Tad has to go

[Buffnik]

This is something I’ve bitched about for years. The way the P12 refs is hurting their teams in March. You can’t play an entire season with soft fouls being called and then go into a tourney where they don’t call anything and expect them to do well.

Exactly.

 

[WarBuff]

If it didn't effect the shot, don't call the foul. That's what both of us are getting at. Allow physical b-ball, maintain game flow, and don't be bailing guys out with touch foul "technically a foul" weak ass calls to decide games.

Didn't hit Gach's arm or body. The shot missed and ending the game on a "technicality" foul is bs.

 

[DBT]

I know I’m a homer, but it seems like CU gets more than its fair share of punch in the gut calls. You just hardly EVER see a foul called on the final shot like that.

 

[Goose]

I know I’m a homer, but it seems like CU gets more than its fair share of punch in the gut calls. You just hardly EVER see a foul called on the final shot like that.

In the P12? Yes you do. This conference sucks at officiating.

 

[ahoelsken]

I disagree the with idea that Gach flopped. Kin jumped into him and landed between his legs. All of this happened directly in front of the ref who made the call. Did it affect the shot? Probably not, but you still have to give space to let the guy land. Kin needs to get a hand up, but not jump in that situation. Just let a low percentage three point shooter shoot.

Waiting to see if the shot goes in to call a foul is one of the most frustrating parts of basketball. No where in the rules does it say this is only a foul if the shot is missed. Call the foul or don't, but don't base the decision on if the shot goes in.

You're going into what the rulebook says vs. common sense. Defenders are supposed to give jump shooters enough space where they can land cleanly. Having said that, I'm not making that call at the end of the game (and the vast majority of people I officiate with aren't either) unless Kin mugs Gach. Its not our job to determine winners and losers as referees. That's basically what the ass clown who made the call on Saturday did.

 

[AEROBUFF]

If it didn't effect the shot, don't call the foul. That's what both of us are getting at. Allow physical b-ball, maintain game flow, and don't be bailing guys out with touch foul "technically a foul" weak ass calls to decide games.

The game should have never come the point where the refs were given a chance to impact the game with a last second call. The Buffs should have been the locker room celebrating a regulation win and bye before OT even started. Instead they let a bad team hang around and gain momentum on the road. The call sucks and the game sucked, but playing bad basketball in the second half is what decided that game.

In this case, Kin jumped into the shooter and landed between his legs. That is, and should be, a foul at any point in the game. It sucks that other conferences don't make the same soft calls, but we play in the PAC12 and therefore have to deal with PAC12 refs. Know the situation and play to that situation. Get a hand up, don't jump, and let a 25% three point shooter take an off balance deep three. What are the chances that 6'0" Kin blocks 6'6" Gach's shot anyways? This wasn't a case where the shooter kicked a leg out while the defender was standing straight up and down.

 

[ahoelsken]

In the P12? Yes you do. This conference sucks at officiating.

Call this semantics, but there aren't Pac 12 referees in hoops like there are in football. The same guy (his name is Bobby......I forget the last name) covers the Pac 12, the WCC, the MWC, etc. That being said, your point is spot on, and its been the case for years. Let me put it this way-We see a fair amount of John Higgins (he's the dude with the floppy blond hair) because he lives in Omaha.......but other than that, when was the last time a referee we see regularly got selected to work a final four?

 

[Buffnik]

The game should have never come the point where the refs were given a chance to impact the game with a last second call. The Buffs should have been the locker room celebrating a regulation win and bye before OT even started. Instead they let a bad team hang around and gain momentum on the road. The call sucks and the game sucked, but playing bad basketball in the second half is what decided that game.

In this case, Kin jumped into the shooter and landed between his legs. That is, and should be, a foul at any point in the game. It sucks that other conferences don't make the same soft calls, but we play in the PAC12 and therefore have to deal with PAC12 refs. Know the situation and play to that situation. Get a hand up, don't jump, and let a 25% three point shooter take an off balance deep three. What are the chances that 6'0" Kin blocks 6'6" Gach's shot anyways? This wasn't a case where the shooter kicked a leg out while the defender was standing straight up and down.

Yeah. They didn't control what they should have controlled.

However, it also wouldn't have gone to OT if the refs hadn't blown a call on Battey's offensive rebound. Caused a 4 point swing on a horrible call that directly resulted in OT.

 

[ahoelsken]

The game should have never come the point where the refs were given a chance to impact the game with a last second call. The Buffs should have been the locker room celebrating a regulation win and bye before OT even started. Instead they let a bad team hang around and gain momentum on the road. The call sucks and the game sucked, but playing bad basketball in the second half is what decided that game.

In this case, Kin jumped into the shooter and landed between his legs. That is, and should be, a foul at any point in the game. It sucks that other conferences don't make the same soft calls, but we play in the PAC12 and therefore have to deal with PAC12 refs. Know the situation and play to that situation. Get a hand up, don't jump, and let a 25% three point shooter take an off balance deep three. What are the chances that 6'0" Kin blocks 6'6" Gach's shot anyways? This wasn't a case where the shooter kicked a leg out while the defender was standing straight up and down.

