How I think this all plays out

[HockeyBuff]

Dorrell's defenders (if such a thing still exists) would probably argue he was forced to keep Tyson Summers because of the late in the silly season nature of Mel's departure and the pandemic. I disagree. Zoom is an amazing platform. ****, Air Force and DU both pulled off basketball coaching changes during the height of the pandemic. I know AFA re-hired Joe Scott, but he was an assistant at Georgia before he went back there. Neither of those things are valid excuses in my view. Dorrell could have chosen not to retain Summers.

Here's the reality-he fired a DC after year one and an OC after year two. Now his defenders/lazy ****s like Phil are going to argue he should get to hire a 3rd DC? No. He has to go, and I still think he does when Arizona blows us out. That's a team we spanked in Boulder last year. There's no justification for keeping him. Period. I still believe he's let go Sunday assuming an Arizona blowout Saturday night.

Starting McCown Saturday was about one thing-trying to get as many asses in seats for the five remaining home games as they can. They know they would have been lucky to draw 30k Saturday had they started one of the other two.

If he's still here after the bye, this clearly doesn't hurt the AD/university enough. Not only should the people who really care stay away until he's gone, but I think we need to become more vocal about boycotting games on social media. I don't really care what twitter stars like Kelli or Jerdough say.

I'm staying away until Dorrell is gone. Debating going to the hoops exhibition against the Nubs, but even I'm not sure that's a good idea.

I like your views on this and agree. We all support the players but empty seats will make a point that can’t be ignored. They can give away free tickets to fill the stands and while it may work shor-term, won’t that be an insult to those of us who invested in season tickets for years?

 

[ahoelsken]

The program is stuck with KD likely until the end of his contract. Everyone from national media personalities to small donators can scream about the importance of football for the marketability of a university but nothing would change unless a booster covered the entirety of the buyout. The lingering effects of COVID and the testy nature of the administration make it near impossible that decision makers within the athletic department and elsewhere would sign off on paying for both a new coach and the remaining term of a contract. One can talk about how much the university has committed to new buildings or other initiatives and then bemoan the state of football. However, those improvements and additions have been needed for decades at this point in many cases. Nothing changes for the better at any level of the university from affordability, to sufficient student housing, to respectability in athletics until seismic shifts at all levels of administration and stakeholders occur. The inertia of institutions and the unique challenges of how state universities operate within Colorado make that unlikely.

I've said this several times. The idea that they don't have money to dump Dorrell is ludicrous. Two reasons-

1. I have never seen a CU buyout that did not call for something other than payouts through the length of the contract. That was the case with Embree and Mike MacIntyre. They do not have to come up with $8.7M (number I saw Howell tweet out after the Minnesota game-somebody correct me if I'm wrong) within a month of terminating Karl.
2. Consider next year's schedule-Nebraska and CSU are coming here next year. Big draws. USC's also back for the final time. Do you want to roll into next year with Dorrell still in charge?

 

[rosstr]

I'm with you on this...100%. Hopefully a unicorn booster comes in and says enough is enough. Take everything I said with a grain of salt...I don't claim to have high level connections. The person I spoke with is in the AD but he's not a LC/RG level person. I believe him when he tells me the current state of affairs but even he said a few more bad losses could change the calculus of the situation.

In all honesty, it wasn't the comments about KD that bothered me, it was the sentiment to join the G5.

The G5 position could not be true. The AD would lose 20 million in annual revenue and cut more than 1/3 of costs and staff, the very staff your source says to be a part of.

It’d be like advocating for someone to execute themselves without the realization that they’re the one to be on the receiving end of said execution

 

[Lt.Col.FrankSlade]

I've said this several times. The idea that they don't have money to dump Dorrell is ludicrous. Two reasons-

1. I have never seen a CU buyout that did not call for something other than payouts through the length of the contract. That was the case with Embree and Mike MacIntyre. They do not have to come up with $8.7M (number I saw Howell tweet out after the Minnesota game-somebody correct me if I'm wrong) within a month of terminating Karl.
2. Consider next year's schedule-Nebraska and CSU are coming here next year. Big draws. USC's also back for the final time. Do you want to roll into next year with Dorrell still in charge?

