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OSU game fallout thread

Why would RG fire him? and do you think he really has the ability? Even if Mac goes full Frost, I don't think CU has the capital, and don't think RG would burn that much political capital. If RG buys him out and the new guy fails, RG is likely out the door. Why expose yourself like that? It would take a perfect storm, imo. (1) Buffs lose the next 4, (2) RG's perfect candidate is available, (3) candidate is willing to come to Boulder, (4) for a price that makes sense to CU, (5) CU has money for, and approves the buyout, and (6) RG eats political capital and ties himself to new guy.

Too many moving parts.
 
Oregon St. exposed every weakness CU has. I’m sure our remaining opponents noticed.
 
TSchekler said:
If you make the right hire, a coaching change has the chance to vault the program where it absolutely should be; consistently in the top 25 with 8-9 wins every year, getting to 10+ every few seasons where they can be serious conference champ contenders and, in turn, a shot at being included in the playoff. Maintaining the status quo is simply delaying the inevitable at this point.
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I believe we made the right hire...2 years removed from South Championship, getting national recognition, Heisman watch, etc...from where we have come, I am happy with MM. Last weeks loss was a huge blow, and I could be eating crow by the end of the season, but I think MM has us going in the right direction.
 
JMBuffs said:
I believe we made the right hire...2 years removed from South Championship, getting national recognition, Heisman watch, etc...from where we have come, I am happy with MM. Last weeks loss was a huge blow, and I could be eating crow by the end of the season, but I think MM has us going in the right direction.
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Going in the right direction from when he took over the program in 2012 is definitely correct, but that wasn't a high bar to clear, and he hasn't shown he can actually maintain a winning program. Since 2016, the program is 4-10 in Pac 12 play with one of the most embarrassing losses of the last decade. Heisman watch is over, national recognition is for all the wrong reasons now, and as you said, the South Championship was two years ago.
 
TSchekler said:
If you make the right hire, a coaching change has the chance to vault the program where it absolutely should be; consistently in the top 25 with 8-9 wins every year, getting to 10+ every few seasons where they can be serious conference champ contenders and, in turn, a shot at being included in the playoff. Maintaining the status quo is simply delaying the inevitable at this point.
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People keep saying this, but what evidence is there to prove that it's true? Honestly, it's been about 15 years since this was case.
 
JMBuffs said:
I believe we made the right hire...2 years removed from South Championship, getting national recognition, Heisman watch, etc...from where we have come, I am happy with MM. Last weeks loss was a huge blow, and I could be eating crow by the end of the season, but I think MM has us going in the right direction.
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I will disagree that he has us going in the right direction.
Our 5 wins are against loosing teams, we have only played 1 opponent with a winning record!
Even with our glaring on the field issues,(OL,DB) with the down PAC12 this year, I don't think we were outplayed by USC or W.
We were however out coached.
Then we were outplayed and outcoached in the 2nd half last week to the worst team in the PAC.
Az is finding their stride, Utah and Wash St are the 2 best teams in the PAC, and Cal is getting it figured out.
Im not sure I see another win on the schedule. God I hope I am wrong.
MM has done a good job picking us out from the depths of football hell, but he has reached his limit with this team and his abilities.
 
Gary Indiana said:
People keep saying this, but what evidence is there to prove that it's true? Honestly, it's been about 15 years since this was case.
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Because CU football residing in the Gary Barnett range of wins is what this program is. It's not the CU program of the late 80s and early 90s, and it's not the CU program of 2006-2014. Over the last 3 seasons, MM has this program at 20-11 overall and 12-10 in conference with one division championship and one bowl game. Had the team not blown 2-3 games last year and the OSU game so far this year, that'd be ~23-8 overall, 15-7 in conference and 3 straight bowl appearances. Just having a better coach would have easily achieved that, IMO, not to mention what this program could be if the recruiting was consistently in the top 25-30, particularly in the trenches.

I don't think it's a stretch to say CU should be a program consistently in the 8-9 win range. Why do you think it is?
 
