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Tim Brando calling out the Pac 12 as a whole.

Duff Man said:
I mean, COVID is also a thing here. Not every school would be thrilled to buyout a coach given the optics.
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Schools being scared to fire coaches in the middle of the pandemic was probably overplayed slightly. South Carolina dumped Muschamp. Vanderbilt let Derek Mason go. Arizona's finances are a mess, and they still found a way to fire Kevin Sumlin. I can't think of an example of a coach in the Power 5 we can point to and say "Yeah, he's still employed because of the pandemic."

USC was also 4-0 (I think-I know they didn't get to play us, but I can't remember if they lost another game to COVID) last year.....so I'd say Helton did enough to earn 2021. Is that the right question though? In my view, no. That Holiday Bowl loss they had to Iowa after 2019 was fireable in my view.
 
ahoelsken said:
Schools being scared to fire coaches in the middle of the pandemic was probably overplayed slightly. South Carolina dumped Muschamp. Vanderbilt let Derek Mason go. Arizona's finances are a mess, and they still found a way to fire Kevin Sumlin. I can't think of an example of a coach in the Power 5 we can point to and say "Yeah, he's still employed because of the pandemic."

USC was also 4-0 (I think-I know they didn't get to play us, but I can't remember if they lost another game to COVID) last year.....so I'd say Helton did enough to earn 2021. Is that the right question though? In my view, no. That Holiday Bowl loss they had to Iowa after 2019 was fireable in my view.
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If they wanted to fire him, it should have been after 2019.

The coaches you mention were all easy calls. The example you should have used was Texas.
 
Buffnik said:
I think that's the biggest thing. It was a year a lot of coaches were given a pass if the only issue was wins & losses. A lot of very hot seats now, including Helton's.
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Can you make a case for a guy getting another year because of COVID in the Power 5?
 
Duff Man said:
If they wanted to fire him, it should have been after 2019.

The coaches you mention were all easy calls. The example you should have used was Texas.
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Yeah I wouldn't make an argument here one way or the other based on what happens in Austin.

Forgot Syracuse went 5-7 in 2019 before that 1-10 last year. Dino Babers I think would be the one example I can think of a coach getting a pass because of COVID.
 
ahoelsken said:
Can you make a case for a guy getting another year because of COVID in the Power 5?
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I don't think Babers or Brohm would have survived their 2020 seasons if it had been looked at as a normal year, given their trajectories.
 
Last edited:
LongHaulBuff said:
www.si.com

Jim Mora: BYU Could be More than Competitive in the PAC-12, They Could Win in the PAC-12

Jim Mora doubles down, says BYU could do more than simply compete in the PAC-12.
www.si.com www.si.com
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I love clowning this conference as much as anybody but I think that's a dumb take. BYU played 11 games against the Pac 12 between 2016-2019. They went 3-8 in those games. If you put them in this league, they're basically another Oregon State. Results below:

at Utah 2016: Lost 20-19
UCLA 2016: Lost 17-14
Utah 2017: Lost 19-13
Arizona 2018: Won 28-23
Cal 2018: Won 21-18
at Washington 2018: Lost 35-7
at Utah 2018: Lost 35-27
Utah 2019: Lost 30-12
USC 2019: Won 30-27
Washington 2019: Lost 45-19
 
I would love to add BYU just to see what they’d do once told they will get paid stupid money, but will have to play on Sundays. I’m guessing some prophet or high priest somewhere will come out and say he had a vision from God himself that gave them permission to play on Sundays.
 
Not Sure said:
I would love to add BYU just to see what they’d do once told they will get paid stupid money, but will have to play on Sundays. I’m guessing some prophet or high priest somewhere will come out and say he had a vision from God himself that gave them permission to play on Sundays.
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I'm sure the Angel Moron (or whatever its name is) will personally deliver that message to their AD!
 
I know I have advocated BYU joining the P12 but that was to add extra spice to the conference.

The reality is that no conference will take them due to The Project where they tried to get SDSU, UNLV, Boise State, and Utah State to join the WAC even if BYU was going to go independent in football anyway since they could park their non-football sports teams in the WAC. Someone hacked CSU's twitter feed and spilled the beans. Frenso State, Nevada, and SJSU ended up joining the MWC not long after that.

If BYU was to join, their fans will be as overconfident as the Utah Ute fans were back in 2011 and we would have to be dealing with their dirty play.
 
