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Shedeur Sanders - 2023-25 Tracking History Thread - Drafted by the Cleveland Browns (NFL)

cnbuff410 said:
He played well because he is great at throwing accuracy (short-medium range) and his elite decision-making ability. We know his strength, there is a reason he is probably the best QB in the Colorado history.

HIs issues in college was still present in the first preseason game: Holding the ball too long, spinning backwards, giving up sacks by running out of bound, not good at anticipation throw to get short yardages.

He did step up a couple of times in the first game, but again, he also stepped up in the pocket a few times last year as well. That's why I think it's more of mental issue. He needs 1-2 year to be mentally ready for NFL.
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He has tons of talent, and might be one of the most accurate passers I have ever seen, but I totally agree he has some bad mental mistakes he is prone to and if he can get those out of the way, the sky is the limit.
 
Ya, he has much higher ceiling than DG. Unfortunately, I don't think Browns is the team for him to learn and grow. They will quickly realize DG is a long term backup and draft another QB next year.
 
cnbuff410 said:
This is where his dad always being his HC hurts his development. As a NFL QB, you have to be able to take the quick and short yards when it's there. The big play is not always there. You don't always have a Heisman WR making big plays for you. Even if you play with the 1s, you will still have a lot of games that 3 seconds throwing window is all you can have in a lot of snaps.

Most QBs had to learn this in college. For SS, even with TB12, a master of doing this, as his mentor for a long time, he still hasn't learned this. Because he doesn't have to, no one is able to hold him accountable because of his dad.

SS doesn't like option route? Sure, fire the OC. SS doesn't like run play? Sure, audible to whatever you want.

We have had many arguments about this last season, to me, the OC of Colorado is always SS. Everything we complained in the last two years, super bad OL, zero running game, zero presnap motion, is because of SS as the OC. I think it will become very clear once you see the Colorado offense this year.

I truly believe the best development path for him is to sit behind an established QB1 for 1-2 years to really learn how to operate a NFL offense. It sucks that he is in the worst organization that has no stability in QB position and has a another long term backup QB drafted before him.

The best situation IMO is that Brown draft a new QB next year, keep DG as the backup QB, and trade SS to another team.
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bruh GIF
 
cnbuff410 said:
This is where his dad always being his HC hurts his development. As a NFL QB, you have to be able to take the quick and short yards when it's there. The big play is not always there. You don't always have a Heisman WR making big plays for you. Even if you play with the 1s, you will still have a lot of games that 3 seconds throwing window is all you can have in a lot of snaps.

Most QBs had to learn this in college. For SS, even with TB12, a master of doing this, as his mentor for a long time, he still hasn't learned this. Because he doesn't have to, no one is able to hold him accountable because of his dad.

SS doesn't like option route? Sure, fire the OC. SS doesn't like run play? Sure, audible to whatever you want.

We have had many arguments about this last season, to me, the OC of Colorado is always SS. Everything we complained in the last two years, super bad OL, zero running game, zero presnap motion, is because of SS as the OC. I think it will become very clear once you see the Colorado offense this year.

I truly believe the best development path for him is to sit behind an established QB1 for 1-2 years to really learn how to operate a NFL offense. It sucks that he is in the worst organization that has no stability in QB position and has a another long term backup QB drafted before him.

The best situation IMO is that Brown draft a new QB next year, keep DG as the backup QB, and trade SS to another team.
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Shedeur did a lot of really good things if he was the OC persay.

He wasn't but let's be clear, if he's going to have to be a system QB which he could be elite at, he will need development. Mainly for timing and rhythm, footwork, post snap reads, taking a L is a win if the play is dead, and of course, the end of hero ball. Playmaking Shedeur is required but hero ball Shedeur is awful. Didnt even work at CU. Not gonna work in the NFL.

I told ya'll I wanted him in a WCO and everyone especially @Buffnik was like what! But long term, the WCO is the best fit for Shedeur. He just needs development. Most guys do. It's not an easy system. Shedeur is exceptional out of structure but in structure, he's a work in progress but he's promising if he develops.
 
hawg1 said:
He’s the back up to the development QB. That’s a weird position. Rarely happens in the league per data yesterday.
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That's the question. I know Cleveland has this machine that simulates QB plays virtually but real development is real reps. Neither of them are getting it. The thing about redshirts is good mental reps. Brady significantly improved with one redshirt year. Shedeur had significant jumps from HS Sr to Junior years. Lets see it he can do the same without reps.
 