Gary Indiana said:
If you make the right hire, a coaching change has the chance to vault the program where it absolutely should be; consistently in the top 25 with 8-9 wins every year, getting to 10+ every few seasons where they can be serious conference champ contenders and, in turn, a shot at being included in the playoff. Maintaining the status quo is simply delaying the inevitable at this point.
People keep saying this, but what evidence is there to prove that it's true? Honestly, it's been about 15 years since this was case.
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I think the desire is for the "flash in the pan" hire that breaks out the right kind of change for a program to come out swinging, often means a big name hire. And if a coach is affordable and not a "big name hire", their initial success often dies off as the seniors graduate, or coordinators take other jobs, etc.

Reality is more like you hire a new guy that's affordable but with some serious "potential", who then usually takes 3-4 years to build/recruit the system they want, and then they find their actual level of success in a conference/system.

So we've been doing that since Barnett left, the problem is we keep getting romanced by still some rising hope at that 3-4 year mark, in good faith and with hope and loyalty in our hearts extend and increase their contracts, and then we're what, 6-8 years out with still middling/frustrating success, and stuck with a huge buyout if we want a change. The only thing we did right was fire Embree relatively quickly.

As an aside - college football coaches are wildly overpaid. College sports football is turning into the NFL from a coaching standpoint.
 
TSchekler said:
Because CU football residing in the Gary Barnett range of wins is what this program is. It's not the CU program of the late 80s and early 90s, and it's not the CU program of 2006-2014. Over the last 3 seasons, MM has this program at 20-11 overall and 12-10 in conference with one division championship and one bowl game. Had the team not blown 2-3 games last year and the OSU game so far this year, that'd be ~23-8 overall, 15-7 in conference and 3 straight bowl appearances. Just having a better coach would have easily achieved that, IMO, not to mention what this program could be if the recruiting was consistently in the top 25-30, particularly in the trenches.

I don't think it's a stretch to say CU should be a program consistently in the 8-9 win range. Why do you think it is?
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All you listed was your opinion, which is fine, but there's no rightful place that CU belongs. We are what we are. Which has been a team at the bottom of their division for about 15 years.
 
Back to the changed thread title, the only impact the team and coaching staff has had is laughter at my elevated blood pressure.
 
Gary Indiana said:
People keep saying this, but what evidence is there to prove that it's true? Honestly, it's been about 15 years since this was case.
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I've only been following CU and the Pac since 2013, but he basically described Utah. If we can't aspire to be at their level, fugg, if we can't aspire for Utah's level to be our floor, then what's the point? I find it impossible to believe that recruiting quality players and coaches to Boulder is a greater challenge than recruiting them to SLC.
 
Gary Indiana said:
All you listed was your opinion, which is fine, but there's no rightful place that CU belongs. We are what we are. Which has been a team at the bottom of their division for about 15 years.
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A mediocre coach with below average recruiting has almost gotten us to where I believe the program should consistently reside. If a better coach comes in and recruits at a higher level, shouldn't CU actually be able to achieve that?
 
hokiehead said:
I've only been following CU and the Pac since 2013, but he basically described Utah. If we can't aspire to be at their level, fugg, if we can't aspire for Utah's level to be our floor, then what's the point? I find it impossible to believe that recruiting quality players and coaches to Boulder is a greater challenge than recruiting them to SLC.
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I'm not saying that we shouldn't aspire for better, we absolutely should. My point is that people saying that CU is a consistent Top 25 team that will compete for a spot in the playoff every few years are living in the past.

I actually like the Utah comparison that you made. I think that is a more apt comparison.
 
TSchekler said:
A mediocre coach with below average recruiting has almost gotten us to where I believe the program should consistently reside. If a better coach comes in and recruits at a higher level, shouldn't CU actually be able to achieve that?
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Well sure. I guess I just have a problem with people that after 15 years of subpar football believe that we have some rightful place or baseline that puts us among the best 20 teams in the country. To me that isn't based in reality.
 
married2abuff said:
Hogwash. You just want us to keep our coach.
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Ha. No, I like CU and root for you guys (as long as you aren't playing Cal). Look, I'm not arguing this wasn't bad, but you need to keep some perspective. Literally 3 weeks ago we had people on the Cal board saying "I told you we should have hired MM. He's clearly one of the best coaches in the conference." Now mind you this was an inflection point for us two full coaching hires ago and we were still wringing our hands over it.

On this game, MM clearly eased up in the 3rd quarter up 31-3 over the worst team in the conference. A team that had just been boat raced by the 2nd worst team in the conference (Cal). It wasn't crazy at that point to pull some starters rather than risk injuries. He clearly though the game was over. Now what's indefensible is that he didn't recognize soon enough that with their early season QB back in the game OSU is a very different offensive team. And even with this colossal blunder almost everything had to break against you to get OSU the win.

