He was noticeably slower in 2017 and it was not due to slow reads.
I get the concern over Eliot, but you are a little all over the place. How is a DL a worry to you? You spent countless posts defending the state of the DL over the last year.
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Who are the top 10 Buff players for the 2018 season?
- Thread starter Buffnik
- Start date
He was noticeably slower in 2017 and it was not due to slow reads.
I get the concern over Eliot, but you are a little all over the place. How is a DL a worry to you? You spent countless posts defending the state of the DL over the last year.
8Jah
Well-Known Member
I'm not all over the place. Our DL was bad last year - I never once defended it. The debate was over the cause. Why was it bad? Was it the coach, was it the scheme, was it the players, was it recruiting, was it bad luck, all the above, etc...? I said positive things about Jeffcoat as a position coach; which it turned out was a major sin here.
Everything but bad luck.
And yeah, Jeffcoat was a major reason we stunk on the DL last year.
8Jah
Well-Known Member
Whatever your feelings about JJ, we lost three starters on the DL from 2016 and 2 of three starters in 2017 were new to the program. One of those two new guys started to look pretty good by the end of the season. The other one tired out so quickly it was hard to say he showed improvement.
...and we were in that situation because JJ was not interested in recruiting. Sorry you cannot see the obvious connection.
But I thought everything was clearly Eliot's fault? You're all over the place.
8Jah
Well-Known Member
Said JJ was a good position coach - that is teacher and motivator. Didn't say that JJ was a good recruiter. In fact, he had health issues that limited his travels - which put a big damper on recruiting in the later years. ...but even then, I think that the issues recruiting NTs was a bigger team recruiting strategy problem that extended past JJ.
8Jah
Well-Known Member
Way to bait.
dyemeduke
Well-Known Member
I'm not a JJ fan, but I can get on board with this comment. A friend of mine played DL for CU and occasionally keeps in touch with the team. I was bitching about JJ to him one day, and he said he disagreed. He thought that JJ was a good coach, so I'll take that. Was he a good recruiter... ...of course everyone acknowledges that he sucked, but he was a good teacher.
He was not a good position coach either, but keep digging.
8Jah
Well-Known Member
Keep baiting
GoldenSkier
Well-Known Member
@Duff Man has long been a master baiter. Some say it's a chronic issue of his.
All jokes aside Drake has already shown to be an upgrade over JJ. The guy did lose a lot of people last year, but there was no improvement throughout the season. I'm excited to see what Drake will do w Edwards, Lang and Antwine
You have consistently gone out of your way to place all the credit for the 2016 defense at Leavitts feet and all the blame for 2017 on Eliot, yet sit here and talk about how much was lost on the DL from 16 to 17 and how that was a huge factor in performance. You’re speaking out of both sides. How is that baiting?
GoldenSkier
Well-Known Member
¿Is it possible there were multiple causes? Our defensive line was attrocious. Plus we lost one of the best coordinators in college fb and replaced him w an unproven guy. The way you just stated his argument reads logically until your last two sentences, which you added to provoke a response. That's not speaking from both sides, what you just summarized is a valid argument.
Again, you seem all over the place as to where the problems lie.
Of course there are multiple reasons for the defensive regression. However, you can’t give all the credit to the DC for success and very little to the players (an argument he made a while back), then turn around and defend the old DL coach for awful performance in 17, by saying they lost 3 starters. Is it the players or the coach? He then blames Eliot for a slow, non-attacking defense for McCartneys falloff, and deflects blame from the player. He is simply blaming/praising the coach/players that fit his narrative.
In reality, Leavitt was/is a fantastic coach who came into a great situation with an absolutely loaded defense with 8 guys who saw the NFL. Eliot inherited the same expectations, with 8 fewer dudes and 3 brand new ones on the DL. Also, Jim Jeffcoat is one of the worst coaches/recruiters to be employed at CU during the MM era.
8Jah
Well-Known Member
Maybe some of the lawyers here can help you and @Duffman out with the following lesson. You can't always go from a specific interpretation to a general one.
A few posts back I said that Elliot's conservative play calling was the main reason we lacked a good pass rush in 2017. From that you state that I blame all poor performance on Elliot. If I came back tomorrow and said that I think Elliot has a good focus on skills, you would claim that I am all over the place.
We were good in 2016 for many reasons, but I think the biggest is Leavitt. Even if Leavitt would have stayed I would have expected us to go from the S&P 12th rated defense in 2016 to somewhere in the vicinity of the 50th because we lost the whole defensive line. Instead we dropped all the way to the 100th S&P defense...all the way back to where we were before Leavitt arrived. So there was something more wrong than just losing players. Was it all Elliot's fault...I haven't said that. Some of it was. So I CAN give Leavitt much of the credit for 2016, while at the SAME TIME admitting that we took a hit when we lost our entire DL, while also at the SAME TIME arguing that something deeper was wrong in 2017, while also NOT blaming everything on Elliot.
I think we were really good because of Leavitt in 2016. That defense was a top 20 unit in basically every category.
2017 was a mess because of a lot of factors, but mostly we were really bad due to an black hole in recruiting on the DL. We had to play two JUCO transfers a lot because we had no real answers from high school players recruited in a FIVE YEAR time span. You think it was mostly a lack of NT talent/depth, but we could barely scrape together a two-deep at any position amongst the front three. Losing the entire DL from 2016 is just an excuse more than anything if you ignore the broader issues at play there.
And 2016 wouldn't have even happened if Tupou and Samson hadn't spent a year on suspension. The starting DL was almost Jackson, Carrell and Franke that year. Fortunately, we got 2 guys back that Mike Tuiasosopo had recruited.