Official Michigan State/Mel Tucker Hate Thread

[hawg1]

It does not seem at all like much of this is true.

This is not a kangaroo court. While not a hearing in a court of law led by a judge, this is a hearing heard by a Title IX officer.

Either side can request that the presiding officer be removed if a conflict of interest can be established.

Both sides can have their advisor with them. Both sides can have a support person with them, subject to FERPA regulations.

Neither side will see each other. They will be in separate rooms, and the testimony happening remotely. It is closed to the public.

Neither side can ask questions directly of the other, and all questions are determined by the Title IX officer for relevancy. The Title IX officer guides the hearing, which will focus on the findings of the 3rd party investigation.

In context of this, it makes sense why Tucker’s statement is so reactive. He will not be allowed to throw random ****. Relevancy.

He has known since July that the 3rd party investigation showed key inconsistencies in his story, and every slick lawyer move has not made this go away (both parts documented in Sunday’s USA Today article). At this point, it seems he is looking to secure a buyout by casting doubt on the process.

Which, if people believe it is a kangaroo court led by students, he has kinda won in the court of popular opinion.

Tucker's suspension sets up key MSU hearing. Here's what to expect

Michigan State football coach Mel Tucker faces a key hearing in a month that could decide his future at the university. Here's what to expect.

www.detroitnews.com

Thank you. This is what I was looking for when I asked my question with your curt response.

Is this or is this not a Title IX issue? Tucker asserts the University says it’s not a Title IX issue. Is that true? I don’t recall Haller talking about Title IX in his presser. I may not be remembering correctly.

 

[hawg1]

Thank you for providing your thoughts.

 

[BerkeleyBuff]

To put it more bluntly, there’s a “dispute in consent” between a rape victim and the rapist who says “she said no but I could tell she was begging for it.”

This comparison/ metaphor is going off the rails. The hypothetical you suggest here is worlds beyond what may (or may not have) happened with Brenda and Mr. Midnight Tug.

 

[cu3x]

either she set him up over time, or Mel is a crazed pervert.
I can't question her victim status, but the gang rape she reported years ago, was never prosecuted.
He was a perfect potential vicitm. Middle aged, suddenly very rich, home life not great.
Why on earth would she keep the relationship going, after she knew it had gotten romantic? (and knowing it would be F'ing over Mel's wife and kids)

Mel Tucker denies sexual harassment allegations in detailed statement

Suspended Michigan State head coach Mel Tucker released a lengthy statement through his lawyer Monday afternoon defending himself against allegations that he sexually harassed a rape survivor.

www.reuters.com

 

[Darth Snow]

either she set him up over time, or Mel is a crazed pervert.
I can't question her victim status, but the gang rape she reported years ago, was never prosecuted.
He was a perfect potential vicitm. Middle aged, suddenly very rich, home life not great.
Why on earth would she keep the relationship going, after she knew it had gotten romantic? (and knowing it would be F'ing over Mel's wife and kids)

Mel Tucker denies sexual harassment allegations in detailed statement

Suspended Michigan State head coach Mel Tucker released a lengthy statement through his lawyer Monday afternoon defending himself against allegations that he sexually harassed a rape survivor.

www.reuters.com

I'm so glad this generations time is done

 

[Tea Rex]

Yikes maybe hire an editor to read your posts before you hit enter, or use ChatGPT it couldn’t make you sound any dumber.

 

[Creebuzz]

There are always people that rush to convict or rush to exonerate through social media.

Then there are the rest of us that recognize that there is a process to address these situations and through that process, there will be a judgment on culpability.

Mel Tucker was barely at CU for a cup of coffee. I’m not sure why people care all that much about this case versus any other that occur daily in the world.

 

[jaybird]

This hinges on consent.

It really doesn't. Whether there was consent or not for him to be wanking it on a late night call with her, does not really matter in regards to his future employment at MSU or for that matter, any future college. He is done in that regard. It likely won't matter even in regards to any future litigation from him on payouts, although it may factor in if it's negotiated.

Mel Tucker did...AT BEST....an incredibly stupid thing which will cost him his job. I'm not sure what else there is to say on this matter besides it's football implications.

 

[hawg1]

It really doesn't. Whether there was consent or not for him to be wanking it on a late night call with her, does not really matter in regards to his future employment at MSU or for that matter, any future college. He is done in that regard. It likely won't matter even in regards to any future litigation from him on payouts, although it may factor in if it's negotiated.

Mel Tucker did...AT BEST....an incredibly stupid thing which will cost him his job. I'm not sure what else there is to say on this matter besides it's football implications.

Can you expand? How would this be an issue if there was verbal consent between two adults?

I’m not saying there was. I’m just inquiring your position.

 

[jaybird]

Can you expand? How would this be an issue if there was verbal consent between two adults?

I’m not saying there was. I’m just inquiring your position.

If it was two random adults, it would be completely different.

But a football coach who approves schedules and approves pay for a vendor who provides the athletic department with any services...but especially sexual harassment prevention services...is a no go. Throw in all the other stuff, ie that it happened on a school paid trip, on a school paid phone, and he tried to lie about those details....and that it's msu...is just the icing on the cake.

