The eyes of Texas are a P.I.T.A

[hokiehead]

Also, these conference GoR's haven't been challenged in court yet. Given how unenforceable conference exit fees turned out to be during the last round of realignment, I have doubts that the XII's, or any other, GoR's will stand (notably I have zero expectations of the ACC keeping ND'S TV rights should the Irish bolt).

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[dply]

Also, these conference GoR's haven't been challenged in court yet. Given how unenforceable conference exit fees turned out to be during the last round of realignment, I have doubts that the XII's, or any other, GoR's will stand (notably I have zero expectations of the ACC keeping ND'S TV rights should the Irish bolt).

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Exactly, I don't believe those contracts would really be enforceable.

 

[skibum]

The fact that they are playing in a crappy football conference has to be driving the dirt burglars crazy. It wasn't until this discussion that I realized how few quality teams there are in the Big 12. The chart below shows the number of teams in each conference that are in the top half of win% all time, and the number of teams with all time winning records. Just for the heck of it, I also figured out the numbers for the old Big 8, Big 12 and SWC.

	ACC	B1G	Big 12	SEC	Pac 12	Big 8	Big 12 (Old)	SWC
Number of teams	14	14	10	14	12	8	12	9
# of teams in top half all time win %	9	7	4	10	10	5	8	5
% of teams in top half all time win%	64%	50%	40%	71%	83%	63%	67%	56%
Number of teams over .500	12	12	7	11	10	8	12	6
% of teams over .500	86%	86%	70%	79%	83%	100%	100%	67%

A couple things jump out:
1. The current Big 12 is pretty clearly at the bottom.
2. OU is historically used to being in very competitive conferences.
3. UT is not.
4. The Pac-12 has a lot of quality football teams.

1-3 just have to be driving the crimson and cream horde bat**** crazy.

Incidentally, the number of teams over .500 in their all-time records within the P5 conferences I think, more so than any other statistic, shows how far ahead of other conferences they really are. By definition, the schools on average can only have .500 records when playing each other, so to have an overall winning percentage for the vast majority of P5 schools means they've been beating up on lesser competition outside of those conferences for a long time...

 

[TimmyDUBs]

The media rights issue can be dissolved with a 3/4 vote of the big 12 AD's.

so 6 of the 10 teams would need to vote for that. I know that Texas is "the big fish" but I would be perfectly fine adding TCU, TTU, OU, and OSU to the Pac-12. Let KU and KSU run to the Big 10 and boom 6 teams want out and Texas gets left to rot in Austin by itself.

Because I can't do math: WVU could go to the ACC and the SEC can have their choice of Baylor/Texas. to get the other two needed for the 3/4 vote.

Holy ****. No ****ing way. That sounds terrible.

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

Holy ****. No ****ing way. That sounds terrible.

Better than adding Texas Baylor and the OK bunch

 

[TimmyDUBs]

Better than adding Texas Baylor and the OK bunch

 

[Darian3Hagan]

Take OU, OSU Houston and Kansas.

 

[sackman]

No.

We don't take ANYBODY. Why is this concept so hard for people to grasp? The P12 doesn't need any other teams. We don't need Texas. We don't need Kansas. We don't need Oklahoma, OSU, Tech, Bailer, KSU... We don't need anybody.

Honestly, we need to stop talking about what teams we could take.

 

[leftybuff]

No.

We don't take ANYBODY. Why is this concept so hard for people to grasp? The P12 doesn't need any other teams. We don't need Texas. We don't need Kansas. We don't need Oklahoma, OSU, Tech, Bailer, KSU... We don't need anybody.

Honestly, we need to stop talking about what teams we could take.

+1, thank you.

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

No.

We don't take ANYBODY. Why is this concept so hard for people to grasp? The P12 doesn't need any other teams. We don't need Texas. We don't need Kansas. We don't need Oklahoma, OSU, Tech, Bailer, KSU... We don't need anybody.

Honestly, we need to stop talking about what teams we could take.

Currently you are correct. The need will arise with the path CFB is on. There is a slow consolidation of power at the top and I believe it will lead to 4 conference of 16 teams. The pac-12 will be of the conferences.

 

[sackman]

Currently you are correct. The need will arise with the path CFB is on. There is a slow consolidation of power at the top and I believe it will lead to 4 conference of 16 teams. The pac-12 will be of the conferences.

