Lol Ohio St definitely is the snitch
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We now take you to Ann Arbor Michigan
- Thread starter skibum
- Start date
They fooked.
Holy ****- after hearing he original allegations (a member of the staff went to 30 games to scout the opposition!) I was hardly scandalized at all.
But the latest photos with laminated pictures appearing to show the signals for the OSU game? To me, that 1) removes any doubt that this wasn't sanctioned at the highest levels within the coaching staff and 2) would provide a serious competitive advantage to UM since it's really the only effective way to relay play changes at the LOS.
I generally don't care about the recruiting violation type stuff (Harbaugh could have 1,000 burgers with recruits during dead periods for all I care), but on field, in-game stuff should be treated differently.
But the latest photos with laminated pictures appearing to show the signals for the OSU game? To me, that 1) removes any doubt that this wasn't sanctioned at the highest levels within the coaching staff and 2) would provide a serious competitive advantage to UM since it's really the only effective way to relay play changes at the LOS.
I generally don't care about the recruiting violation type stuff (Harbaugh could have 1,000 burgers with recruits during dead periods for all I care), but on field, in-game stuff should be treated differently.
It has been a seven year journey, but somehow TSchek has gone from being an all-out twat to being the most consistent voice of reason on Allbuffs.
I find it unsettling.
Laughing at "lamented".
In the big scheme of things this isn't that severe an infraction.
As you implied though it is part of an ongoing pattern of violating the rules, not an isolated instance.
Also there are a lot of rules that we as fans don't know about. Some are to protect the player's safety, some are to at least attempt to get players an education, some are to control recruiting excesses (no-contact periods, limits on coaches visits, etc.) some are to protect the integrity of the game in large and small ways.
Key is that even though the fans don't know or care about these rules it is the coaches job to know them and to follow them. Failure to do so on a repeated basis has to result in some form of consequences.
Unfortunately the punishments that the NCAA has available end up hurting the kids more than the coaches.
Vacating wins is meaningless. Do any Kansas fans think that the Danny Manning/Larry Brown team went winless instead of winning the NC because the NCAA "vacated" the wins, of course not. 99.99% would take exactly that season again in a moment.
Bowl bans, reducing scholarships again hurt the kids, the coach will take his money and be gone.
If/when the NCAA comes down on Michigan Harbaugh won't be around to deal with the results. He will either go make big paychecks in a broadcast booth or more likely making more money in the NFL.
It's not the in person scouting that is banned, its recording the signals. Simple in-person scouting at a game is a waste when you can record a broadcast and watch the plays over and over. But ESPN doesn't keep the cameras on coaches long enough to steal many signs - maybe one or two here and there...
But still a twat. Cause of sausage and whatnot
You don't think it's a big deal that Michigan knew what opponents were going to do on offense and defense on plays (most) that they signaled calls?
That seems like a significant advantage in a game where the teams are forced to set themselves up each play by guessing what the other team might do.
In what world is it reasonable to put Italian sausage in chili?
EDIT: Goddammit @You Assholes beat me.
My wife said something similar in her vows, if I remember correctly
Was she as disappointed as we are?
I didn't say it wasn't a big deal, I do think that in the big picture there are a lot of other things that are bigger like intentionally injuring opponents, etc.
It is clearly an advantage or they wouldn't have done it and there wouldn't have been a rule against it.
If it were an isolated instance then it is the kind of thing that would justify a penalty but not severe sanctions.
As Nik though and others have stated it is a part of an ongoing pattern with Harbaugh. Because of this the penalty becomes or should become much more serious.
Off the top of my head, there are three advantages in football:
1. Talent
2. Coaching (building skills of that talent)
3. Deception
Taking away deception that exists in play-calling and play design feels like an enormous advantage. Particularly when playing teams with similar talent.
I don't disagree with you at all. Michigan gained an advantage from this and deserve to face consequences.
As someone else earlier mentioned opponents could have negated or even taken advantage by mixing up their signals but they shouldn't have to.