Two things-One,If that's a foul in a game between CU and Utah, it should be a foul in Duke-Carolina or vice versa. Don't give me bull**** about how referees in the west call soft **** while referees in the east don't. Second, This is refereeing 101: You don't make a call that late in a game unless the infraction is so obvious you don't have a choice. Period.

 

[DBT]

Thank God Larry Scott has promised transparency over officiating. I’m looking forward to the Pac admitting the officials screwed up.

 

[DBT]

And this loss has a potential adverse financial impact on every Pac school. How can the Pac front office not be pissed that CU will likely be in a much more difficult position to advance in the tournament due to a horribly officiated game? AAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHH! I WANT OUT OF THIS BUSH LEAGUE CONFERENCE!! I AM STILL PISSED!!

 

[AEROBUFF]

Yeah. They didn't control what they should have controlled.

However, it also wouldn't have gone to OT if the refs hadn't blown a call on Battey's offensive rebound. Caused a 4 point swing on a horrible call that directly resulted in OT.

I agree the rebounding foul on Battey was horrible. I feel that the fan base should be more upset about that call. The refs seem to struggle with Battey's size and how players move around him. Players try to push him off a spot and end up on the ground. The refs, who only see the end result, assume Battey must have done something to cause the other player to fall.

 

[Buffnik]

I agree the rebounding foul on Battey was horrible. I feel that the fan base should be more upset about that call. The refs seem to struggle with Battey's size and how players move around him. Players try to push him off a spot and end up on the ground. The refs, who only see the end result, assume Battey must have done something to cause the other player to fall.

What bothered me most about that one is that they weren't in traffic so it should have been easy to see. Utah guy hooked Battey's arm and unsuccessfully tried to pull him. It wasn't complicated.

I think you're right about what happened. Utah player tried to pull Battey to the left. Utah player went left and Battey didn't. So the ref made an assumption that Battey must have pushed off when all he did was raise the arm the guy was pulling so he could grab the rebound & the Utah guy lost his grip.

With Battey, the refs need to get in the mind set that what they are officiating is a dad in the driveway against his elementary school aged kid. Speaking from direct experience, my son runs into me to try to get the ball when I'm dribbling -- I don't move and he falls down. Or I'm able to grab a rebound or make a shot with that kiddo hanging from my bicep with his feet off the ground -- and sometimes he loses his grip to fall down. Those are not fouls I have committed and the foul needs to be called on the kiddo if it effects my ability to complete the play.

 

[BuffLuke80]

Three things-One,If that's a foul in a game between CU and Utah, it should be a foul in Duke-Carolina or vice versa. Don't give me bull**** about how referees in the west call soft **** while referees in the east don't. Second, This is refereeing 101: You don't make a call that late in a game unless the infraction is so obvious you don't have a choice. Period.

Agreed, that's how it should be anyway. Let players ultimately decide it, unless it's something you can't let go.

 

[ZandiBuff]

I agree the rebounding foul on Battey was horrible. I feel that the fan base should be more upset about that call. The refs seem to struggle with Battey's size and how players move around him. Players try to push him off a spot and end up on the ground. The refs, who only see the end result, assume Battey must have done something to cause the other player to fall.

I agree that call was completely missed by the ref. Their big puts his arm under Battey's and hooks him, then flops about when Evan still gets the ball.

 

[goalline]

What bothered me most about that one is that they weren't in traffic so it should have been easy to see. Utah guy hooked Battey's arm and unsuccessfully tried to pull him. It wasn't complicated.

I think you're right about what happened. Utah player tried to pull Battey to the left. Utah player went left and Battey didn't. So the ref made an assumption that Battey must have pushed off when all he did was raise the arm the guy was pulling so he could grab the rebound & the Utah guy lost his grip.

With Battey, the refs need to get in the mind set that what they are officiating is a dad in the driveway against his elementary school aged kid. Speaking from direct experience, my son runs into me to try to get the ball when I'm dribbling -- I don't move and he falls down. Or I'm able to grab a rebound or make a shot with that kiddo hanging from my bicep with his feet off the ground -- and sometimes he loses his grip to fall down. Those are not fouls I have committed and the foul needs to be called on the kiddo if it effects my ability to complete the play.

How does it feel when you dunk on him?

 

[Highlander]

How does it feel when you dunk on him?

If he is still able to dunk on an 8 foot rim, it likely feels like this

 

[AeroBuff99]

If he is still able to dunk on an 8 foot rim, it likely feels like this

Block or charge?

 

[cu62nu36]

That foul call is not made even in the first half of a meaningless play-out-the-string kind of game. Horrible call.

On the bright side, if CU had won we'd likely be playing Arizona in our first game. Now we get WSU and ASU before meeting fucla.

 

[ZandiBuff]

Block or charge?

Block
Not set, moving backwards

Unless it was a UCLA FWD, then its a charge

 

[ahoelsken]

What bothered me most about that one is that they weren't in traffic so it should have been easy to see. Utah guy hooked Battey's arm and unsuccessfully tried to pull him. It wasn't complicated.

