That 2014 class, yikes.I think one way to judge a class and the trajectory of the program is to compare the current class to the class from 4 years previous.
2017 was a lot better than 2013.
2018 was a lot better than 2014.
That 2014 class, yikes.I think one way to judge a class and the trajectory of the program is to compare the current class to the class from 4 years previous.
2017 was a lot better than 2013.
2018 was a lot better than 2014.
I agree to a point, but the 2013 and 2014 classes were laughably terrible.I think one way to judge a class and the trajectory of the program is to compare the current class to the class from 4 years previous.
2017 was a lot better than 2013.
2018 was a lot better than 2014.
2013 definitely wasn't laughably terrible, might have been ranked low but performed pretty well on the field.I agree to a point, but the 2013 and 2014 classes were laughably terrible.
Yeah, definitely some good players in that class with a few that were elite. Transition classes are always tough, so do give them at least a break there.2013 definitely wasn't laughably terrible, might have been ranked low but performed pretty well on the field.
As I said, it's one way to evaluate things.I agree to a point, but the 2013 and 2014 classes were laughably terrible.
I agree with this and I think we need to accept the fact that Mac values the coach over recruiter in his ACs. Yes, he's slowly and methodically added better recruiters to his staff, but none of them are recruiting "aces" and that hasn't been the primary requirement. If 2017 and 2018 are the baseline classes for CU going forward under Mac then the team will be competitive year in, year out, likely be a perennial bowl team, and every 4 or 5 years contend for the South. I think we all aspire for this program to be better than that, but I'm not sure that will be the case under Mac.This is a class that has some players who will be good down the road, which is fine if you can maintain that each and every year without major attrition and very minimal injuries. I don't see a player who is an absolute stud (except for Taylor and McMillian, who I think will be very good).
We keep saying recruiting needs to improve each and every year. I am convinced this is what recruiting looks like under MM. He's had plenty of time to change that and given plenty of time to change that. I do like the assistants he has brought in this year and think that will help a little, but I just don't ever see top 25 consistent recruiting classes under MM.
As I said, it's one way to evaluate things.
The second level is to ask yourself if we get results for the 2019 & 2020 classes that are similar to the 2017 & 2018 classes, will the roster look better than it does today?
The third level is to ask yourself if, even with that improvement, it's good enough to challenge for Pac-12 championships?
My skepticism is on the third level. I have positive answers on the first 2 levels. But improvement is very methodical, not exponential. We were so bad when MacIntyre took over that the gap between there and where we needed to be was enormous. To the point where things could improve a lot and it still wouldn't be a team that would have a winning record in conference play.
I guess where I'm at is that I'm impatient. A certain level of impatience is a good thing because it sets standards and applies pressure. But too much impatience can cause rash decisions that kill something that's healthy and growing. I don't know where my impatience meter should be right now.
Good post.As I said, it's one way to evaluate things.
The second level is to ask yourself if we get results for the 2019 & 2020 classes that are similar to the 2017 & 2018 classes, will the roster look better than it does today?
The third level is to ask yourself if, even with that improvement, it's good enough to challenge for Pac-12 championships?
My skepticism is on the third level. I have positive answers on the first 2 levels. But improvement is very methodical, not exponential. We were so bad when MacIntyre took over that the gap between there and where we needed to be was enormous. To the point where things could improve a lot and it still wouldn't be a team that would have a winning record in conference play.
I guess where I'm at is that I'm impatient. A certain level of impatience is a good thing because it sets standards and applies pressure. But too much impatience can cause rash decisions that kill something that's healthy and growing. I don't know where my impatience meter should be right now.
I think too much impatience after the 2015 season where they were so close to a bowl game would have obviously been a killer. However, after the success in 2016, followed up by the disappointing season last year, I think "too much impatience" right now is warranted.As I said, it's one way to evaluate things.
The second level is to ask yourself if we get results for the 2019 & 2020 classes that are similar to the 2017 & 2018 classes, will the roster look better than it does today?
The third level is to ask yourself if, even with that improvement, it's good enough to challenge for Pac-12 championships?
My skepticism is on the third level. I have positive answers on the first 2 levels. But improvement is very methodical, not exponential. We were so bad when MacIntyre took over that the gap between there and where we needed to be was enormous. To the point where things could improve a lot and it still wouldn't be a team that would have a winning record in conference play.
I guess where I'm at is that I'm impatient. A certain level of impatience is a good thing because it sets standards and applies pressure. But too much impatience can cause rash decisions that kill something that's healthy and growing. I don't know where my impatience meter should be right now.
If the rumor is true that RG was livid with MM in regards to the whole off-season issues (with a huge salary raise at that) and how they preformed early in the season, I think MM is on a short leash going forward.I think too much impatience after the 2015 season where they were so close to a bowl game would have obviously been a killer. However, after the success in 2016, followed up by the disappointing season last year, I think "too much impatience" right now is warranted.