You are correct - they don't have to pay the whole thing immediately. But - they DO have to pay it. Whether they pay it next month, or over the next two years, they still DO have to pay.

They would also have to pay a NEW coach. and a new coaching staff.

So CU would be paying TWO coaches and TWO coaching staffs for a couple years.

 

[ahoelsken]

You are correct - they don't have to pay the whole thing immediately. But - they DO have to pay it. Whether they pay it next month, or over the next two years, they still DO have to pay.

They would also have to pay a NEW coach. and a new coaching staff.

So CU would be paying TWO coaches and TWO coaching staffs for a couple years.

Oh no doubt. We'll get some offset help. I think the school can pull that off-in particular with the schedule next year. If you keep McCown in particular in the fold and can market that on top of the teams coming in here, I think you can make the revenue you need to get that done.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

You are correct - they don't have to pay the whole thing immediately. But - they DO have to pay it. Whether they pay it next month, or over the next two years, they still DO have to pay.

They would also have to pay a NEW coach. and a new coaching staff.

So CU would be paying TWO coaches and TWO coaching staffs for a couple years.

Which is standard operating procedures for college football programs and has been forever. This notion that CU is in this unique position is absolute bull****

 

[ahoelsken]

Which is standard operating procedures for college football programs and has been forever. This notion that CU is in this unique position is absolute bull****

They did this in 2019 lol. I think some (you know who you are) don't want to fire Dorrell because of the connection to the glory days.

 

[Hank]

Which is standard operating procedures for college football programs and has been forever. This notion that CU is in this unique position is absolute bull****

To an extent. Fully-guaranteed contracts for Dorrell-like candidates are not standard operating procedures.

 

[HockeyBuff]

They did this in 2019 lol. I think some (you know who you are) don't want to fire Dorrell because of the connection to the glory days.

 

[Hank]

Rick George really screwed over the university here. If Dorrell is here next year, it's all on Rick George.

 

[ahoelsken]

The G5 position could not be true. The AD would lose 20 million in annual revenue and cut more than 1/3 of costs and staff, the very staff your source says to be a part of.

It’d be like advocating for someone to execute themselves without the realization that they’re the one to be on the receiving end of said execution

Yeah and that means they'd be trading a conference that includes academic powerhouses like Stanford and Cal for one that Boise State and San Diego State are a part of.

Phil's an idiot, but I don't think his head is that far up his ass. Can we stop with the silly G5 stuff?

 

[torero]

Can we add the “everyone’s talking out of their ass” tag to this thread like we did with the conference realignment thread?

 

[ahoelsken]

Can we add the “everyone’s talking out of their ass” tag to this thread like we did with the conference realignment thread?

"Out of their ass takes on the future of the program) work for a thread title?

Nik, as usual, had a solid take to open the thread.

 

[Crash Davis]

They did this in 2019 lol. I think some (you know who you are) don't want to fire Dorrell because of the connection to the glory days.

I haven't seen a single post on this board saying KD shouldn't be fired (at least not in the last few weeks).

I think you don't understand the difference between someone saying what they think will happen vs. what they think should happen.

 

[ahoelsken]

I haven't seen a single post on this board saying KD shouldn't be fired (at least not in the last few weeks).

I think you don't understand the difference between someone saying what they think will happen vs. what they think should happen.

Meh. If you're throwing nonsense like whoever that was this morning talking about a multi-season interim........you're arguing for the same thing IMO.

Our leadership is incompetent, but not to that level. That would be the dumbest thing I've seen in Denver sports since piggyback pitchers.

 

[Robert Sorell]

Can we add the “everyone’s talking out of their ass” tag to this thread like we did with the conference realignment thread?

Shouldn't we assume that about all threads here though?

 

[Not Sure]

Dorrell's defenders (if such a thing still exists) would probably argue he was forced to keep Tyson Summers because of the late in the silly season nature of Mel's departure and the pandemic. I disagree. Zoom is an amazing platform. ****, Air Force and DU both pulled off basketball coaching changes during the height of the pandemic. I know AFA re-hired Joe Scott, but he was an assistant at Georgia before he went back there. Neither of those things are valid excuses in my view. Dorrell could have chosen not to retain Summers.