Why does the P12 need 16 teams just because everybody else has 16 teams? Nobody has ever answered that question.

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

Why does the P12 need 16 teams just because everybody else has 16 teams? Nobody has ever answered that question.

I think it will eventually be required to be included in the new division of CFB. I truly believe the first 4 conferences to 16 teams will be the 4 that break away from the NCAA and form a new division of CFB.

By the next round of TV negotiations I bet we see serious movement of the P5 and probably a dissolving of the Big XII

 

[onealcd]

Why does the P12 need 16 teams just because everybody else has 16 teams? Nobody has ever answered that question.

What if conference revenue continues to lag behind the SEC and BIG based on an underperforming PAC-12 Network?

 

[SuperD]

So the Landthieves guys have found an interesting flight they're tracking that went from Norman to Stillwater to Manhattan to Lawrence and is now on its way way to Chicago / Gary, and there was a flight yesterday from Austin into that airport that hasn't left yet. That's an interesting coincidence.

I don't necessarily want expansion, but I think the P12 is fundamentally screwed if the B1G pulls that type of powerplay, at least when it comes to keeping up revenue wise with the other leagues. Their only shot really is to nab Texas. Although I suppose if that flight is related to B12 school representatives its possible that the B12 could be meeting there with Cincinnati and its not not B1G related.

 

[hokiehead]

Why does the P12 need 16 teams just because everybody else has 16 teams? Nobody has ever answered that question.

because with the advent of the Playoffs, fans and media are increasingly clamoring that homogeneity is needed between the conferences: same schedules, same budgets, same player conduct rules, same rules about off-campus camps, same academic policies, etc... "Oh, this isn't fair -- we play 9 conference games and this other conference only plays 8!". "our conference has 10 bowl-worthy teams and that other conference only has four". "our conference champ has to win a CCG and that other conference doesn't". "we kick players out for fighting and other conferences give passes to rapists!". "our conference only hosts camps on campus and it's not fair that other schools have camps in our backyard".

If the Pac stays at 12 while every the other P5 conferences go to 14+, recent history absolutely suggests the other four will put pressure on the Pac to expand as well. If this is the case, then it makes sense for the Pac to be proactive and get the best available expansion schools before another conference.

Of course, we could just dump the playoffs and let each conference be the conference their member schools want them to be, instead of being the conference that the rest of the country wants them to be. All of those objections about differences would go away if we weren't trying to unify under a single "national champion". BUT, I understand that's a very unpopular position in these parts (Vive la difference!)

 

[sackman]

I think it will eventually be required to be included in the new division of CFB. I truly believe the first 4 conferences to 16 teams will be the 4 that break away from the NCAA and form a new division of CFB.

"Required" by whom? The NCAA?

What if conference revenue continues to lag behind the SEC and BIG based on an underperforming PAC-12 Network?

And how does adding four new teams to the mix solve that problem? It doesn't. And even if it did, the difference between us and the SEC/B1G in terms of revenues is not significant. Plus, we're only distributing to 12 teams, not 14 or 16.

 

[sackman]

If the Pac stays at 12 while every the other P5 conferences go to 14+, recent history absolutely suggests the other four will put pressure on the Pac to expand as well. If this is the case, then it makes sense for the Pac to be proactive and get the best available expansion schools before another conference.

I can see it now:

SEC: "Hey, Larry, we're gonna need you to expand to 16 teams"
Larry Scott: "why?"
SEC: "Because we did".
Larry Scott: "I'll take it under advisement". :lol:

What other conferences do has no impact on what we do. Their choices do not dictate ours.

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

"Required" by whom? The NCAA?



And how does adding four new teams to the mix solve that problem? It doesn't. And even if it did, the difference between us and the SEC/B1G in terms of revenues is not significant. Plus, we're only distributing to 12 teams, not 14 or 16.

Required by who ever the governing body of the new D1 would be. If the NCAA gives the 4 powers conferences full autonomy then sure the NCAA.

We are seeing what happens to teams and conferences that did not keep up with the big boys right now. The Big East is gone. The Big XII is on its death bed. There will come a point in time down the road in the not to distant future that the Pac-12 will have to decide to keep the status quo and go the way of those other conferences or keep in line with the power players and stay a power player themselves.

