Pac 12 players threaten opt-out of 2020 CFB season unless health and safety and other demands are met

[BuffsNYC]

Really? I can say for sure that the $65,000 a year I have paid for my son to go to school there the last 4 years was real money.

Yes, but much like healthcare, higher education strives to hide its true costs from the consumer/payee. Many students receive scholarships, grants, and favorable loans to help pay for university. Thus, any two students are unlikely to pay the same out-of-pocket for their educations

Also, cost to you doesn't necessarily correlate to value. You apparently value your son's education at $250,000. Many would not place that value on the education and would be unwilling to pay that much--they may still get the education by paying a reduced rate due to grants, scholarships, etc.

Five years of education plus room and board obviously has a value. A degree at the end increases that value. I'm just not sure we can say that the value equals what the school would charge an out-of-state student paying full freight.

Is your son a part of a team that makes the university $30 million+ a year just for TV?

Meh, that's a separate question. I think it's clear that tuition, room, and board are worth something--it's valuing those things that becomes tricky. I also think that if people are willing to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to cheat to get into USC, Stanford, and the Ivies, that admission outside the usual academic window has some value.

 

[manhattanbuff]

What difference does that make to the value of a scholarship?

No one has ever said that the scholarship is worthless. Never.

The issue is that the scholarship value doesn’t come close to value the athlete makes the school.

 

[manhattanbuff]

For context the Aerospace Engineering Department brought in $21.2 million in research grants, which is the highest of any engineering department. But then again that is 40 faculty and ~300 graduate students that bring that money in. And each of those graduate students gets free tuition and a monthly stipend to work "20 hours" per week, which like athletes turns into more like 40+ hours per week. Though none of the faculty are making anywhere near what a coach makes, maybe close to a lower assistant coach.

Interesting. This leads me to think that revenue sport athletes are definitely undercompensated since they make far more for the school and sacrifice far more in terms of their bodies, but receive similar perks as a graduate student in a profitable academic program.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

No one has ever said that the scholarship is worthless. Never.

The issue is that the scholarship value doesn’t come close to value the athlete makes the school.

*A few athletes help make the school

Again, you take all the SEC players and put them in an XFL-style league, nobody is watching that and the TV money isn't there. However, all the SEC fans are still donating and watching their teams, and networks are still offering top $$

Program >>>>>>>>>>>> Individual Athlete

 

[manhattanbuff]

*A few athletes help make the school

Again, you take all the SEC players and put them in an XFL-style league, nobody is watching that and the TV money isn't there. However, all the SEC fans are still donating and watching their teams, and networks are still offering top $$

Program >>>>>>>>>>>> Individual Athlete

I don’t want to go down this rabbit hole with you. You repeating this take isn’t going to make it true to me.

 

[Hank]

Really? I can say for sure that the $65,000 a year I have paid for my son to go to school there the last 4 years was real money.

1. Does not address worth to student athletes.

2. Whether a CU education is worth $65k per year to non-athletes is a whole other discussion.

 

[AeroBuff99]

Interesting. This leads me to think that revenue sport athletes are definitely undercompensated since they make far more for the school and sacrifice far more in terms of their bodies, but receive similar perks as a graduate student in a profitable academic program.

Athletes do get room and board and health care, the grad students on research or teaching assistance-ships only qualify for no-cost tuition. Not sure if fees are included. They do get paid stipends. When I had been accepted I was offered ~$1300 per month, which would have barely covered food, rent, and insurance after taxes. It is an interesting comparison though in terms of value to the university vs compensation.

 

[Creebuzz]

A big reason why many P5 programs “don’t make money” is because of compensation and facility expenditures.

That’s how I view it too. The out of state tuition is a way to pass financial benefit to the university without showing any profits. Further, there are very few incremental costs on the university side. Adding a 100 students in football and basketball does not necessitate more professors, more teaching space, etc.

However, if you take the back door profits away from the university, the various headaches/bargains/hypocrisies may not be worth it. As we say in Florida, the juice may not be worth the squeeze. That is the risk the players may be taking.

The players also are not recognizing that the coaches are scooping up more than their fare share. I view the university/public as the landlord, the players as the workers, and the coaches as management. Sure, the landlord makes some money but takes all financial risk. The players get an education, but take all the physical risk. The coaches take no risk with guaranteed salaries, but get most of the profits.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

1. Does not address worth to student athletes.

2. Whether a CU education is worth $65k per year to non-athletes is a whole other discussion.

Isn't it about opportunity cost? College costs money and if they want to play football in college, they either have to pay their own way as a walk-on or accept the scholarship offer. If they choose to do neither, they can either start working as a regular person or they can still attend college like a regular student and pay their own way (or apply for financial aid, academic scholarships, etc). How is an athletic scholarship not worth the same to a student athlete?

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

BTW, I am in agreement that Coaches make too much money and facilities costs are ridiculous. Then again, that's not a very Capitalistic view.

