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Creebuzz

Don’t drain the swamp.
Club Member
Damn, gotta give him credit for balls. He'll go to the jailhouse still kicking and screaming.
Seems odd that Mark Geragos would be a co conspirator. Geragos never struck me as an idiot that would cross the criminal line with someone like Avenatti. I’m interested to see how this plays out.
 

hokiehead

Gobbler on the Mountain!
Club Member
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/10/19/study-finds-large-gap-between-graduation-rates-black-white-football-players

The researchers found that when comparing federal gradation rates of only full-time students, the graduation gap for black football players in the Power Five conferences was nearly five times larger than that of white players. White football players graduated at a rate five percentage points lower than other full-time students. Black players graduated at a rate 25.2 percentage points lower than other full-time black male students.
Ok, interesting, but this seems loke a significant tangent fom what we were discussing. Interesting nevertheless. If I'm supposed to connect this to the stipend and guaranteed 4 year scholarship discussion, I'm missing the connection.

Anyway, on this tangent...

The linked piece doesn't dive into root cause, and I'm not easily teasing those out of the data either.

Given that >70% of the NFL and NBA are black, I'd first question how much of this is related to black athletes being more likely to leave school early for the pros.

It would be interesting to see this broken down by sport, and whether the same discrepancy exists in sports without lucrative pro-leagues.

I'd question culture, and whether the communities that black athletes are associated with put the same value on a college degree. There's data suggesting that a college degree doesn't financially help blacks to the degree it does whites, so if this suspected valuation is correct, it may be founded on good reason.

If the implication is supposed to be that universities are biased against blacks trying to fonish school, I wouldnt immediately dismiss it, but I'd have to see a lot more correlating data to be convinced. The schools I follow seem to tout their diversity and appear to want to claim as many black grads as possible.
 

tante

Club Member
Club Member
Ok, interesting, but this seems loke a significant tangent fom what we were discussing. Interesting nevertheless. If I'm supposed to connect this to the stipend and guaranteed 4 year scholarship discussion, I'm missing the connection.

Anyway, on this tangent...

The linked piece doesn't dive into root cause, and I'm not easily teasing those out of the data either.

Given that >70% of the NFL and NBA are black, I'd first question how much of this is related to black athletes being more likely to leave school early for the pros.

It would be interesting to see this broken down by sport, and whether the same discrepancy exists in sports without lucrative pro-leagues.

I'd question culture, and whether the communities that black athletes are associated with put the same value on a college degree. There's data suggesting that a college degree doesn't financially help blacks to the degree it does whites, so if this suspected valuation is correct, it may be founded on good reason.

If the implication is supposed to be that universities are biased against blacks trying to fonish school, I wouldnt immediately dismiss it, but I'd have to see a lot more correlating data to be convinced. The schools I follow seem to tout their diversity and appear to want to claim as many black grads as possible.
Are you going to provide any evidence supporting your claims? It seems easy for you to dismiss other people data when it doesn't fit your narrative.
 

hokiehead

Gobbler on the Mountain!
Club Member
Are you going to provide any evidence supporting your claims? It seems easy for you to dismiss other people data when it doesn't fit your narrative.
You bet.

Nfl by race
Nba by race

The only other claim I made was about the article you linked not exploring root causes.

Curious, what data do you believe that I dismissed? What, with respect to this subject, do you believe is "my narrative"?
 

tante

Club Member
Club Member
You bet.

Nfl by race
Nba by race

The only other claim I made was about the article you linked not exploring root causes.

Curious, what data do you believe that I dismissed? What, with respect to this subject, do you believe is "my narrative"?
interesting you thought that was the part of your argument that you thought I need evidence for.

Why do you think the NCAA created APR or changed the junior college entry requirements? Because schools will do the absolute minimum possible. They create fake classes or lower admission requirements, which shows that they value winning. The system only cares about production and makes the athlete expendable. From the fans up to the school, they all promote this student athlete myth, in reality the superstars and are exploited and the under-performers are dead weight to the program. If they truly are students why can't they be social media influencers, like every other student.

I just want these kids to have the ability to turn their skills into a college degree. The onus should be on the school to give these kids a real education and skills they can use in life. I don't know how someone could argue that college sports isn't a billion business that measures success in wins and loses that pays their talent in currency that is nearly worthless and will lie and cheat to win. So while black athlete graduation rates is always nice marketing materials for mom and dad, it would be even nicer to know that a school can't take their minimal compensation as soon as you don't meet their athletic standards.

 

Alfred91

Arabic numeral jihadi
Club Member
interesting you thought that was the part of your argument that you thought I need evidence for.

Why do you think the NCAA created APR or changed the junior college entry requirements? Because schools will do the absolute minimum possible. They create fake classes or lower admission requirements, which shows that they value winning. The system only cares about production and makes the athlete expendable. From the fans up to the school, they all promote this student athlete myth, in reality the superstars and are exploited and the under-performers are dead weight to the program. If they truly are students why can't they be social media influencers, like every other student.

