Official Michigan State/Mel Tucker Hate Thread

[nolabuff]

You can almost guarantee a person like that would’ve faced similar allegations against them if they would’ve stayed at CU. That’s not just some momentary lapse of judgement to target a survivor in that role.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

MSU supposedly has a clause about “moral turpitude” in MT’s contract. I bet they get out from under it pretty easily and I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s fired today

 

[L Buff]

Sources: Harassment case targets MSU's Tucker

Michigan State football coach Mel Tucker is the subject of an ongoing university sexual harassment investigation, sources with knowledge of the pending case confirmed to ESPN, an inquiry that started months ago and remains open.

www.espn.com

We might have dodged a bullet here.

Sure seems like it. And how fitting is it that it's MSU, the school that apparently turned a blind eye to the transgressions of Dr. Larry Niven for so many years.

But a note of caution here, before we all wallow in what would be a justified fit of schadenfreude. Remember that CU was the target of some seriously questionable (okay, total bs) allegations twenty years ago against the football program, which ultimately led to the departure of our last good coach until the present one. That didn't involve the coach directly, but his players. The alleged victim, a female place kicker who shall remain nameless here (but I'm pretty sure most of you know who it was) whose allegations were breathlessly promoted by by the local DA and even the governor, who had no love for CU, was apparently frustrated that Coach GB didn't hold her kicking prowess in as much esteem as Skippy did, and used the charges to get a payday, which she eventually did by way of settlement. That of course was the beginning of the downfall of the Buff football program, which continued until today.

Another point ... my first major case at one of my places of legal employment involved allegations of sexual harassment that after three years of investigation and litigation, turned out to be unfounded. So false allegations do occur. This woman in the Tucker case seems credible, and she has some solid evidence, so her allegations are very likely to be true. I would just caution folks to let the process carry through before rushing to judgment here.

As an aside, I was also involved in investigating and bringing actions in SH cases that were firmly established and which resulted in the dismissals of the perps, so I do appreciate the gravity of SH violations and the damage they can wreak on victims.

 

[InTheBuff]

After all of the bad FB years we've been through, If he had stayed here and been charged with sexual harassment, I can't imagine what the program would be like today. As Pac Man said "we may have dodged a bullet"

May have ??? CU did dodge the bullet.
This subject is worth its own thread.

 

[MtnBuff]

After all of the bad FB years we've been through, If he had stayed here and been charged with sexual harassment, I can't imagine what the program would be like today. As Pac Man said "we may have dodged a bullet"

RG caught a lot of grief when Mel left. Have to wonder if he knew something that influenced him to not put much effort into keeping him around.

Not only is this behavior damaging towards women but it also hurts Black coaches by giving the bigots an example to perpetuate their false stereotypes at a time when it is still hard for a Black man to get considered for many jobs.

 

[SINKRATZ]

MSU supposedly has a clause about “moral turpitude” in MT’s contract. I bet they get out from under it pretty easily and I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s fired today

The article says the formal Title IX hearing is during their Oct 5-6 bye week, so I think it would be hard to fire for cause prior to the hearing but could suspend him pending the outcome and fire him after.

 

[slider]

Sure seems like it. And how fitting is it that it's MSU, the school that apparently turned a blind eye to the transgressions of Dr. Larry Niven for so many years.

But a note of caution here, before we all wallow in what would be a justified fit of schadenfreude. Remember that CU was the target of some seriously questionable (okay, total bs) allegations twenty years ago against the football program, which ultimately led to the departure of our last good coach until the present one. That didn't involve the coach directly, but his players. The alleged victim, a female place kicker who shall remain nameless here (but I'm pretty sure most of you know who it was) whose allegations were breathlessly promoted by by the local DA and even the governor, who had no love for CU, was apparently frustrated that Coach GB didn't hold her kicking prowess in as much esteem as Skippy did, and used the charges to get a payday, which she eventually did by way of settlement. That of course was the beginning of the downfall of the Buff football program, which continued until today.

Another point ... my first major case at one of my places of legal employment involved allegations of sexual harassment that after three years of investigation and litigation, turned out to be unfounded. So false allegations do occur. This woman in the Tucker case seems credible, and she has some solid evidence, so her allegations are very likely to be true. I would just caution folks to let the process carry through before rushing to judgment here.