 

[manhattanbuff]

Athletes do get room and board and health care, the grad students on research or teaching assistance-ships only qualify for no-cost tuition. Not sure if fees are included. They do get paid stipends. When I had been accepted I was offered ~$1300 per month, which would have barely covered food, rent, and insurance after taxes. It is an interesting comparison though in terms of value to the university vs compensation.

My sister is finishing her PhD at CU. She was allowed to use a portion of grant money from a grant she just finished related to her dissertation to add to her salary and living expenses.

 

[Hank]

Isn't it about opportunity cost? College costs money and if they want to play football in college, they either have to pay their own way as a walk-on or accept the scholarship offer. If they choose to do neither, they can either start working as a regular person or they can still attend college like a regular student and pay their own way (or apply for financial aid, academic scholarships, etc). How is an athletic scholarship not worth the same to a student athlete?

Because many of them want to go into a profession which does not require a bachelor’s degree.

 

[Hank]

I think we’re kind of going into the weeds here. The argument that football players are not exploited because they receive scholarships to to sh*tty colleges while others make millions and millions off of them is complete bullsh*t. That’s all.

 

[Hank]

The solution to the problem is what I struggle with. I don’t struggle with acknowledging the problem exists in the first place.

 

[leftybuff]

BTW, I am in agreement that Coaches make too much money and facilities costs are ridiculous. Then again, that's not a very Capitalistic view.

Commie.

 

[onealcd]

Because many of them want to go into a profession which does not require a bachelor’s degree.

Professional sports?

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

Because many of them want to go into a profession which does not require a bachelor’s degree.

CFB is their only path into that profession

 

[66BUFF]

I was unaware that the AD paid full out of state tuition. And this is across every sport? Do all other universities do this? If not, no wonder our AD is broke. The University is looting it.

i know Texas does the same thing. I spoke with a contact in the CU AD years ago that said he had never heard of a school that did not charge the AD.

 

[jizzrag85]

I think we’re kind of going into the weeds here. The argument that football players are not exploited because they receive scholarships to to sh*tty colleges while others make millions and millions off of them is complete bullsh*t. That’s all.

It’s an easy solution.

*Strip them of the perks of being a student athlete including housing and food as they’re now employees and pay them out of the 12 million they save on scholarships. Can’t have your cake and eat it too.

*Leave it as it is and give them a small stipend, $1000-1,500 a month.

*Don’t go if it’s that awful. All the NFL needs is a high school diploma

 

[BuffsNYC]

It’s an easy solution.

*Strip them of the perks of being a student athlete including housing and food as they’re now employees and pay them out of the 12 million they save on scholarships. Can’t have your cake and eat it too.

*Leave it as it is and give them a small stipend, $1000-1,500 a month.

*Don’t go if it’s that awful. All the NFL needs is a high school diploma

This is ridiculous. There are any number of ways to more equitably distribute the millions of dollars that an AD receives in connection with a football season. How about keep the scholarships and housing and distribute a lump sum to each player at the end of the season based on the income related to football?

Also, you can't just close your eyes to the somewhat coercive nature of college football. Unlike most other sports, it is the only way for a serious athlete to continue playing the sport after high school. Both universities and the NFL depend on that to keep labor/player development costs down.

 

[jizzrag85]

This is ridiculous. There are any number of ways to more equitably distribute the millions of dollars that an AD receives in connection with a football season. How about keep the scholarships and housing and distribute a lump sum to each player at the end of the season based on the income related to football?

Also, you can't just close your eyes to the somewhat coercive nature of college football. Unlike most other sports, it is the only way for a serious athlete to continue playing the sport after high school. Both universities and the NFL depend on that to keep labor/player development costs down.

I think there is a hang up here on what everyone perceives as a fair amount as far as compensation. I think we all universally agree healthcare is a must and that the athletes should be allowed to make money off their names, those are non negotiable.

I find it odd that some want to remove the student portion but keep them on campus. If you’re not going to school, why are you on campus? I am against this model and I would prefer college stay student athletes as I think it benefits everyone involved whether the student sees the value at the time or not. This may be naive.

With that said I agree with you, there are a myriad of ways to pay them, but what’s fair? who actually knows? Cap coach salaries and return the money to the students? Negotiate a % of revenue? How much is actually available? I’m all for stipends during the season or a payout at the end. Is there a way to tie payouts to sponsorships possibly? Where the sponsorships are not tied to the school but divided equally to the athletes? However they do it, it’s a slippery slope with all other athletes and I’m not jealous of those who have to figure out how this works.

Here’s the financial report for 2019:

NCAA Rev and Exp FY19 FINAL (PDF) - University of Colorado Athletics

NCAA Financial Report 2019 University of Colorado

cubuffs.com

Looks like expenses were 98 million and tuition was 11 million. I just glanced at it so I could be reading that wrong.

 

[leftybuff]

I feel like I am due some compensation for watching Buff football for the last 15 years.

