Who are the top 10 Buff players for the 2018 season?

[GoldenSkier]

Maybe Winfree is that #2, which would be great.

My point is we're ****ed if no one steps up as a true #1 this season. "Depth" is nice, but you need a star at that position.

Not sure you need a flat out star at the position or else you're "****ed." During the P12 South run we didn't really have a true #1, but instead had a group that complemented each other. If each brings something unique to the table then that makes us dangerous. Winfree, Ento, Nixon, Shenault, Arias, and Jackson is just as good a group (I'd even argue better) as the core we had during the P12 South run. To your point, Richardson and Spruce were both true #1s and we were way more ****ed then. An offense is waaay more than just having a stud #1 and can be successful without one if it has a good QB/run game.

 

[Not Sure]

The same offense that targeted Spruce 20 times a game?

More like the offense that threw to Ross, Bobo and Fields pretty much evenly throughout the course of two seasons.

Spruce was targeted 20 times a game, and PRich the same, because they were way, way better than everybody else on the team at the time. Would Spruce be targeted 20 times a game in this offense with these players? I doubt it. Even PRich, as great as he is, wouldn’t see the kind of production now as he did then.

The point I’m trying to make is that I don’t think the coaches want there to be one guy that is the go-to guy. They want three or four guys who can all be productive and get meaningful catches at any given point in the game.

That’s not a weakness in design or the sign of a poorly constructed offense, IMO.

 

[Duff Man]

Not sure you need a flat out star at the position or else you're "****ed." During the P12 South run we didn't really have a true #1, but instead had a group that complemented each other. If each brings something unique to the table then that makes us dangerous. Winfree, Ento, Nixon, Shenault, Arias, and Jackson is just as good a group (I'd even argue better) as the core we had during the P12 South run. To your point, Richardson and Spruce were both true #1s and we were way more ****ed then. An offense is waaay more than just having a stud #1 and can be successful without one if it has a good QB/run game.

That offense struggled down the stretch. An offense without a go-to receiver is prone to lapses in production.

Maybe I am completely wrong, but the way some of you guys describe this mystical offense is pretty strange.

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

In 2016, you had a QB that could make his reads quickly and get the ball in the hands of the open guy. Montez is much more read/react, as most running QB's are. For this offense to be successful with a QB like that, you need a WR that is open, even when they aren't.

Personally think Viska is that guy. He flashed enough last year for me. Viska as your #1, Winfree #2, Ento/MacIntyre #3/#4. Then Nixon, Jackson*, Bell all have the potential to hit home runs and can be used in a variety of formations.


*assuming healthy

 

[GoldenSkier]

That offense struggled down the stretch. An offense without a go-to receiver is prone to lapses in production.

Maybe I am completely wrong, but the way some of you guys describe this mystical offense is pretty strange.

That is true. Both offenses that had no "go to" struggled (2016-2017). The 2016 offense really slowed down at the end of the season. Do you see winfree as a a guy that could take that step forward this season? He had the size and speed imo

 

[FLounder]

Honestly we have enough wide outs to run a rocket route every play to tire out the D. Why not use 1/3 or 1/4 of your wrs on any give down to just full sprint for a Hail Mary.

 

[BuffsNYC]

That offense struggled down the stretch. An offense without a go-to receiver is prone to lapses in production.

Maybe I am completely wrong, but the way some of you guys describe this mystical offense is pretty strange.

I think there's a difference between an offense designed for there to be a go-to receiver and a player that turns out to be a go-to receiver. PRich was a guy you could count on to get open no matter the coverage. Spruce was a guy who could come down with the ball no matter the coverage. If one of our receivers shows that they can do either (or, even better, both) then he will get a plurality of the throws. My bet would be Ento.

 

[Duff Man]

I think there's a difference between an offense designed for there to be a go-to receiver and a player that turns out to be a go-to receiver. PRich was a guy you could count on to get open no matter the coverage. Spruce was a guy who could come down with the ball no matter the coverage. If one of our receivers shows that they can do either (or, even better, both) then he will get a plurality of the throws. My bet would be Ento.

Every play has the progressions though. An offense where there are equal numbers of primary receiver plays for your top four WRs will not work unless you have about the most ridiculously talented WR group imaginable.

The top guys are always going to separate themselves. Specifically designing an offense to prevent that seems pretty dumb.