I think you're right about what happened. Utah player tried to pull Battey to the left. Utah player went left and Battey didn't. So the ref made an assumption that Battey must have pushed off when all he did was raise the arm the guy was pulling so he could grab the rebound & the Utah guy lost his grip.

With Battey, the refs need to get in the mind set that what they are officiating is a dad in the driveway against his elementary school aged kid. Speaking from direct experience, my son runs into me to try to get the ball when I'm dribbling -- I don't move and he falls down. Or I'm able to grab a rebound or make a shot with that kiddo hanging from my bicep with his feet off the ground -- and sometimes he loses his grip to fall down. Those are not fouls I have committed and the foul needs to be called on the kiddo if it effects my ability to complete the play.

I don't think its even that with Evan-He picks up a ton of fouls he shouldn't because officials get caught ballwatching and going into the primary coverage areas of their partners.

 

[Buffnik]

I don't think its even that with Evan-He picks up a ton of fouls he shouldn't because officials get caught ballwatching and going into the primary coverage areas of their partners.

That's just poor training. I wish all the western conferences would get together & partner on hiring full time b-ball officials

 

[ahoelsken]

That's just poor training. I wish all the western conferences would get together & partner on hiring full time b-ball officials

Ummm yes and no. Ballwatching is a really hard habit to break. I guarantee you I'll catch really good officials like John Higgins and Terry Wymer (who has worked at least two championship games that I know of-including last year) doing it every so often during the NCAA tournament. College guys are fairly good about staying in their PCA for the most part-but that kind of thing still happens, and its not always a bad thing. Here's an example Nik-Let's say you, @Darth Snow, and I are refereeing a game together. I'm the lead official, so I've got the lane as my coverage area. You guys are the center and trail officials, so you guys have the three point line, the top part of the key, etc. If there's a moving screen just inside the free throw line and I've got an impeded line of sight (multiple players moving through the lane), I'm going to rely on one of you to make that call because I don't have a good enough view of the play to make a call on a play like that.

 

[WarBuff]

Ummm yes and no. Ballwatching is a really hard habit to break. I guarantee you I'll catch really good officials like John Higgins and Terry Wymer (who has worked at least two championship games that I know of-including last year) doing it every so often during the NCAA tournament. College guys are fairly good about staying in their PCA for the most part-but that kind of thing still happens, and its not always a bad thing. Here's an example Nik-Let's say you, @Darth Snow, and I are refereeing a game together. I'm the lead official, so I've got the lane as my coverage area. You guys are the center and trail officials, so you guys have the three point line, the top part of the key, etc. If there's a moving screen just inside the free throw line and I've got an impeded line of sight (multiple players moving through the lane), I'm going to rely on one of you to make that call because I don't have a good enough view of the play to make a call on a play like that.

You would fail in the PAC12.

 

[ahoelsken]

You would fail in the PAC12.

Lol one of my assignors officiates in the Pac 12

 

[Buffnik]

Ummm yes and no. Ballwatching is a really hard habit to break. I guarantee you I'll catch really good officials like John Higgins and Terry Wymer (who has worked at least two championship games that I know of-including last year) doing it every so often during the NCAA tournament. College guys are fairly good about staying in their PCA for the most part-but that kind of thing still happens, and its not always a bad thing. Here's an example Nik-Let's say you, @Darth Snow, and I are refereeing a game together. I'm the lead official, so I've got the lane as my coverage area. You guys are the center and trail officials, so you guys have the three point line, the top part of the key, etc. If there's a moving screen just inside the free throw line and I've got an impeded line of sight (multiple players moving through the lane), I'm going to rely on one of you to make that call because I don't have a good enough view of the play to make a call on a play like that.

It's bad officiating when someone who's ball watching outside his area blows a whistle when he has no angle to see what, if any, actual contact occurred. Too often I see calls where they'd have to have x-ray vision through someone's back to know whether someone was stripped or fouled (or the guy just missed a shot in traffic). If you didn't see it, don't call it.

 

[Bison]

 

[cu62nu36]

I think I'm finally starting to warm to the idea. He's been here what? 10 years.

This was a MacIntyresque collapse down the stretch of what had been looking like our best season in years. Very similar.

 

[seattlebuff]

I think I'm finally starting to warm to the idea. He's been here what? 10 years.

This was a MacIntyresque collapse down the stretch of what had been looking like our best season in years. Very similar.

I am too ... let's also remember that the two best players from the last 6-7 years fell into his lap. We have Kin only because Archie Miller got hired at Indiana, otherwise he's at Dayton. And Derek White was right under Tad's nose and Tad (more accurately his coaches) didn't notice until he only had one year left. If you look at White's tape from soph and junior years, you could see the player that he was gonna be. A dynamic creator and finisher... something Tad simply does not look for. Period.

 

[89BUFF89]

I guess we will find out how much RG values MBB. If it’s the old wait until next year with no heat on Boyle and no further investment in thte program then we will know not to expect anything more than what we’ve gotten last few years.