Expansion only happens if TV agrees to grant additional rights. They do this when they get more viewers. All the big TV markets in the footprint are already covered except Vegas. Most stuff is on cable already anyways. Things are moving towards a paywall.

Markets without a Pac12 team? Las Vegas. Rapidly growing markets in the footprint; Boise, Denver, Salt Lake. Lots of potential in Texas

15 Fastest Growing Cities In America
  1. Frisco, TX. Frisco is in Collin County, Texas, about 30 miles north of Dallas. ...
  2. Buckeye, AZ. ...
  3. New Braunfels, TX. ...
  4. McKinney, TX. ...
  5. South Jordan, UT. ...
  6. Meridian, ID. ...
  7. Cedar Park, TX. ...
  8. Fort Myers, FL.

www.rocketmortgage.com

15 Fastest-Growing Cities In The US

Wanting to move to a busy city with a rapidly growing population? Explore the fastest-growing cities in the U.S. and discover why people are flocking there.
www.rocketmortgage.com
 
I think we have to wait on P12 plans. We're not in a position of strength, so the thing to do is see if the B1G goes to 16 & breaks the Big 12 before its media deal.
 
Buffnik said:
I think we have to wait on P12 plans. We're not in a position of strength, so the thing to do is see if the B1G goes to 16 & breaks the Big 12 before its media deal.
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Who does the B1G take from the B12 that would break it up? While it would hurt, the loss of KU & ISU don’t really kill the conference. OU and UT probably aren’t all that interested in being complete outliers in a conference where they hold absolutely zero influence. KU and Mizzou wouldn’t kill the B12, but might actually make some sense to the B1G to get the KC and STL TV markets.
All that to say I don’t think anything the B1G does would actually kill the B12. Wound it a little, maybe. But not kill it.
 
Not Sure said:
Who does the B1G take from the B12 that would break it up? While it would hurt, the loss of KU & ISU don’t really kill the conference. OU and UT probably aren’t all that interested in being complete outliers in a conference where they hold absolutely zero influence. KU and Mizzou wouldn’t kill the B12, but might actually make some sense to the B1G to get the KC and STL TV markets.
All that to say I don’t think anything the B1G does would actually kill the B12. Wound it a little, maybe. But not kill it.
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I’d have to check my math but I’m pretty sure Mizzu is in the SEC.
 
Not Sure said:
Who does the B1G take from the B12 that would break it up? While it would hurt, the loss of KU & ISU don’t really kill the conference. OU and UT probably aren’t all that interested in being complete outliers in a conference where they hold absolutely zero influence. KU and Mizzou wouldn’t kill the B12, but might actually make some sense to the B1G to get the KC and STL TV markets.
All that to say I don’t think anything the B1G does would actually kill the B12. Wound it a little, maybe. But not kill it.
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OU & KU would kill it.
 
onealcd said:
People don’t realize that KU is number three in revenue in that entire conference.
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Yep.

Also, I'm not so sure that losing ISU & KU wouldn't be enough to kill the conference.

Academically, it leaves UT as the only AAU member. That's the least prestigious conference affiliation they could have in terms of its status as a world class university. Rather than trying to replace them with maybe Cincinnati & Memphis, I could see UT trying to lead 4 schools into a merger with the Pac-12 which would include at least OU and TTU.
 
Yeah, OU and KU would kill it, but I see that as a highly unlikely scenario. OU and UT are stuck at the hip.
 
Buffnik said:
Yep.

Also, I'm not so sure that losing ISU & KU wouldn't be enough to kill the conference.

Academically, it leaves UT as the only AAU member. That's the least prestigious conference affiliation they could have in terms of its status as a world class university. Rather than trying to replace them with maybe Cincinnati & Memphis, I could see UT trying to lead 4 schools into a merger with the Pac-12 which would include at least OU and TTU.
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UT will make the best deal for itself once the LHN gravytrain pulls into the last station at the end of the line. I wont be shocked when they leave the other 9 behind without even a kiss Goodbye.
 
Not Sure said:
Yeah, OU and KU would kill it, but I see that as a highly unlikely scenario. OU and UT are stuck at the hip.
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I see a lot of people making this claim, but there's never really much to back it up other than the assertion/assumption that it is true.