 

[Duff Man]

That is true. Both offenses that had no "go to" struggled (2016-2017). The 2016 offense really slowed down at the end of the season. Do you see winfree as a a guy that could take that step forward this season? He had the size and speed imo

I hope so.

 

[Buffnik]

Every play has the progressions though. An offense where there are equal numbers of primary receivers for your top four WRs will not work unless you have about the most ridiculously talented WR group.

The top guys are always going to separate themselves. Specifically designing an offense to prevent that seems pretty dumb.

Exactly. If we’re the ‘98 Vikings with Moss, Carter and Reed then of course there’s no #1 primary on most plays and when the QB’s in trouble & has to throw a 50/50 ball. But that’s rarely the case. Most often, if you don’t have a #1 it is because you don’t have a star talent at the position. This is not a scheme discussion, it’s a personnel discussion.

 

[patebuff]

Viska has all the tools to be a superstar. The coaches should be finding every possible way to get that guy the ball as often as possible.

I really think Ento can be a great Red Zone threat in this offense as well with his length and size.

 

[hawg1]

Honestly we have enough wide outs to run a rocket route every play to tire out the D. Why not use 1/3 or 1/4 of your wrs on any give down to just full sprint for a Hail Mary.

Because that requires protection.

 

[FM-Buff]

Viska has all the tools to be a superstar. The coaches should be finding every possible way to get that guy the ball as often as possible.

I really think Ento can be a great Red Zone threat in this offense as well with his length and size.

Correct. Not getting him the touches this fall would be a bigger issue than our DLine recruiting.

 

[onealcd]

I do think heavily concentrating on Viska or Winfree could open up more of a boom or bust offense like Woods was referencing after the USC game last year. It limits progressions for Montez and opens up play action more, especially for the tight end. I thought it was interesting the last time we had a productive receiving year from out TE was in 2014 with Frazier because Spruce was targeted so much.

 

[hawg1]

I do think heavily concentrating on Viska or Winfree could open up more of a boom or bust offense like Woods was referencing after the USC game last year. It limits progressions for Montez and opens up play action more, especially for the tight end. I thought it was interesting the last time we had a productive receiving year from out TE was in 2014 with Frazier because Spruce was targeted so much.

How Chiv uses Tight Slot (I no longer say end) will be interesting this year.

 

[8Jah]

Falo's not a pass rusher.

I think it's got to be someone from Callier/ Tchangam/ Wells who steps up and gives us an edge pass rush.

Right now this is my biggest concern about the 2018 team.

I worry that the pass rush problem is a coaching issue more than an athlete issue. Maybe Elliot's BDB tendencies make him a pretty conservative guy. If so he doesn't spend a lot of time thinking about different pressures.

In 2016 we were aggressive as hell. Those corner blitzes took massive cojones that Elliot just might not have the frame to carry.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

I worry that the pass rush problem is a coaching issue more than an athlete issue. Maybe Elliot's BDB tendencies make him a pretty conservative guy. If so he doesn't spend a lot of time thinking about different pressures.

In 2016 we were aggressive as hell. Those corner blitzes took massive cojones that Elliot just might not have the frame to carry.

This team needs to be generating a pass rush with the front 4 consistently, just as much as with the more exotic blitz packages. So, yes, while Eliot's philosophy may have been more conservative than Leavitt's, Eliot also didn't and won't have a guy of Jimmie Gilbert's caliber off the edge. In short, it's both a coaching and an athlete issue. Let's hope that Callier, Wells, Tchangam, and Falo can provide what was missing last year.

 

[The Ogre]

How Chiv uses Tight Slot (I no longer say end) will be interesting this year.

Descriptive, but “tight slot” has zero chance of widespread use in today’s society.

But yes, you’d think all the big time TE offers are for a reason, and need to be shown something. Balance created by using the position more would sure be nice to see, too.

 

[Duff Man]

This team needs to be generating a pass rush with the front 4 consistently, just as much as with the more exotic blitz packages. So, yes, while Eliot's philosophy may have been more conservative than Leavitt's, Eliot also didn't and won't have a guy of Jimmie Gilbert's caliber off the edge. In short, it's both a coaching and an athlete issue. Let's hope that Callier, Wells, Tchangam, and Falo can provide what was missing last year.