I'm not saying that MM is Nick Saban. But he got you a division championship within the last few years - something we haven't achieved since the Eisenhower administration (yeah, yeah I know there weren't divisions in the Pac until the expansion to the Pac 12 - but you get the point).

You've still got a lot of talent and with a senior laden team he's proven he can go the distance (or at least get close to doing so).

Again, you all know the team far better than I - I'm just giving you the view from the outside looking in. Good luck to the Buffs.
 
Gary Indiana said:
The only way that I could justify keeping him at 6-6 or 7-5 would be to get an ace recruiter/O-line coach in here ASAP.

To me that has been his biggest weakness.
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The problem is that it's been his biggest weakness for most of the past 6 years.

If you look back through the last 5 years of posts on this site, there are more than a few people who have consistently been saying that if MM ultimately gets fired at CU, it's going to be because his failures on the O-line.

The O-line is the unit that takes the longest to fix, but he kept arguably his worst recruiter coaching that position for 4 years before making a change. And even then it wasn't a change to a dynamite recruiter - anyone would have been better than Bernardi, and Adams is, but early returns on Adams are not exactly great either.
 
Gary Indiana said:
Well sure. I guess I just have a problem with people that after 15 years of subpar football believe that we have some rightful place or baseline that puts us among the best 20 teams in the country. To me that isn't based in reality.
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And I guess that's fair on the surface. Kind of the whole, "you are what your record says you are" mentality. Without rehashing everything that sent this program into a downward spiral, I think we can all agree that back to back poor hires, coinciding with joining a conference that we didn't have nearly the kind of athleticism to even be competitive in, compounded things even worse. I just don't think the last 12 years are indicative of this program's floor or ceiling. I definitely think the right hire has us in the Utah territory.
 
Buffs35 said:
Why would RG fire him? and do you think he really has the ability? Even if Mac goes full Frost, I don't think CU has the capital, and don't think RG would burn that much political capital. If RG buys him out and the new guy fails, RG is likely out the door. Why expose yourself like that? It would take a perfect storm, imo. (1) Buffs lose the next 4, (2) RG's perfect candidate is available, (3) candidate is willing to come to Boulder, (4) for a price that makes sense to CU, (5) CU has money for, and approves the buyout, and (6) RG eats political capital and ties himself to new guy.

Too many moving parts.
Click to expand...

If RG wants him out he will be out. Also how many hires did Bohn get across the entire AD before he was finally canned? RG has a lot of capital to burn before he needs to worry about his job.
 
Sebastabear said:
Ha. No, I like CU and root for you guys (as long as you aren't playing Cal). Look, I'm not arguing this wasn't bad, but you need to keep some perspective. Literally 3 weeks ago we had people on the Cal board saying "I told you we should have hired MM. He's clearly one of the best coaches in the conference." Now mind you this was an inflection point for us two full coaching hires ago and we were still wringing our hands over it.

On this game, MM clearly eased up in the 3rd quarter up 31-3 over the worst team in the conference. A team that had just been boat raced by the 2nd worst team in the conference (Cal). It wasn't crazy at that point to pull some starters rather than risk injuries. He clearly though the game was over. Now what's indefensible is that he didn't recognize soon enough that with their early season QB back in the game OSU is a very different offensive team. And even with this colossal blunder almost everything had to break against you to get OSU the win.

I'm not saying that MM is Nick Saban. But he got you a division championship within the last few years - something we haven't achieved since the Eisenhower administration (yeah, yeah I know there weren't divisions in the Pac until the expansion to the Pac 12 - but you get the point).

You've still got a lot of talent and with a senior laden team he's proven he can go the distance (or at least get close to doing so).

Again, you all know the team far better than I - I'm just giving you the view from the outside looking in. Good luck to the Buffs.
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This is the problem, he didn't and doesn't do the bolded above.

He leaves the starters in.

And stops trying to do anything but run out the clock to try to not hurt anyone's feelings.

At no point did any starter (save the already running OL circus) come out of the game. The D only subbed when idiot players started targeting and had to be replace or when starters DID get hurt.

I'll trade you straight up right now if you still want him.
 
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