Throughout the vast majority of their history, those two schools have been in different conferences, and in some ways (and I think a lot of their fan base would agree) their rivalry was better when they were in different conferences.
 
skibum said:
I see a lot of people making this claim, but there's never really much to back it up other than the assertion/assumption that it is true.

Throughout the vast majority of their history, those two schools have been in different conferences, and in some ways (and I think a lot of their fan base would agree) their rivalry was better when they were in different conferences.
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Yeah they can schedule an annual RRS game and be in different conferences. I don’t really see the issue
 
I suppose if there were certain accommodations made to ensure they could play every year, they might agree to move into different conferences. I still maintain that it’s a big stretch to think OU would agree to be in a conference where they’re just another school and not one of the power brokers. There’s precedent here - look at the ****show Nebraska became when they left. If OU isn’t playing OSU, Baylor, TCU and Tech every year, are they still as attractive to potential recruits in Texas? Maybe, but that’s a risk.
 
Not Sure said:
I suppose if there were certain accommodations made to ensure they could play every year, they might agree to move into different conferences. I still maintain that it’s a big stretch to think OU would agree to be in a conference where they’re just another school and not one of the power brokers. There’s precedent here - look at the ****show ****braska became when they left. If OU isn’t playing OSU, Baylor, TCU and Tech every year, are they still as attractive to potential recruits in Texas? Maybe, but that’s a risk.
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You still haven't addressed that fact they spent 75+ years in different conferences, and had none, zero, zilch of the problems you're worried about.

They're going to be a power in any conference, that's what happens when you're one of the historic and current football greats. And of course, any conference that's going to have OU is going to understand that they'll be wanting to play UT annually - I mean that's like pointing out that any conference that takes Navy will have to accommodate the Army-Navy game, well no ****ing **** sherlock.

There's absolutely no reason for them to stick with UT beyond continuing to schedule their annual game. The *only* thing it does give them is an extra OOC game slot.

That is valuable, and is why I don't see them moving unless their in a conference with only 8 conference games or the NCAA increases the number of games that can be played. Given that I think the latter is likely in the next few years, I do think there's a pretty chance it wouldn't actually be that hard for another conference to lure them away.
 
Not Sure said:
I suppose if there were certain accommodations made to ensure they could play every year, they might agree to move into different conferences. I still maintain that it’s a big stretch to think OU would agree to be in a conference where they’re just another school and not one of the power brokers. There’s precedent here - look at the ****show ****braska became when they left. If OU isn’t playing OSU, Baylor, TCU and Tech every year, are they still as attractive to potential recruits in Texas? Maybe, but that’s a risk.
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I think the difference between OU and NU is that Nebraska's national relevance had already majorly declined prior to what I would call this "new age" of college football. They were already a very mediocre program when they switched conferences and left the Texas recruiting grounds. Oklahoma is a top 5 program right now that can go head to head with just about anyone in the country for recruits in any region.

I feel like the idea of CU changing conferences is more in line with the Nebraska precedent. Nationally irrelevant, history of success a long time ago, needing to maintain affiliations with programs in Texas and CA to recruit those areas. The only conference CU might stand a chance to move to is the BIG as Colorado is a destination state for midwesterners in Wisconsin, Iowa, Nebraska, Illinois, etc, although not so much in Ohio and PA where the majority of the talent resides.
 
skibum said:
You still haven't addressed that fact they spent 75+ years in different conferences, and had none, zero, zilch of the problems you're worried about.

They're going to be a power in any conference, that's what happens when you're one of the historic and current football greats. And of course, any conference that's going to have OU is going to understand that they'll be wanting to play UT annually - I mean that's like pointing out that any conference that takes Navy will have to accommodate the Army-Navy game, well no ****ing **** sherlock.

There's absolutely no reason for them to stick with UT beyond continuing to schedule their annual game. The *only* thing it does give them is an extra OOC game slot.

That is valuable, and is why I don't see them moving unless their in a conference with only 8 conference games or the NCAA increases the number of games that can be played. Given that I think the latter is likely in the next few years, I do think there's a pretty chance it wouldn't actually be that hard for another conference to lure them away.
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I did address it. I said if certain accommodations were made it probably wouldn’t matter.
However, we will have to agree to disagree that OU would automatically be a power in any conference. You don’t just step into the B1G and act like you’re a big swinging Dick. They’d be a huge outlier, both culturally and geographically.
 
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