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Shedeur Sanders - 2023-25 Tracking History Thread
- Thread starter #1 pick
- Start date
Baker Mayfield went #1 and he was arrogant as ****. I wonder what the difference could be? Hmmmm
Trying to imagine the reaction to Shedeur planting a flag on Ohio states field.
Exactamundo. The Raiders are going to be sending out rumors about how NFL GMs don't think he's going to be an NFL QB right up until the moment they pick him.
It's that time of year, no games to talk about, the combine is a non-event and we still have a gap until the actual draft.
Lots of these guys are busy pulling stuff out of the lower regions of their bodies to find something to get people to read them.
Ever year we get one player, usually a QB, who some yahoos claim is falling off the charts, usually for something not even related to football. When it is related to football you have to wonder if they actually have watched the guy.
This year the focus of the media is going to be on Shedeur. His last name is Sanders, he is highly confident so comes across to those who haven't bothered to look into him as arrogant.
The draft itself is also a strange thing. The teams at the top of the draft board tend to be the ones with the worst management, often with meddling owners and/or over the hill GMs or HCs. Even with all that the idea that Shedeur is going to fall to the 20s or even
out of the 1st round is beyond stupid. The Raiders have the 6th pick, no way he falls past them. The Jets would love it he did and may try to move up to get him. LV may move up to make sure they get him, all assuming that the Browns or Giants don't grab him.And if the draft guys at The Athletic are actually watching anything Shedeur makes more tight window passes and is better at the deep ball that Cam Ward, primarily because he is better with his eyes and decision making. Ward is more of a dual threat to run the ball, something he will need if Tennessee takes him which would be a huge favor to Shedeur.
JMBuffs
Well-Known Member
Playing chicken, but eventually they'll be trading up.
The NFL draft evaluation is so fickle. Shedeur (and Travis) didn't workout and (their) stock is dropping, he'll have his pro-day and be back in the discussion of Top 3 pick.
Scouts are simply too enamored and hung up on the pure arm talent and mostly downplay the things that actually matter for an NFL QB. It’s why Bo Nix was QB6 in the draft but is easily QB2 after year one.
I don’t think Shedeur has elite deep ball skills and he has a propensity to hold the ball too long. However, his “clutch gene” is unmatched, his ability to read a defense both pre and post snap is elite, he plays from the pocket and his toughness is elite.
Those traits are far more important than deep ball arm talent.
I don’t think Shedeur has elite deep ball skills and he has a propensity to hold the ball too long. However, his “clutch gene” is unmatched, his ability to read a defense both pre and post snap is elite, he plays from the pocket and his toughness is elite.
Those traits are far more important than deep ball arm talent.
"Draft Guys" These fvcks across all the outlets never played a down of football, so they can eat a bag. QB (at any level) is about three things and three things only: 1) Seeing and being able to take advantage of what the defense gives you, 2) Putting the ball in the right place at the right time, and 3) Being a leader.
End of fvcking story.
He doesn't have a cannon but his deep ball gets to where his guy can catch it and the other guys can't.
Not comparing SS to him but in 1998 there were those who argued that Ryan Leaf was the best pick because he had the arm to "make all the throws." and that Manning guy didn't. We know how that turned out.
In the NFL everyone has talent, the difference comes from between the ears and as you mention Shedeur is way ahead in reading defenses and making decisions.
Mahomes and Burrow hold the ball forever at times. It's mostly a matter of him maturing as a QB so he picks his spots. I.e., no problem on 3rd & 10 from outside FG range if you extend the play and end up taking a sack instead of throwing it away - but you better damn sure not do it from the opponent's 30 or on an early down.
#1 pick
Well-Known Member
He is accurate on all three levels. Doesn't even having a TWP on deep balls all year and rarely has deep ball turnovers period. Of course, this is the NFL and being smart isn't a common trait with most organizations within the league
I must spoiled because I always thought he was real accurate and had a lot of deep throws
#1 pick
Well-Known Member
Shedeur has never been a transition favorite.