I agree with @TSchekler on this one. We should be impatient at this point. Six years is a long time. This coming season CU has to be back in a bowl game and recruiting for the 2019 class has to be better, not a little better, a lot better (Top 25). There are zero excuses for it not to be, and even MM is setting up 19 to be a big recruiting year by saying they really got a jump start on the 19 class.I think too much impatience after the 2015 season where they were so close to a bowl game would have obviously been a killer. However, after the success in 2016, followed up by the disappointing season last year, I think "too much impatience" right now is warranted.
In a way, I wonder if the 2016 season gave him a feeling that this type of recruiting can be sustainable each year to compete for conference championships?
It was probably the combination of a perfect storm. Embree senior recruits (who red-shirted) and MM senior recruits. With the ability that they stayed somewhat healthy and had a senior class who were big time leaders, I think you saw an outlier of that type of recruiting.So, is the prevailing sentiment that the success of 2016 (with players from even poorer recruiting classes) was pretty much just a fluke?
So, is the prevailing sentiment that the success of 2016 (with players from even poorer recruiting classes) was pretty much just a fluke?
That secondary was absolutely dirty. Isaiah Oliver couldn't even start.I do not think it was a fluke. That defensive coaching staff outside of Jeffcoat was very, very good.
I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment about a top 25 class. Maybe I'm wrong and the coaching additions really pay dividends on the recruiting trail, but as I said before, I think 2017 and 2018 caliber classes is about the ceiling under Mac at CU.I agree with @TSchekler on this one. We should be impatient at this point. Six years is a long time. This coming season CU has to be back in a bowl game and recruiting for the 2019 class has to be better, not a little better, a lot better (Top 25). There are zero excuses for it not to be, and even MM is setting up 19 to be a big recruiting year by saying they really got a jump start on the 19 class.
Anything less than a bowl and a top 25 class and I expect change (Missing on either isn't acceptable).
I do not think it was a fluke. That defensive coaching staff outside of Jeffcoat was very, very good.
It's not a matter of duplicating that sort of season. You can recruit at a mediocre level and have a season where you catch lightening in a bottle. Speaking for myself (but I think @Duff Man agrees), the issue is that delivering 2016 type seasons will be rare and unsustainable as any sort of a norm without better recruiting.So, here’s my confusion. If recruiting has not taken an appreciable step back from 4-5 years ago (in fact, Nik’s post suggests recruiting has taken a step forward from then), and if very good coaching was the key to the 2016 success, is that level of success something that can be duplicated now even without a leap in recruiting rankings? I get that DJ Eliot has not shown himself to be anywhere near JL as a coordinator to this point. Just trying to think this through.
I think recruiting at this level can result in a Pac 12 South Championship every 4-5 years, but as we saw in 2016, there is still a pretty massive gap between being in the CCG and winning the CCG. I don't think recruiting at this level will ever lead to winning the Pac 12 conference.So, here’s my confusion. If recruiting has not taken an appreciable step back from 4-5 years ago (in fact, Nik’s post suggests recruiting has taken a step forward from then), and if very good coaching was the key to the 2016 success, is that level of success something that can be duplicated now even without a leap in recruiting rankings? I get that DJ Eliot has not shown himself to be anywhere near JL as a coordinator to this point. Just trying to think this through.
Those seasons should happen 3 to 4 times a decade, not once a decade. Hcmm is on Pace for once a decade.It's not a matter of duplicating that sort of season. You can recruit at a mediocre level and have a season where you catch lightening in a bottle. Speaking for myself (but I think @Duff Man agrees), the issue is that delivering 2016 type seasons will be rare and unsustainable as any sort of a norm without better recruiting.
Exactly.Those seasons should happen 3 to 4 times a decade, not once a decade. Hcmm is on Pace for once a decade.
So, here’s my confusion. If recruiting has not taken an appreciable step back from 4-5 years ago (in fact, Nik’s post suggests recruiting has taken a step forward from then), and if very good coaching was the key to the 2016 success, is that level of success something that can be duplicated now even without a leap in recruiting rankings? I get that DJ Eliot has not shown himself to be anywhere near JL as a coordinator to this point. Just trying to think this through.
I think you're right, but I hope you're wrong. I don't think CU can be built into a consistent top 6 PAC program with those classes.I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment about a top 25 class. Maybe I'm wrong and the coaching additions really pay dividends on the recruiting trail, but as I said before, I think 2017 and 2018 caliber classes is about the ceiling under Mac at CU.
It's not a matter of duplicating that sort of season. You can recruit at a mediocre level and have a season where you catch lightening in a bottle. Speaking for myself (but I think @Duff Man agrees), the issue is that delivering 2016 type seasons will be rare and unsustainable as any sort of a norm without better recruiting.
I think the lack of talent tends to show up in the "off" years.