#JusticeforFans

 

[AeroBuff99]

I think there is a hang up here on what everyone perceives as a fair amount as far as compensation. I think we all universally agree healthcare is a must and that the athletes should be allowed to make money off their names, those are non negotiable.

I find it odd that some want to remove the student portion but keep them on campus. If you’re not going to school, why are you on campus? I am against this model and I would prefer college stay student athletes as I think it benefits everyone involved whether the student sees the value at the time or not. This may be naive.

With that said I agree with you, there are a myriad of ways to pay them, but what’s fair? who actually knows? Cap coach salaries and return the money to the students? Negotiate a % of revenue? How much is actually available? I’m all for stipends during the season or a payout at the end. Is there a way to tie payouts to sponsorships possibly? Where the sponsorships are not tied to the school but divided equally to the athletes? However they do it, it’s a slippery slope with all other athletes and I’m not jealous of those who have to figure out how this works.

Here’s the financial report for 2019:

NCAA Rev and Exp FY19 FINAL (PDF) - University of Colorado Athletics

NCAA Financial Report 2019 University of Colorado

cubuffs.com

Looks like expenses were 98 million and tuition was 11 million. I just glanced at it so I could be reading that wrong.

I looked at the report, the 11.8 million is tuition, fees, room and board, and books. It doesn't include any cost of living allowances. It covers all the scholarship equivalencies plus any aid granted to medical or eligibility related reasons. By the number of equivalencies it averaged somewhere around $57,000 per equivalent scholarship.

 

[BuffsNYC]

I feel like I am due some compensation for watching Buff football for the last 15 years.

#JusticeforFans

Nope. I'm ****ing jonesing for a season this fall and I fully expect we will not be good. It's a disease. Nobody pays you just because you get cancer.

 

[DBT]

No one has ever said that the scholarship is worthless. Never.

The issue is that the scholarship value doesn’t come close to value the athlete makes the school.

Which athlete makes all that money for the school? If Viska hadn’t been at CU, would they have made less? By how much? If a 5 star opted for Clemson over ‘bama, how much less revenue would ‘bama have made?

 

[manhattanbuff]

Which athlete makes all that money for the school? If Viska hadn’t been at CU, would they have made less? By how much? If a 5 star opted for Clemson over ‘bama, how much less revenue would ‘bama have made?

It is the collection of athletes over generations who make those contributions in order for the school to make tens of millions of dollars. The coaches and administrators coordinate things but don’t sacrifice their bodies. Those people get to make six figures plus every year. The student athletes who risk their bodies get something of value but not comparable to their contribution. I can’t think of many respectable highly lucrative businesses wherein the employees get paid a pittance in relationship to what their teams make for their organizations. I get it; you want to depersonalize the deal. It makes it easier.

But, without all time greats throughout the history of college football and great players who distiguish themselves today, college football is just another sport played by college kids. It’s meaningless without the quality and stakes.

 

[jizzrag85]

Last time I checked all businesses work on the model of the people who do all the hard work get paid the least while those who run the show get paid the most. I’ve never met anyone that says, “I do all the work and get paid more than my boss.”

 

[onealcd]

There are way too many programs out there that make money despite being bad at football for the majority of their history to sit back and say that the players are the ones generating all the revenue. If you can’t accept that alumni have interests in their school because they went to that school then it is a pretty dumb argument to have. Are there stars that last in the average fans mind for a long time? Yes but most players are forgotten about let alone those that don’t even make it onto the field much. College football is first and foremost a sport about the student athletes, the students themselves who provide an electric environment and alumni who take pride in their school and feel that sense of giving back to the place where many of them grew into an adult. It is so much more about taking pride in your community, city, state, etc than it is about oh I watched this player and became a fan of the team.

 

[CarolinaBuff]

The system in place is very fair for both sides:

Yes athletic departments make alot of money off their football players and the school gets invaluable exposure.

In exchange the players get:
- Free Education, room and board, meals, training, and tutoring
- All the perks that come along with being a football player on campus
- The opportunity to showcase their talent

Sure the health insurance for football-related injuries can be better for a number of years after they leave schools. As much safety as possible against Covid, absolutely. As for liability for getting Covid, that's not going to fly. Who's to say if someone gets it from playing football or going out to a restaurant, bar, store, etc.
NIL - without a doubt. It's ridiculous that guys like Manziel, Gurley, etc. got suspended for selling autographs

Going to college on a football scholarship is optional. If a recruit chooses not to accept a scholarship offer or if a current scholarship player wants to stop playing and give up his scholarship, there will be someone else more than willing to take advantage of that opportunity. Immediately.

 

[Denver_sc]

It’s an easy solution.

*Strip them of the perks of being a student athlete including housing and food as they’re now employees and pay them out of the 12 million they save on scholarships. Can’t have your cake and eat it too.

*Leave it as it is and give them a small stipend, $1000-1,500 a month.

*Don’t go if it’s that awful. All the NFL needs is a high school diploma

By all means: let’s continue to subjugate these young men and their (mostly black) bodies because...reasons.

You’re right- it sure seems simple.