Consent or no consent is irrelevant in regards towards his future employment.

 

[hawg1]

If it was two random adults, it would be completely different.

But a football coach who approves schedules and approves pay for a vendor who provides the athletic department with any services...but especially sexual harassment prevention services...is a no go. Throw in all the other stuff, ie that it happened on a school paid trip, on a school paid phone, and he tried to lie about those details....and that it's msu...is just the icing on the cake.

Consent or no consent is irrelevant in regards towards his future employment.

Thanks much. I’m not sure I see it that way, but I respect your opinion.

 

[GawainBuff]

Jerking off for 36 minutes is serial killer ****

Perhaps, we should add, “in front of someone who doesn’t know or want you to be doing that….,” to the assertion.

‘Cause…

 

[cnbuff410]

For such a complex issue, both sides are set on their opinions without the patience to wait for more details. Can we just move on? It has nothing to do with CU anyway.

At least we can reach the consensus that Tucker is a POS, it's a good thing that he will be out of job soon, and it's great thing that it didn't happen to CU. Let's just enjoy this without trying to be the lawyer or judge.

 

[MtnBuff]

I'm so glad this generations time is done

Don't blame it on the generation. I am an older 35 than you are and am disgusted at both what Tucker has admitted to doing and at attitudes that try to minimize it, make excuses for it, or put blame on his victim. I'm hearing this stuff both in this case and others from people of all generations.

If anyone wonders why women are hesitant to report or don't report this is a lot of it. First they are victimized by the person committing the act, then they are victimized again by the people who make it about the victim, not about the scum who violated them.

My Dad if still alive would be over 100 years old and would be disgusted by any attempts to blame or find fault with the victim here.

Unfortunately in the years I spent teaching I saw far more than I wish to contemplate of students who had attitudes towards women, towards persons of other races or religions or beliefs, towards persons different than they were that are completely at odds with a fair, just, and respectful society. This stuff isn't generational, rather it is passed down from one generation to the next.

 

[DBT]

Thank you for providing details.

Others disagree with my take. I know how CU deals with student violations and this hearing, on the surface, sounds similar. But I’m assuming, which, of course, isn’t knowledge.

And yeah, I believe CU also allows an “advisor.” But no lawyer. And I don’t think the advisor can argue for the party.

And I’m biased about these because my daughter went through it at CU and it was an absolute joke.

 

[DBT]

It really doesn't. Whether there was consent or not for him to be wanking it on a late night call with her, does not really matter in regards to his future employment at MSU or for that matter, any future college. He is done in that regard. It likely won't matter even in regards to any future litigation from him on payouts, although it may factor in if it's negotiated.

Mel Tucker did...AT BEST....an incredibly stupid thing which will cost him his job. I'm not sure what else there is to say on this matter besides it's football implications.

And that is the crux of it. His contract holds him to a high moral standard and whether fair or not, he signed the contract and MSU, according to the contract, is the one who decides if he violated their standard.

 

[MtnBuff]

here is what i know for sure-- married dude in a high profile position of power who is directly benefiting someone less powerful should keep his dick in his pants at all ****ing times.

this isn't that complicated. if he wants to bang outside his marriage, so be it. do it with someone whose livelihood you do not impact and so forth.

**** man this isn't rocket science. all this about the circumstances is irrelevant. he made a criminally stupid choice when he should have known better.

Yep. Every organization has their own version of the sexual conduct policy I put into our Employee Handbook.

"Don't try to get your honey where you make your money"

Absolutely this.

For the protection of the business or organization it should be in policy and the handbook but even if it isn't anyone with half a functioning neocortex should realize that you don't satisfy your base urges with people who work with or for you or who you have influence or control over.

 

[hawg1]

And that is the crux of it. His contract holds him to a high moral standard and whether fair or not, he signed the contract and MSU, according to the contract, is the one who decides if he violated their standard.

So maybe the consent discussion had here - with positions on both sides - is moot. I can see that.

 

[SINKRATZ]

So maybe the consent discussion had here - with positions on both sides - is moot. I can see that.

The question of consent to me only really serves 3 purposes at this point (because I think regardless of any determination on consent, Tucker’s future at MSU is over):

1) To strengthen (or weaken depending on the conclusions reached) the school’s position on a termination for cause and their ability to void remaining payment on his contract.
2) To lay the groundwork for any potential legal fight (criminal, civil, or personal settlement discussions).
3) To attempt to resolve reputational damage being done in this public back and forth. Someone isn’t telling the truth and both sides are going to want their name cleared here.

 

[ladyblaise]

The fate of $90 million will not be decided by a university employee hearing unsworn, remote testimony. The hearing officer will surely find that Tugger violated the law and recommend he be fired, but that decision will have no precedential effect in the actual court where MSU and Tugger fight over the money. In fact, the process afforded in this hearing will be a main focus of the actual lawsuit.

I did not indicate that the testimony would be unsworn. As for remote, the indication is they are on site, but not in the same room.

I have to imagine all parties have worked out the legalities of the proceedings prior to expecting universities to follow those expectations.

