues sucking the hind tit is about the worst possible scenario w/r/t maintaining fan interest, never mind growing it.
in the pro-sports leaning area that is Colorado, having Denver's NFL team at 2-0 while CU continues sucking the hind tit is about the worst possible scenario w/r/t maintaining fan interest, never mind growing it.
/end thread