Here's the reality-he fired a DC after year one and an OC after year two. Now his defenders/lazy ****s like Phil are going to argue he should get to hire a 3rd DC? No. He has to go, and I still think he does when Arizona blows us out. That's a team we spanked in Boulder last year. There's no justification for keeping him. Period. I still believe he's let go Sunday assuming an Arizona blowout Saturday night.

Starting McCown Saturday was about one thing-trying to get as many asses in seats for the five remaining home games as they can. They know they would have been lucky to draw 30k Saturday had they started one of the other two.

If he's still here after the bye, this clearly doesn't hurt the AD/university enough. Not only should the people who really care stay away until he's gone, but I think we need to become more vocal about boycotting games on social media. I don't really care what twitter stars like Kelli or Jerdough say.

I'm staying away until Dorrell is gone. Debating going to the hoops exhibition against the Nubs, but even I'm not sure that's a good idea.

I wouldn’t hold up DU basketball as anything to emulate. It’s about as bad as a program can get.

 

[Not Sure]

You are correct - they don't have to pay the whole thing immediately. But - they DO have to pay it. Whether they pay it next month, or over the next two years, they still DO have to pay.

They would also have to pay a NEW coach. and a new coaching staff.

So CU would be paying TWO coaches and TWO coaching staffs for a couple years.

So what? Honestly, this narrative that the CU AD is broke never ceases to amaze me. They have a $90MM budget. They can make it work if they have the will to do so.

 

[ahoelsken]

I wouldn’t hold up DU basketball as anything to emulate. It’s about as bad as a program can get.

Fair point-but if programs like those two can make coaching changes during the first round of lockdowns, Dorrell could have found a DC during it had he wanted to.

That's my point. He's replaced both coordinators, and still can't figure it out. He has to go.

 

[Costa Rica Buff]

Yeah and that means they'd be trading a conference that includes academic powerhouses like Stanford and Cal for one that Boise State and San Diego State are a part of.

Phil's an idiot, but I don't think his head is that far up his ass. Can we stop with the silly G5 stuff?

No one said CU is leaving the PAC for G5. What I said it that the AD doesn't believe the PAC will survive nor that the B12 will extend an invite. If they turn out to be correct...please explain to me what other option CU has? At no point did I say they would turn down an invite to the B12 if they got one, only that there are people who would rather move down.

 

[ahoelsken]

No one said CU is leaving the PAC for G5. What I said it that the AD doesn't believe the PAC will survive nor that the B12 will extend an invite. If they turn out to be correct...please explain to me what other option CU has? At no point did I say they would turn down an invite to the B12 if they got one, only that there are people who would rather move down.

You're the same rocket scientist who was on here talking about a multi season interim yesterday.

Shut up. Seriously.

 

[Costa Rica Buff]

You're the same rocket scientist who was on here talking about a multi season interim yesterday.

Shut up. Seriously.

you have the reading comprehension of a mushroom.

Make sure you understand what you read before you post, seriously.

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

Which is standard operating procedures for college football programs and has been forever. This notion that CU is in this unique position is absolute bull****

The unique part to CU (as a Pac12 school) is that the University did not feel the need to help out the AD with the money shortage during the covid season. Instead the AD had to take out that big ass loan that is putting a strain on the financial resources.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

No one said CU is leaving the PAC for G5. What I said it that the AD doesn't believe the PAC will survive nor that the B12 will extend an invite. If they turn out to be correct...please explain to me what other option CU has? At no point did I say they would turn down an invite to the B12 if they got one, only that there are people who would rather move down.

This post from yesterday made it seem like the mindset is that CU would prefer to drop to G5, not just that they don't think the Pac will survive and the Big 12 won't extend the offer. If you're saying CU would accept a Big 12 offer if given one, then I'm not too worried as I think the Big 12 would trip over itself to add CU and the Denver market.

That is 100% fair.