#1 pick said:
the WCO is the best fit for Shedeur.
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WCO fits his physical traits best, but it means 2-3 years of development for him IMO. One of his biggest weakness now is to throw with anticipation to the quick reads. Not easy to improve for him, especially in Browns which doesn't use any WCO concept.
 
cnbuff410 said:
WCO fits his physical traits best, but it means 2-3 years of development for him IMO. One of his biggest weakness now is to throw with anticipation to the quick reads. Not easy to improve for him, especially in Browns which doesn't use any WCO concept.
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KS's scheme is heavily traditionally based on WCO principles. I do not know how long it will take Shedeur to excel in this scheme. Right now, DS doesn't even look likely to succeed in this scheme. They had him shotgun like Deshaun.

Kevin Stefanski runs a balanced, timing-focused West Coast offense that emphasizes a strong under-center zone-running game to set up play-action passes, often utilizing multiple tight ends and heavy formations. The system aims for quick, efficient passes to help make quarterbacks more effective and relies on strong blocking from linemen and versatile tight ends to enable the powerful run game, according to this analysis.
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#1 pick said:
KS's scheme is heavily traditionally based on WCO principles. I do not know how long it will take Shedeur to excel in this scheme. Right now, DS doesn't even look likely to succeed in this scheme. They had him shotgun like Deshaun.
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My bad, I was thinking about Tommy Rees's system. Sounds like Tommy is hired to run KS's system?
 
#1 pick said:
Right now, DS doesn't even look likely to succeed in this scheme. They had him shotgun like Deshaun.
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This is also where i was confused about. I can't tell "KS's scheme is heavily traditionally based on WCO principles" by watching SS play. Do they just not call these for SS?
 
cnbuff410 said:
This is also where i was confused about. I can't tell "KS's scheme is heavily traditionally based on WCO principles" by watching SS play. Do they just not call these for SS?
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They were protecting DG. Hardly having him throw on the run, which is a critical flaw of his. Also, he was 1 for 5 under center in week 2, they only gave him 1 under center throw in week 3. That's fine, that's what you should do. Play to your QBs strengths and use the RS to develop them. For some reason, that wasn't the plan with SS. They even called the BYU failed play where 2 got sacked for 20 yards and it was the play he got sacked for 24 yards. Same exact play. They weren't setting Shedeur up for success.

They weren't fully running WCO principles for either QB. They did more for Flacco than the other 3.
 
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#1 pick said:
They were protecting DS. Hardly having him throw on the run, which is a critical flaw of his. Also, he was 1 for 5 under center in week 2, they only gave him 1 under center throw in week 3. That's fine, that's what you should do. Play to your QBs strengths and use the RS to develop them. For some reason, that wasn't the plan with SS. They even called the BYU failed play where 2 got sacked for 20 yards and it was the play he got sacked for 24 yards. Same exact play. They weren't setting Shedeur up for success.

They weren't fully running WCO principles for either QB. They did more for Flacco than the other 3.
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Who's DS?
 
#1 pick said:
Shedeur did a lot of really good things if he was the OC persay.

He wasn't but let's be clear, if he's going to have to be a system QB which he could be elite at, he will need development. Mainly for timing and rhythm, footwork, post snap reads, taking a L is a win if the play is dead, and of course, the end of hero ball. Playmaking Shedeur is required but hero ball Shedeur is awful. Didnt even work at CU. Not gonna work in the NFL.

I told ya'll I wanted him in a WCO and everyone especially @Buffnik was like what! But long term, the WCO is the best fit for Shedeur. He just needs development. Most guys do. It's not an easy system. Shedeur is exceptional out of structure but in structure, he's a work in progress but he's promising if he develops.
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Easy solution.

SS gets traded to San Francisco for a 5th. Starts as the 3rd string but fairly quickly becomes the 2nd string to Brock Purdy.

After some development time with Lil Shanny and on a team that will support him and knows how to win he becomes much more controlled and matures. Purdy gets hurt (all NFL QB's get hurt eventually) and SS comes in leading the Niners to the playoffs after which SF trades him to somebody for a 1st +. Everybody wins.
 
Shedeur still has an uphill battle this year. Has to hope for either injury or poor performance for two guys ahead of him
 
slider said:
Shedeur still has an uphill battle this year. Has to hope for either injury or poor performance for two guys ahead of him
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Flacco is an old, fragile statue back there on a team that is going to be trailing a lot. Dillon Gabriel will quickly find out that this isn't Oregon with his receivers 10 yards past the closest DB.

A couple pick 6's and the fans will be screaming for 12.
 
It’s a start but they still need to use Flacco to get through the first 5-6 games and then play DG and SS the rest of the way to see if they can build around either
 
#1 pick said:
Shedeur got what, 6-8 weeks to really get good with the WCO. Let's go, 12. DG gonna look like **** after his 3rd start or get hurt.
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This runs counter to your stance that DG is a really good prospect and can do well in this league?
 