As an aside, I was also involved in investigating and bringing actions in SH cases that were firmly established and which resulted in the dismissals of the perps, so I do appreciate the gravity of SH violations and the damage they can wreak on victims.

Tucker admitted and said it was consensual

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

The article says the formal Title IX hearing is during their Oct 5-6 bye week, so I think it would be hard to fire for cause prior to the hearing but could suspend him pending the outcome and fire him after.

That would certainly be the Michigan State thing to do…

 

[Uncle Ken]

Sure seems like it. And how fitting is it that it's MSU, the school that apparently turned a blind eye to the transgressions of Dr. Larry Niven for so many years.

But a note of caution here, before we all wallow in what would be a justified fit of schadenfreude. Remember that CU was the target of some seriously questionable (okay, total bs) allegations twenty years ago against the football program, which ultimately led to the departure of our last good coach until the present one. That didn't involve the coach directly, but his players. The alleged victim, a female place kicker who shall remain nameless here (but I'm pretty sure most of you know who it was) whose allegations were breathlessly promoted by by the local DA and even the governor, who had no love for CU, was apparently frustrated that Coach GB didn't hold her kicking prowess in as much esteem as Skippy did, and used the charges to get a payday, which she eventually did by way of settlement. That of course was the beginning of the downfall of the Buff football program, which continued until today.

Another point ... my first major case at one of my places of legal employment involved allegations of sexual harassment that after three years of investigation and litigation, turned out to be unfounded. So false allegations do occur. This woman in the Tucker case seems credible, and she has some solid evidence, so her allegations are very likely to be true. I would just caution folks to let the process carry through before rushing to judgment here.

As an aside, I was also involved in investigating and bringing actions in SH cases that were firmly established and which resulted in the dismissals of the perps, so I do appreciate the gravity of SH violations and the damage they can wreak on victims.

I'm not seeing a lot of shadenfreude in this thread. This is horrible.

I'm not sure all of the charges against CU in the early 2000s were "total BS".

 

[SINKRATZ]

That would certainly be the Michigan State thing to do…

It’s probably the smart move, no? Unless the school is absolutely certain that what he has already admitted to is enough to fire for cause even before the results of the hearing. What they can’t do is continue letting him coach and be around the program until the investigation is completed.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

It’s probably the smart move, no? Unless the school is absolutely certain that what he has already admitted to is enough to fire for cause even before the results of the hearing. What they can’t do is continue letting him coach and be around the program until the investigation is completed.

Yeah I guess it depends what “moral turpitude” means and how confident their lawyers are that this qualifies to be fired for cause.

It’s crazy to me that it’s even a question, tbh.

 

[cu3x]

Sure seems like it. And how fitting is it that it's MSU, the school that apparently turned a blind eye to the transgressions of Dr. Larry Niven for so many years.

But a note of caution here, before we all wallow in what would be a justified fit of schadenfreude. Remember that CU was the target of some seriously questionable (okay, total bs) allegations twenty years ago against the football program, which ultimately led to the departure of our last good coach until the present one. That didn't involve the coach directly, but his players. The alleged victim, a female place kicker who shall remain nameless here (but I'm pretty sure most of you know who it was) whose allegations were breathlessly promoted by by the local DA and even the governor, who had no love for CU, was apparently frustrated that Coach GB didn't hold her kicking prowess in as much esteem as Skippy did, and used the charges to get a payday, which she eventually did by way of settlement. That of course was the beginning of the downfall of the Buff football program, which continued until today.

Another point ... my first major case at one of my places of legal employment involved allegations of sexual harassment that after three years of investigation and litigation, turned out to be unfounded. So false allegations do occur. This woman in the Tucker case seems credible, and she has some solid evidence, so her allegations are very likely to be true. I would just caution folks to let the process carry through before rushing to judgment here.

As an aside, I was also involved in investigating and bringing actions in SH cases that were firmly established and which resulted in the dismissals of the perps, so I do appreciate the gravity of SH violations and the damage they can wreak on victims.

From the devil's advocate side:

She is a reknowned champion of women, a fighter against male abuses. But, when she realizes he has a romantic/sexual interest, she doesn't break things off. She knows MT is married, but no concern for his wife and family? And she continues to have half-hour conversations with him every week. She had to think that might be leading him on.