What is factual, and not an opinion on current sentiment, is that the AD can't find anyone willing to pay for a new coach yet. Assuming this stays true, there are only 3 options:

1. Keep KD for the duration of his contract
2. Fire KD this season and name an interim (Until the AD can secure $$, the interim MUST stay in place)
3. Fire KD at the end of the season and name an interim for the 2023 season while you search for a new coach for 2024.

The ONLY thing that changes this is the willingness of the CU admin or a booster to pay up. Until they find this, #3 is the only logical option.

I agree that the rest seems implausible and it might just be. I'll refrain from attempting to convey the detailed logic behind it however. In a nutshell, the belief is that CU can't successfully rebuild from within a major conference and going to a G5 could mitigate some of the primary obstacles CU needs to address in order to become competitive again (lack of admin support, NIL, talent gaps against P5 competition, etc..) because most in the MWC face the same issues.

There are a million reasons to think this is a dumb path forward and I agree with most of them.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

The unique part to CU (as a Pac12 school) is that the University did not feel the need to help out the AD with the money shortage during the covid season. Instead the AD had to take out that big ass loan that is putting a strain on the financial resources.

And at the time, maybe the thought was that the AD can take on the loan, forego a % of the media rights payouts for the next however many years, and then the new media deal, thinking it would include USC and UCLA at the time, would kick in and soften the blow of the loan, while the University didn't miss a beat.

Hopefully, our new President sees that the AD is important and the entire media rights landscape has completely shifted since 2020, and that the school needs to help out a bit now just like every other University did during 2020.

Probably wishful thinking, but again we are talking about ~$10m total, that is probably very easily made up over the next 1-2 years with season ticket renewals, concession, merch and donations that would likely come with a reinvigorated fan base due to a good coaching hire.

 

[Costa Rica Buff]

This post from yesterday made it seem like the mindset is that CU would prefer to drop to G5, not just that they don't think the Pac will survive and the Big 12 won't extend the offer. If you're saying CU would accept a Big 12 offer if given one, then I'm not too worried as I think the Big 12 would trip over itself to add CU and the Denver market.

That is true. There are definitely people within the AD that believe CU should drop for the reasons stated above. But the AD doesn't make that decision and I can't see them turning down an invite to the B12 for the reasons you stated above. The likelihood of moving G5 is small, as is CU not finding a source to buyout KD. Its just a matter of when.

 

[LesGrossman]

If people in the AD think making 1/10th the $ will solve their problems…. Hmm. They might be dumber than we thought

 

[ahoelsken]

That is true. There are definitely people within the AD that believe CU should drop for the reasons stated above. But the AD doesn't make that decision and I can't see them turning down an invite to the B12 for the reasons you stated above. The likelihood of moving G5 is small, as is CU not finding a source to buyout KD. Its just a matter of when.

The G5 move isn't happening. CU will wind up in the Big 12 because I think its going to be the power 5 leftovers conference when all this is done. For as bad as CU has been, it still brings the Denver market to the table from a college sports perspective in a way little brother does not.

CU has a source to buyout KD-its called next year's schedule. The Nubs are back. CSU is back. USC is back one last time. You want a new coach people can get behind in place.

 

[patebuff]

And at the time, maybe the thought was that the AD can take on the loan, forego a % of the media rights payouts for the next however many years, and then the new media deal, thinking it would include USC and UCLA at the time, would kick in and soften the blow of the loan, while the University didn't miss a beat.

Hopefully, our new President sees that the AD is important and the entire media rights landscape has completely shifted since 2020, and that the school needs to help out a bit now just like every other University did during 2020.

Probably wishful thinking, but again we are talking about ~$10m total, that is probably very easily made up over the next 1-2 years with season ticket renewals, concession, merch and donations that would likely come with a reinvigorated fan base due to a good coaching hire.

The CSU and Nebraska games next year alone could almost cover this cost if you do it right

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

The CSU and Nebraska games next year alone could almost cover this cost if you do it right

I agree, there is an opportunity to inject some excitement and really push for CU fan season ticket renewals ahead of a great home slate of games next year.

My fear is that they know those games are going to be sellouts no matter what, though, and I'm thinking that all Nebraska tickets will only be part of season ticket packages, so they know they are going to make their money whether Dorrell is still coaching or not.