#1 pick said:
Shedeur did a lot of really good things if he was the OC persay.

He wasn't but let's be clear, if he's going to have to be a system QB which he could be elite at, he will need development. Mainly for timing and rhythm, footwork, post snap reads, taking a L is a win if the play is dead, and of course, the end of hero ball. Playmaking Shedeur is required but hero ball Shedeur is awful. Didnt even work at CU. Not gonna work in the NFL.

I told ya'll I wanted him in a WCO and everyone especially @Buffnik was like what! But long term, the WCO is the best fit for Shedeur. He just needs development. Most guys do. It's not an easy system. Shedeur is exceptional out of structure but in structure, he's a work in progress but he's promising if he develops.
Click to expand...
Everyone runs WCO in some form. So I don't know what you mean. If you mean an absence of RPO, zone read, moving pocket... then we're getting very limited. Even more limited by the fact that Shedeur is resistant to a rhythm offense where he makes a presnap read, keys on one defender decision, and then releases quickly based on that.

I'm trying to not get too critical of Shedeur, but my unfiltered opinion is that he has his own ideas of what the offense should be doing, is very hardheaded about, and his body language is horrible when he doesn't agree with the play call. He then, out of frustration, goes off script. Physically, he's more than capable of running any pro offense. But mentally, he's not wired to run the offense as designed or the play as called unless he's 100% on board with it. And that makes it so he's not only artificially limiting himself but also makes it so he's viewed as an entitled coach killer.
 
Buffnik said:
Everyone runs WCO in some form. So I don't know what you mean. If you mean an absence of RPO, zone read, moving pocket... then we're getting very limited. Even more limited by the fact that Shedeur is resistant to a rhythm offense where he makes a presnap read, keys on one defender decision, and then releases quickly based on that.

I'm trying to not get too critical of Shedeur, but my unfiltered opinion is that he has his own ideas of what the offense should be doing, is very hardheaded about, and his body language is horrible when he doesn't agree with the play call. He then, out of frustration, goes off script. Physically, he's more than capable of running any pro offense. But mentally, he's not wired to run the offense as designed or the play as called unless he's 100% on board with it. And that makes it so he's not only artificially limiting himself but also makes it so he's viewed as an entitled coach killer.
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Traditional WCO? Not really. Most teams run a pro spread concept with WCO destinations. Even Cleveland ran a pro spread concept last year although their plan is to go back to the traditional WCO under center style.
 
Buffnik said:
I'm trying to not get too critical of Shedeur, but my unfiltered opinion is that he has his own ideas of what the offense should be doing, is very hardheaded about, and his body language is horrible when he doesn't agree with the play call. He then, out of frustration, goes off script. Physically, he's more than capable of running any pro offense. But mentally, he's not wired to run the offense as designed or the play as called unless he's 100% on board with it. And that makes it so he's not only artificially limiting himself but also makes it so he's viewed as an entitled coach killer.
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Some of this maybe assumptions. That said, we all know when Shedeur plays hero ball, ie, BYU, Oregon, Nebraska 2024, Baylor although it worked, he's clearly pressing. He misses reads. The calm and poise that you love is gone and the his footwork turns into crap. He can't do that in the NFL.

I don't know how you watched 2 years, me 4 years and think he can't run an offense. He's shown he can run an offense. If I didn't think that, I wouldn't have put a top 10 grade on him at all. Do I think hero ball Shedeur can run an offense, no. Shout out to Matt. But he's spot on when he says, when Shedeur doesn't have to do everything, he can do anything. I think that should be revise to feel more than do.

I've spoken with scouts. Sean Lewis spoke highly on Shedeur as did Pat, Jason, TC, our ST coach, and Brett. All were OCs for Shedeur. Sean spoke really highly about Shedeur, maybe more than anyone else. Sadly, we might have given Shedeur too much control as a senior and took away things that truly crushed his draft odds like removing choice routes for the sake of winning more games. Prime needed the wins, Travis did too so he could win awards. Sadly Shedeur might have willingly sacrificed his stock due to it.

He did change too many plays at the line. He did Yolo too much especially when making hero ball. That needs to be limited out of his game.

That said, all I've heard out of Cleveland is, he's way better than they felt he would be as a person and a worker. The player matches the film. He is behind the others but he's a worker. Teammates love him. I know CU staffers hate when I say this, but he had a horrendous process similar to this game on Sat. It was awful. He struggled with NFL concepts. He only could explain what he did at CU. Couldn't handle the blackboard.

Shedeur has been in structure especially in TC but we all know you really don't know till the preseason and you get hit.
 
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