 

[Liver]

to summarize, as i have told folks that work for me off the record many times: do not **** in your food chain. do not **** any c-level or equivalent (and c level do not **** anyone in the company), ever. find your partners outside of work-- it isn't really that hard if you are looking for that.

 

[DBT]

So maybe the consent discussion had here - with positions on both sides - is moot. I can see that.

It seems to me that it is very possible that she felt like getting a “contract” to provide sexual harassment training was contingent on her going along with his dalliances. Not having “proof”, like an email or witness, makes it hard to prove, but I could certainly buy that she felt pressured to not tell him to desist.

And this isn’t a criminal trial. It doesn’t require a unanimous verdict. They only have to decide whether or not he violated the terms of his contract. And having a relationship with a contractor who is seeking a contract with the university is all they need to can him IMO.

 

[BuffsNYC]

I did not indicate that the testimony would be unsworn. As for remote, the indication is they are on site, but not in the same room.

I have to imagine all parties have worked out the legalities of the proceedings prior to expecting universities to follow those expectations.

Tugger’s statement says witnesses are not sworn. I assume his lawyer would know. In any case, this hearing provides less process than even a civil case, so it won’t resolve the issue of whether they have to pay him or not.

 

[MtnBuff]

The question of consent to me only really serves 3 purposes at this point (because I think regardless of any determination on consent, Tucker’s future at MSU is over):

1) To strengthen (or weaken depending on the conclusions reached) the school’s position on a termination for cause and their ability to void remaining payment on his contract.
2) To lay the groundwork for any potential legal fight (criminal, civil, or personal settlement discussions).
3) To attempt to resolve reputational damage being done in this public back and forth. Someone isn’t telling the truth and both sides are going to want their name cleared here.

Not only at MSU but as a college football coach Mel's future is over. If he had a winning track record like an Urban Meyer and was able to mitigate some of the damage from this he would eventually have some schools willing to "give him another chance" but his record doesn't give him enough appeal for schools to ignore this.

I think that MSU is going to be in a very strong position to end up paying him little to none of the outstanding balance on the contract. He will sue because there is enough money involved to make it worth some lawyers taking a chance on but after the Nasser situation unless MSU just totally messes up on handling this he can kiss that future money goodbye.

From there comes the likely issue of her suing him for damages. I am assuming that he has retained enough wealth from CU and his time at MSU to make that a solid target to go after. Again assuming that the investigation isn't completely mishandled it would appear that the evidence is solid enough and inflammatory enough that his lawyers don't want this getting close to a jury so they settle for a substantial amount.

The big question which others here are qualified to answer, I am certainly not, is does the information released so far indicate that he might as well be subject to criminal prosecution. If that is the case then much of the above moves a direction significantly against him.

 

[ladyblaise]

Tugger’s statement says witnesses are not sworn. I assume his lawyer would know. In any case, this hearing provides less process than even a civil case, so it won’t resolve the issue of whether they have to pay him or not.

But it does resolve the question as to whether there is cause to terminate his contract.

 

[BUFFset]

Mel Cucker?

edit: just saw Tugger.

 

[PrimeTimeBuffs]

so in summary, this is what it looks like when you're on a zoom call with Midnight Mel:

 

[hawg1]

It seems to me that it is very possible that she felt like getting a “contract” to provide sexual harassment training was contingent on her going along with his dalliances. Not having “proof”, like an email or witness, makes it hard to prove, but I could certainly buy that she felt pressured to not tell him to desist.

And this isn’t a criminal trial. It doesn’t require a unanimous verdict. They only have to decide whether or not he violated the terms of his contract. And having a relationship with a contractor who is seeking a contract with the university is all they need to can him IMO.

Good points. He will sue if found “guilty” and “fired with cause@ by mSU, especially if MSU does not agree to a settlement,IMO

For good or bad, different rules will then apply.

 

[hawg1]

Not only at MSU but as a college football coach Mel's future is over. If he had a winning track record like an Urban Meyer and was able to mitigate some of the damage from this he would eventually have some schools willing to "give him another chance" but his record doesn't give him enough appeal for schools to ignore this.

I think that MSU is going to be in a very strong position to end up paying him little to none of the outstanding balance on the contract. He will sue because there is enough money involved to make it worth some lawyers taking a chance on but after the Nasser situation unless MSU just totally messes up on handling this he can kiss that future money goodbye.

From there comes the likely issue of her suing him for damages. I am assuming that he has retained enough wealth from CU and his time at MSU to make that a solid target to go after. Again assuming that the investigation isn't completely mishandled it would appear that the evidence is solid enough and inflammatory enough that his lawyers don't want this getting close to a jury so they settle for a substantial amount.

The big question which others here are qualified to answer, I am certainly not, is does the information released so far indicate that he might as well be subject to criminal prosecution. If that is the case then much of the above moves a direction significantly against him.

His release says a report was released by Tracey. Surely that contains to answer your question. Strange that report has not be leaked, especially if she gave it to media.

 

[Creebuzz]

Michigan State will write a check for X millions and be really happy. They were on the hook for way more dollars for a coach that was stinking it up, and recruiting was going south.