 

[hokiehead]

I can see it now:

SEC: "Hey, Larry, we're gonna need you to expand to 16 teams"
Larry Scott: "why?"
SEC: "Because we did".
Larry Scott: "I'll take it under advisement". :lol:

What other conferences do has no impact on what we do. Their choices do not dictate ours.

man, I can only pray that attitude is real at the AD/University President/Conference Commish level -- one of the top conferences refusing to play by the same rules as the others is the only way the playoffs come to end.

 

[sackman]

Required by who ever the governing body of the new D1 would be. If the NCAA gives the 4 powers conferences full autonomy then sure the NCAA.

We are seeing what happens to teams and conferences that did not keep up with the big boys right now. The Big East is gone. The Big XII is on its death bed. There will come a point in time down the road in the not to distant future that the Pac-12 will have to decide to keep the status quo and go the way of those other conferences or keep in line with the power players and stay a power player themselves.

So long as we have USC, Oregon, and Stanford playing the level they're playing at, or some other combination of three or four teams doing the same thing, the NCAA - or any other "governing body" - won't be telling us what we need to do. We set our own agenda. Not the other way around.

 

[dply]

Pac-12, conference of champions. We have some sway. While it might be inevitable that they go to 16 it won't be because the NCAA asked them to. It will be about money.

 

[sackman]

man, I can only pray that attitude is real at the AD/University President/Conference Commish level -- one of the top conferences refusing to play by the same rules as the others is the only way the playoffs come to end.

Who wants to end the playoffs? I thought they were awesome last year. I don't see anybody clamoring for an end to the playoffs. By all accounts, last year was a screaming success.

 

[onealcd]

"Required" by whom? The NCAA?



And how does adding four new teams to the mix solve that problem? It doesn't. And even if it did, the difference between us and the SEC/B1G in terms of revenues is not significant. Plus, we're only distributing to 12 teams, not 14 or 16.

Adding two national programs with huge fan bases in Texas and Oklahoma? You think DirecTV can say no to the Pac Network then? Not to mention new media markets.

 

[dply]

Adding two national programs with huge fan bases in Texas and Oklahoma? You think DirecTV can say no to the Pac Network then? Not to mention new media markets.

Texas already has a network.

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

Texas already has a network.

The texas network in the above scenario would be absorbed by the Pac-12 Network. The only way that you can add the Whorns is if they agree to play nice with everyone else. They get 1/16th of the pie. They don't get their own network. They don't get special treatment.

 

[dply]

The texas network in the above scenario would be rolled absorbed by the Pac-12 Network.

See, this is what drives Sacky mad.

 

[onealcd]

The texas network in the above scenario would be absorbed by the Pac-12 Network. The only way that you can add the Whorns is if they agree to play nice with everyone else. They get 1/16th of the pie. They don't get their own network. They don't get special treatment.

If Oklahoma doesn't support Texas like they have in the past then what option do they really have?

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

If Oklahoma doesn't support Texas like they have in the past then what option do they really have?

Don't underestimate the arrogance of Texas. They could just as easily say screw everyone and go independent. Which would be hilarious.

 

[hokiehead]

So long as we have USC, Oregon, and Stanford playing the level they're playing at, or some other combination of three or four teams doing the same thing, the NCAA - or any other "governing body" - won't be telling us what we need to do. We set our own agenda. Not the other way around.

that is true, and the Pac can survive, if not thrive, quite well without playing the same game as the other conferences. However, I don't think this situation is far fetched:

1. BIG grabs ND and Oklahoma
2. ACC grabs Texas and UConn
3. SEC grabs Oklahoma and Kansas
4. the rest of the XII flee to whatever G5 conferences will take them
5. B1G, ACC and SEC put pressure on the Pac to expand, because, you know, if the Pac only has 12 and they all have 16, it's not fair.
6. Pac holds out, because as a conference they've collectively adopted Sacky's attitude
7. other conferences force a vote by the CFP Board of Managers to exclude any conference with < 16 members from their playoff party. vote goes 9 - 1 in favor, with the USC guy threatening a lawsuit on his way out the door.

Who wants to end the playoffs? I thought they were awesome last year. I don't see anybody clamoring for an end to the playoffs. By all accounts, last year was a screaming success.

on this board? only me.

 

[Jello Bear]

For your entertainment:
Colorado State's Big XII Resume

Don't forget to vote in the poll!