I just want these kids to have the ability to turn their skills into a college degree. The onus should be on the school to give these kids a real education and skills they can use in life. I don't know how someone could argue that college sports isn't a billion business that measures success in wins and loses that pays their talent in currency that is nearly worthless and will lie and cheat to win. So while black athlete graduation rates is always nice marketing materials for mom and dad, it would be even nicer to know that a school can't take their minimal compensation as soon as you don't meet their athletic standards.

Gotta love a sign promoting education with an obvious grammatical error right in the middle of it.
 

hokiehead

Gobbler on the Mountain!
Club Member
interesting you thought that was the part of your argument that you thought I need evidence for.

Why do you think the NCAA created APR or changed the junior college entry requirements? Because schools will do the absolute minimum possible. They create fake classes or lower admission requirements, which shows that they value winning. The system only cares about production and makes the athlete expendable. From the fans up to the school, they all promote this student athlete myth, in reality the superstars and are exploited and the under-performers are dead weight to the program. If they truly are students why can't they be social media influencers, like every other student.

I just want these kids to have the ability to turn their skills into a college degree. The onus should be on the school to give these kids a real education and skills they can use in life. I don't know how someone could argue that college sports isn't a billion business that measures success in wins and loses that pays their talent in currency that is nearly worthless and will lie and cheat to win. So while black athlete graduation rates is always nice marketing materials for mom and dad, it would be even nicer to know that a school can't take their minimal compensation as soon as you don't meet their athletic standards.

Come on, man. I'm trying to have a reasonable discussion in good faith and you're moving the goal posts, seemingly to a different stadium.

You asked me for data to back my claims in post 842. I made three claims in that post, provided links to data for two and pointed out the third was about the content of a link you provided.

I did exactly what you asked and then you post "that's interesting" and imply you were asking for something else.

What else were you looking for?
 

Buffnik

Real name isn't Nik
Club Member
Junta Member
The noteworthy part is that he won't be required to testify.
Wilner covered this well in his Pac-12 Newsletter today:

Stand Down

Arizona coach Sean Miller has seemingly cleared a momentous hurdle in his quest for normalcy and job security. By extension, the Pac-12 is that much closer to having one of its marquee programs return to its historical standard.

U.S. District Court Judge Edgardo Ramos ruled Friday morning that Miller won't have to testify next week in a federal corruption trial involving two-bit agent Christian Dawkins.

Ramos reserved the right to change his mind but has concluded, at this point, that testimony from Miller and LSU coach Will Wade is immaterial to the charges against Dawkins.

Per law360's Pete Brush, who attended the pre-trial hearing today:

"Question of whether Arizona men's coach Sean Miller paid his players is 'irrelevant' to bribery charges."

Everything Miller needed to go right has broken in his favor:
• Former assistant Book Richardson accepted a plea deal and didn't take the stand.
• Miller won't testify about his relationship with Dawkins, about the sport's seedy underworld ... none of it.
• His conversation with Dawkins reportedly caught on wiretap won't be played in the courtroom.

If you're scoring at home, he's three-for-three. And unless something changes next week during the trial, there is only one obstacle remaining: The NCAA.

Bylaw 11.1.1.1 allows the NCAA to hold head coaches accountable for actions of their staff. Ignorance is not a defense, in other words.

It's difficult to image a scenario by which Miller isn't sanctioned for Richardson's transgressions -- they have worked closely together for years -- and those sanctions could be severe.

Compared to Miller taking the stand in a federal corruption trial in New York City, however, an NCAA investigation probably seems manageable to the Wildcats ... at least for the moment. -- Jon Wilner
 

DBT

Club Member
Club Member
Luckily, we can count on the NCAA and it’s crack team of investigators to pursue corruption at Arizona, USC and Oregon.
 

Uncle Luko

Peckerwood
Club Member
The programs that can afford to cheat, how many do y'all think are? I'd think the number would be pretty high. Anyway, just a question.
 

buffaholic

Club Member
Club Member
I feel comfortable saying there are 353 in Division 1 ball that can afford to cheat and that are cheating.
While I think that it's somewhat widespread at the top, are you saying that all D1 MBB teams are paying their players?
 

Goose

Hoops Moderator
Club Member
Junta Member
While I think that it's somewhat widespread at the top, are you saying that all D1 MBB teams are paying their players?
I think it's safe to say that a little cash is showing up in someone on every team's pockets, yes.
 

Uncle Luko

Peckerwood
Club Member
There is bending the rules, and there is funneling $100,000 to a recruit.

If Tad is cheating like Sean Miller, then he should be fired for incompetence.
They get higher level recruits than CU. I doubt our guys would get that kind of jack.
 
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