Not to mention we were much better in the secondary in 2016. Bringing blitzes from the secondary is a lot easier when you have a secondary which can hold up.

 

[buffaholic]

Honestly we have enough wide outs to run a rocket route every play to tire out the D. Why not use 1/3 or 1/4 of your wrs on any give down to just full sprint for a Hail Mary.

Because both sides have the same contribution in terms of "tire out"? What's accomplished by that?

 

[buffaholic]

I worry that the pass rush problem is a coaching issue more than an athlete issue. Maybe Elliot's BDB tendencies make him a pretty conservative guy. If so he doesn't spend a lot of time thinking about different pressures.

In 2016 we were aggressive as hell. Those corner blitzes took massive cojones that Elliot just might not have the frame to carry.

I seem to recall at the time of Elliot's hiring, that having coached some good pass rushers seemed to be the selling point. Too lazy to start a research project on this. A lot easier to say we lost Jimmy G and a front three who made it difficult for teams up front, without blitzing.

 

[8Jah]

This team needs to be generating a pass rush with the front 4 consistently, just as much as with the more exotic blitz packages. So, yes, while Eliot's philosophy may have been more conservative than Leavitt's, Eliot also didn't and won't have a guy of Jimmie Gilbert's caliber off the edge. In short, it's both a coaching and an athlete issue. Let's hope that Callier, Wells, Tchangam, and Falo can provide what was missing last year.

I never saw Gilbert as a superstud. I did enjoy watching him his senior year, but he benefited a lot from the play calling. Thought we got inside the OODA loop of the teams we beat and that caused a lot of confusion that Gilbert capitalized on.

I really like the folks that we have at OLB now even better.

Totally agree we have to generate consistent pressure with our front, but that job is easier if they are constantly guessing.

 

[8Jah]

My only concerns are coaching, Dline and depth at safety.

 

[Duff Man]

I never saw Gilbert as a superstud. I did enjoy watching him his senior year, but he benefited a lot from the play calling. Thought we got inside the ODA loop of the teams we beat and that caused a lot of confusion that Gilbert capitalized on.

I really like the folks that we have at OLB now even better.

Totally agree we have to generate consistent pressure with our front, but that job is easier if they are constantly guessing.

I do not think anyone viewed Gilbert as a "superstud," but he was unquestionably an above average pass rusher. The void was noticeable last season because the best option was a tweener, true freshman Jacob Callier.

 

[8Jah]

I do not think anyone viewed Gilbert as a "superstud," but he was unquestionably an above average pass rusher. The void was noticeable last season because the best option was a tweener, true freshman Jacob Callier.

What happened to MacCartney? How come he looked so bad? He generated alot of pass rush in 2015 and early 2016.

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

What happened to MacCartney? How come he looked so bad? He generated alot of pass rush in 2015 and early 2016.

He was returning from an ACL injury that limited his burst?

 

[Duff Man]

What happened to MacCartney? How come he looked so bad? He generated alot of pass rush in 2015 and early 2016.

Knee injury and he has never been a pure pass rusher. Much better as a strong side defender.

His injury in 2016 really had a bigger effect on the run defense.

 

[8Jah]

Knee injury and he has never been a pure pass rusher. Much better as a strong side defender.

His injury in 2016 really had a bigger effect on the run defense.

Possibly, but lots of folks have had torn ACLs and came back; many on the 2017 team. He was the strong side OLB...for sure more of a run stuffer - but he had less sacks in 17 than he had as a sophomore and he was on alot of folks watch lists to break out.

My worry is that what he really suffered from was a methodical, but predictable defense where he was seen only as the contain man. This goes back to the 'why did Mark Stoops take over defensive play calling at Kentucky' worry.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

Possibly, but lots of folks have had torn ACLs and came back; many on the 2017 team. He was the strong side OLB...for sure more of a run stuffer - but he had less sacks in 17 than he had as a sophomore and he was on alot of folks watch lists to break out.

My worry is that what he really suffered from was a methodical, but predictable defense where he was seen only as the contain man. This goes back to the 'why did Mark Stoops take over defensive play calling at Kentucky' worry.

Who from the 2017 defense came back from from a torn ACL in 2016?

 

[patebuff]

Knee injury and he has never been a pure pass rusher. Much better as a strong side defender.

His injury in 2016 really had a bigger effect on the run defense.

And created the vaunted buff backer position.