She listens to his 'masturbation' call intently enough, that she can hear each stroke and the application of lubricant. .I don't know what PTSD factors might be involved, but I'd think someone who's a victim of male sexual aggression, would hang up as soon as possible (if a shell-shocked vet is watching TV and loud bombs are falling on Ukraine, he shuts it off)

MT admitted the masturbation and is toast.
The civil suit for damages?

 

[H.E. Pennypacker]

Sure seems like it. And how fitting is it that it's MSU, the school that apparently turned a blind eye to the transgressions of Dr. Larry Niven for so many years.

But a note of caution here, before we all wallow in what would be a justified fit of schadenfreude. Remember that CU was the target of some seriously questionable (okay, total bs) allegations twenty years ago against the football program, which ultimately led to the departure of our last good coach until the present one. That didn't involve the coach directly, but his players. The alleged victim, a female place kicker who shall remain nameless here (but I'm pretty sure most of you know who it was) whose allegations were breathlessly promoted by by the local DA and even the governor, who had no love for CU, was apparently frustrated that Coach GB didn't hold her kicking prowess in as much esteem as Skippy did, and used the charges to get a payday, which she eventually did by way of settlement. That of course was the beginning of the downfall of the Buff football program, which continued until today.

Another point ... my first major case at one of my places of legal employment involved allegations of sexual harassment that after three years of investigation and litigation, turned out to be unfounded. So false allegations do occur. This woman in the Tucker case seems credible, and she has some solid evidence, so her allegations are very likely to be true. I would just caution folks to let the process carry through before rushing to judgment here.

As an aside, I was also involved in investigating and bringing actions in SH cases that were firmly established and which resulted in the dismissals of the perps, so I do appreciate the gravity of SH violations and the damage they can wreak on victims.

At the very least, he's still a POS because he has a wife and kids. MT is gross

 

[ahoelsken]

RG caught a lot of grief when Mel left. Have to wonder if he knew something that influenced him to not put much effort into keeping him around.

Not only is this behavior damaging towards women but it also hurts Black coaches by giving the bigots an example to perpetuate their false stereotypes at a time when it is still hard for a Black man to get considered for many jobs.

This has to piss Rick off. He's the only AD in the sport who has hired three consecutive Black football coaches.....so Id argue very few people have done more to advance that cause than Rick has.

Mel should never run another program again. **** him

 

[Creebuzz]

I'm not seeing a lot of shadenfreude in this thread. This is horrible.

I'm not sure all of the charges against CU in the early 2000s were "total BS".

WTF

 

[BuffsNYC]

I'm not seeing a lot of shadenfreude in this thread. This is horrible.

I'm not sure all of the charges against CU in the early 2000s were "total BS".

Yes, the post you responded to left out the more serious allegations--that players and recruits sexually assaulted women incapable of consent due to intoxication.

 

[Darth Snow]

From the devil's advocate side:

She is a reknowned champion of women, a fighter against male abuses. But, when she realizes he has a romantic/sexual interest, she doesn't break things off. She knows MT is married, but no concern for his wife and family? And she continues to have half-hour conversations with him every week. She had to think that might be leading him on.

She listens to his 'masturbation' call intently enough, that she can hear each stroke and the application of lubricant. .I don't know what PTSD factors might be involved, but I'd think someone who's a victim of male sexual aggression, would hang up as soon as possible (if a shell-shocked vet is watching TV and loud bombs are falling on Ukraine, he shuts it off)

MT admitted the masturbation and is toast.
The civil suit for damages?

Dude.

 

[Uncle Ken]

WTF

I think Katie Hnida was probably raped by a teammate. I think that Lisa Simpson was probably raped by recruits (most of whom did not come to CU except for Clyde Surrell).

I think that CU created a culture in which sex was part of the recruiting experience (I acknowledge the CU was certainly not alone in this practice).

Do bad things happen on/around all college campuses every night? I believe so. Did CU deserve to lose its football program for decades over this? I don't think so.

But I don't believe that charges and allegations were "total BS" either.

 

[Creebuzz]

I think Katie Hnida was probably raped by a teammate. I think that Lisa Simpson was probably raped by recruits (most of whom did not come to CU except for Clyde Surrell).

I think that CU created a culture in which sex was part of the recruiting experience (I acknowledge the CU was certainly not alone in this practice).

Do bad things happen on/around all college campuses every night? I believe so. Did CU deserve to lose its football program for decades over this? I don't think so.