It is an infraction, I don't see it as a giant infraction on it's own but yes if Michigan didn't think they would gain an edge from it then they wouldn't have done it.
"Lamented sheet" sounds like CU's playbook for the previous 20 years.
Wrong:
“NCAA rules do not directly ban the stealing of signs. There are rules against using electronic equipment to record an opponent's signals, but what's mostly at issue with Michigan is NCAA Bylaw 11.6.1: ’Off-campus, in-person scouting of future opponents (in the same season) is prohibited.’”
Investigation of Michigan football for sign-stealing stems from NCAA rules made to curb financial advantages
The NCAA banned in-person advanced scouting in 1994 in part because not every school could afford to do it.
www.cbsnews.com
There's a reason CSU was using those big annoying banners to block views of the coaches' signals during that game.
I now find myself wondering if they do that every game, but I don't want to know badly enough to suffer through watching them play again.
I now find myself wondering if they do that every game, but I don't want to know badly enough to suffer through watching them play again.
Well if going to a game is a bigger deal than video taping, then I agree - that is a silly rule. Although I don't see how one can record without being there in-person, except to use a DVR at home.Wrong:
“NCAA rules do not directly ban the stealing of signs. There are rules against using electronic equipment to record an opponent's signals, but what's mostly at issue with Michigan is NCAA Bylaw 11.6.1: ’Off-campus, in-person scouting of future opponents (in the same season) is prohibited.’”
Investigation of Michigan football for sign-stealing stems from NCAA rules made to curb financial advantages
The NCAA banned in-person advanced scouting in 1994 in part because not every school could afford to do it.
Either way Meat-chicken cheated. Throw away the key!
Its to avoid giving a financial advantage to bigger schools. Of all the things that would give an unfair advantage to the big schools, scouting seems like the pettiest thing to ban.
Pilotbuff
Well-Known Member
There seems to be a pattern here with Michigan and in particular Mr. Harbaugh. I think it’s one thing to set up to the line but it’s another to bend the line and certainly a problem when you cross the line. I think we are starting to see a pattern of Michigan going beyond the line, if just barely, but beyond the line nether the less. When you start to add up all the, just beyond the line infractions, and the NCAA has yet to determine that, it doesn’t take much to see that Michigan/Harbaugh is willing to cross lines if even just barely.
If you don’t take a stand against Michigan/Harbaugh now when does the line crossing stop? On merit, is this really any different than when the Astros stole signs during the playoffs and World Series? In baseball, there has always been signs, disguised as a way of telling pitchers and base runners what to do instead of just yelling out, “throw the fastball down and in.” When does sign stealing cross the line of an unfair advantage? Would tapping into an OC’s headset and hearing the play in real time be an unfair advantage? Because if you know the hand signals it’s essentially the same thing.
If you don’t take a stand against Michigan/Harbaugh now when does the line crossing stop? On merit, is this really any different than when the Astros stole signs during the playoffs and World Series? In baseball, there has always been signs, disguised as a way of telling pitchers and base runners what to do instead of just yelling out, “throw the fastball down and in.” When does sign stealing cross the line of an unfair advantage? Would tapping into an OC’s headset and hearing the play in real time be an unfair advantage? Because if you know the hand signals it’s essentially the same thing.
Sorry, I’m not following. How does UM buying tix to a smaller school, like Northwestern, give UM a financial advantage?
The idea that when they are scheduling the directional MAC schools in the OOC to pad their records those MAC schools don't have the budget for a full advance scouting staff like UM or other B1G schools would have.
As a result UM gets an unfair advantage and beats them by 50 instead of 35.
Ah, so it’s not to prevent “giving” the bigger schools a financial advantage, rather to prevent the bigger schools from taking advantage of their greater resources. That makes sense. Thanks.
You could look at it that way, or you could say that they do it so that none of the bigger schools feel like they have to have an advance scouting department and can make even more money since they really don't care about the smaller schools.
fify
The theory is that only the big schools will have the money to send scouts to games.
I'd be very nervous right now if I was a fan of Eastern Michigan.