TMI
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Tom Herman - unemployed/still counting UT buyout money
- Thread starter White_Rabbit
- Start date
TMI
No, the trick isn't to sell something that's already there, the trick is to put it on the never ever and sell stuff that you're probably gonna get in the future.
HighlandsBuff
Well-Known Member
I don't know that much about Herman, but I do know that, for several reasons, it seems to be more challenging to win in Austin than folks give credit for.
You are on Fyre
Herman is my #1. His Houston teams were damn good. UT-Austin is a cesspool and a no-win situation for most coaches. But, as has been pointed out he had a winning record there, made and won bowl games. The question is will RG be smart enough to make the call, and will Herman bother to consider us.
White_Rabbit
Well-Known Member
You've never heard of Peppa Guanciale?
ohhhh, my niece loves that thing. Now it makes sense
weird reference tho jens, obscure AF
Obscure? LOL.
First, I like the idea but have a question: With Herman, why would he be successful at CU? Seems like Texas fans really wanted him to be fired? UT fans are delusional but we don’t have the same resources as Texas. We just had a HC who had been let go from UCLA and that didn’t work. How is this different?
I don't think so?
He was highly successful at Texas, just not successful enough for Texas’ standards.
There is also a guy over on 247, who says he’s a Georgia fan and someone who has a hobby of suggesting coaching candidates to ADs, who claims that Herman is fairly despised by Texas HS coaches and that he was actually banned from coming to a few of the bigger ones. He says for this reason, Herman would be a horrible hire for CU.
No idea if any of that is accurate
Aren't we looking for a coach who overperforms with underwhelming talent...
...rather than someone who underperforms with overwhelming talent?
I hear a lot of rationalization about how hard it is to win at Texas (which is just weird) and I acknowledge Herman's success at Houston. I don't think he's a bad candidate.
But are we seriously going to sit here and suggest that the record he accumulated at Texas reflected the talent he had on the roster (and I acknowledge that other "it" coaches struggled to win at the level of their talent as well)?
...rather than someone who underperforms with overwhelming talent?
I hear a lot of rationalization about how hard it is to win at Texas (which is just weird) and I acknowledge Herman's success at Houston. I don't think he's a bad candidate.
But are we seriously going to sit here and suggest that the record he accumulated at Texas reflected the talent he had on the roster (and I acknowledge that other "it" coaches struggled to win at the level of their talent as well)?
I was hoping you noticed that I got to bump a ten year old thread instead of you.
gotcha. you were within the 10 year limit by two months -- all good.
He did technically underperform his recruiting rankings that were something like 3, 3, 3, 7 during the four years he was there, but he did have a winning record each season, along with 4 straight bowl wins in the Texas Bowl, Sugar Bowl, and Alamo Bowl x2.
He's an elite recruiter and a pretty good coach who did have success at a blue blood program, just not quite the success that program expects. Others have stated previously, but I don't think you can just brush off the idea of the Texas boosters meddling in recruiting, strategy, coaching hires, etc and the effect it has on that job.
However, my question is about some things I've read about him being universally despised by Texas High School coaches, at least according to a guy over on 247 who says he's a Georgia fan, and claims to know some things. Apparently, he is/was banned from a few HS programs down there, which played a part in his firing. I'm not sure if I fully believe all of that, and think he stance toward the racist "eyes of Texas" situation probably played more of a role in the good ol boys club wanting him fired.
Regardless, the Texas job is just a completely different animal. Could Herman get CU recruiting in the top 30 consistently and back to 6-7 wins/year? I think there's overwhelming evidence to suggest he could.
SINKRATZ
PhD in Analogy
Yeah I’m not even sure what realistic expectation should be at Texas today. There are 10-15 programs who probably feel they should be 11-2 or better every year and it’s not possible. Texas seems like a place where once boosters have decided you’re not the guy the job becomes absolute misery until they get him out.
To me his floor is every bit as good as what we should expect from someone like Mendenhall and his upside is better which is why I’m intrigued.
Agree. I understand UK's argument that he did less with more at Texas and CU needs someone who can do more with less, but I think it's just so much more nuanced than that with Herman and Texas.
If Texas fired Sark today, how many people here would have him at the top of the list for CU again? Herman was significantly better at Texas than Sark has been to this point.
Another Texas specific problem, especially for the boosters, is Aggie's "resurgence" or at least rise in popularity as a result of their move to the SEC.
And as for your correct comment about 10-15 teams thinking they have a good given right to win 11+ games a season I think the problem is Saban and the absolute insane standards he's been setting at Alabama. That's what they aspire to be, and probably think they have a right to be, and Saban has well and truly poisoned that well.
I like Mendenhall better but I think they’re both good choices for us and would be happy with either. Now the question is will either take a look at CU as an option?
Herman > Sark from what I’m reading
SINKRATZ
PhD in Analogy
And let’s be honest, if Herman had done “more with more” at Texas (or even “enough with more”) he would not be a remote option for CU. Every candidate who considers this job will be imperfect, so what imperfections can we live with and which can we not?
Any former HC who is a candidate for CU falls into that category, yes. Going the coordinator route could reveal a unicorn type of coach, but could also be a major bust. I think this is why guys like EB and/or Walters are going to get a lot of run as candidates from the media. Guys who could be majorly successful and would probably stay at CU even if they were.
Clearly most of you havent seen that documentary.
Good way of looking at it. I can live with the imperfections of a coach who was run out of Austin due to the wackiness of UT fans
I really wanted EB to be our coach before- but I’m firmly in the camp of no former Buffs. Even Ryan Walters should be a no. He’ll be a great coach somewhere else and I hope he get to be an SEC or big 10 HC. Will be supporting him. Just feel we need a fresh look to the future. I want the 90s back as much as anybody. But this rebuild could be the start of a new Buffs chapter instead of a rehash of the old.
I think there's a difference between "No former Buffs"
and
"We're not looking for former Buffs."
The "no former Buffs" thing has to have some context around it. I'm completely opposed to limiting the search to former Buffs, having former Buffs forced on the AD, or going with an unqualified former Buff for financial reasons, reasons of stability, or the idea that he won't leave if he has success.
If Ryan Walters is going to be a great head coach somewhere else, he should be considered here. It would be entirely ironic and some serious "Buff ****" for CU not to consider a rising star because he's a former Buff, only to watch him take over a B1G or SEC program and succeed.
Exactly my point.
You’re right. Although do your think we try to have a former or current HC instead of a coordinator if possible?
I would like to see the best possible candidate being hired, regardless of current position. There is not a tried and true formula and much of the success or failure is going to be determined by how badly this administration wants to have a successful program.
Barnett - HC - Success
Hawkins - HC - Failure
Embree - Asst Coach - Failure
MacIntyre - HC - Mixed results, but was successful in building a foundation
Tucker - DC - Incomplete at CU, but was on the right track. Mixed results for him at MSU
Dorrell - Former HC, but current NFL assistant - Failure
Go find the best coach regardless of age, affiliation or current position.