But I don't believe that charges and allegations were "total BS" either.

I read the 100+ pages of depositions on the Lisa Simpson case and hold a decidedly different opinion than yours.

Hnida never named a person or date, which is her prerogative. However, by litigating through the media, she smeared 100 players even if one was guilty. So, I have a decidedly different view on that case as well.

The whole thing was two decades ago, so pointless anyway to re hash.

 

[Jerome]

From the devil's advocate side:

She is a reknowned champion of women, a fighter against male abuses. But, when she realizes he has a romantic/sexual interest, she doesn't break things off. She knows MT is married, but no concern for his wife and family? And she continues to have half-hour conversations with him every week. She had to think that might be leading him on.

She listens to his 'masturbation' call intently enough, that she can hear each stroke and the application of lubricant. .I don't know what PTSD factors might be involved, but I'd think someone who's a victim of male sexual aggression, would hang up as soon as possible (if a shell-shocked vet is watching TV and loud bombs are falling on Ukraine, he shuts it off)

MT admitted the masturbation and is toast.
The civil suit for damages?

WTF is wrong with you?

 

[slider]

Tuck with a stroke of genius

 

[Uncle Ken]

Tuck with a stroke of genius

Do we not have a “BOOOOOOO!” Emoji?

 

[H.E. Pennypacker]

I guess they like Tucker now.

 

[Darth Snow]

I guess they like Tucker now.

Gross.

 

[rynobuff]

Tuck with a stroke of genius

Was holding back but since you broke the ice.... is it fair to say "he comin" ?

 

[BuffWarHog]

Do we not have a “BOOOOOOO!” Emoji?

We need a “booooo“, facepalm, and question mark.

 

[BuffinCali]

Toodle Eww Mutha F......

 

[Big Jim]

Sure seems like it. And how fitting is it that it's MSU, the school that apparently turned a blind eye to the transgressions of Dr. Larry Niven for so many years.

But a note of caution here, before we all wallow in what would be a justified fit of schadenfreude. Remember that CU was the target of some seriously questionable (okay, total bs) allegations twenty years ago against the football program, which ultimately led to the departure of our last good coach until the present one. That didn't involve the coach directly, but his players. The alleged victim, a female place kicker who shall remain nameless here (but I'm pretty sure most of you know who it was) whose allegations were breathlessly promoted by by the local DA and even the governor, who had no love for CU, was apparently frustrated that Coach GB didn't hold her kicking prowess in as much esteem as Skippy did, and used the charges to get a payday, which she eventually did by way of settlement. That of course was the beginning of the downfall of the Buff football program, which continued until today.

Another point ... my first major case at one of my places of legal employment involved allegations of sexual harassment that after three years of investigation and litigation, turned out to be unfounded. So false allegations do occur. This woman in the Tucker case seems credible, and she has some solid evidence, so her allegations are very likely to be true. I would just caution folks to let the process carry through before rushing to judgment here.

As an aside, I was also involved in investigating and bringing actions in SH cases that were firmly established and which resulted in the dismissals of the perps, so I do appreciate the gravity of SH violations and the damage they can wreak on victims.

The our coach was innocent but your coach is guilty mentality is a fundamental problem t

I think Katie Hnida was probably raped by a teammate. I think that Lisa Simpson was probably raped by recruits (most of whom did not come to CU except for Clyde Surrell).

I think that CU created a culture in which sex was part of the recruiting experience (I acknowledge the CU was certainly not alone in this practice).

Do bad things happen on/around all college campuses every night? I believe so. Did CU deserve to lose its football program for decades over this? I don't think so.

But I don't believe that charges and allegations were "total BS" either.

The “circle the wagons for our guy” mentality is imbedded into the culture of most/all institutions. It is why at the worst of it like PSU/MSU/Catholic Church/Baptist Church/BU/Boy Scouts/NFL/etc because protecting the institution becomes paramount.

The Barney era was full of problems. I agree CU didn’t need to nuke it’s football program for two decades but the blindness in the most strident is a bedrock problem.

 

[married2abuff]

What a POS.

 

[ladyblaise]

I would hope it would be problematic that he lied about the location and dime associated with the phone call.

USA Today sûre shows that his attorney has run interference, and I hope she has extracted full dollar for complicity in the patriarchy.