He was rated 37th overall QB on 247sports.com. Between the CU legend' Drew Carter and a kid who couldn't cut it at Tulsa. Note: He dominated in HS. 3 state titles, they forced them out of the state running in his senior year forcing them to be a travel team. Prime felt like they underrated him just because of "me" but I spoke to scouts at that time who just didn't see more than a decent starter at the P5 level. In fact, they thought it was smart to sign with Florida Atlantic instead of going to Alabama, Auburn, or FSU and sitting on the bench, possibly forever.
He was rated a 88 grade by On3 in the transfer portal till they went back and changed his grade. He was tied with the likes of Nebraska legend Jeff Sims and some other scrub QBs and they specifically stated Shedeur couldn't transition to the P5 and that he's just not that good.
Transfer portal breakdown: A look at the 5 busiest teams so far
Here are the five teams that have taken the most commitments out of the transfer portal so far in this cycle.
He gets the same treatment as Chris Paul in transition. Season in HS ends and he's clearly PG1 or PG2 if you considered LeBron a PG in HS. Then the All Star games happen and he drops to PG3 or PG4 behind the likes of Mustapha Shakur, no relation to Pac, Let Shannon Dunk Brown who balled out in the All Star games, and he was flipped between Andrew Lavender who was this undersized PG with tremendous gifts which he used to dominate HS. No one saw CP3 as a potential star but they saw him as polished, can play college basketball right away.
Went to Wake, after a couple of years, once again, PG1. Process starts, no games. He starts dropping. Marvin Williams is the one with the superstar potential. Bogut, due to the weak center position atm is already a top 10 center and is a lock to be #1. Deron has now become PG1, in fact, some are now thinking Felton may have more upside long term. CP3 didn't play a game and fell because while he's the most ready PG in the draft, his upside is limited and he doesn't play a modern game which was dominated by Steve Francis, Baron Davis, Allen Iverson, Jason Kidd, Stephon Marbury, etc. His comps was constantly to a piece, not the guy. Tony Parker and this was before Tony breakout season and Luke Ridnour who just had a breakout season but even then, he wasn't a top 10 PG. Neither of them were.
People keep judging him on his talent but his brain is why he's special. Everyone knew CP3 has high BBIQ but they didn't realize how high it was. It was off the charts. Of course, some saw it but many didn't.
2005 NBA Draft Results | Tankathon
The 2005 NBA Draft featured Andrew Bogut, Marvin Williams, Deron Williams, Chris Paul, and Raymond Felton.
It's hard for people to evaluate players who's superpower is mental (brain). Of course, CP3 went on to have one of the greatest rookie seasons of all time in NBA history. 14th best WAR in NBA history for a rookie, tied with Shaq. 13th best WS/48 for a rookie, ahead of Larry Bird.
NBA & ABA Rookie of the Year (Wilt Chamberlain Trophy) Award Winners | Basketball-Reference.com
Full historical list of Rookie of the Year (Wilt Chamberlain Trophy) winners
www.basketball-reference.com
That's what Shedeur is. He's Chris Paul. If we had even a more talented QB like C.J. Stroud but he struggles with processing, he would look like Marino in his last year at Pitt. An interception machine. Vastly struggling and costing us games. If we had Mac Jones who they like to compare Shedeur to or Teddy Bridgewater, we would suck ass. Those two don't have the mind to overcome their physical limitations when you consider we don't have a running game, a TE, the OL is extremely raw, and all you have is WRs. Now we have damn good WRs but outside of Travis, it's not like we got current Day 1 or early Day 2 guys all over the place. Geno Smith, lmao, we would really suck ass. Geno would make CJ being an interception machine look foolish as he would get replaced by inferior Staub as he simply can't identify what the defense is doing as he doesn't have that experience based on previous levels and previous exposure from a pre snap and mental level.
People don't take into place the level of difficulty it was to perform when your team is this limited and you were responsible for 81% of Colorado's offensive production. You can't do that without a superpower, you just can't. To carry a team, you must have a superpower.
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JMBuffs
Well-Known Member
Joker
#1 pick
Well-Known Member
The player, not the personality. The personality is a jerk
I think it's a great point that what has made Shedeur great and can continue to do so in the NFL is the mental stuff. Confidence that makes him really hard to shake and impossible to break. Drive and commitment to being great at his craft. Diagnosis, awareness, processing and anticipation at a level that only comes when someone has a natural feel for the game and is a film study football nerd.
These are the things that separate players and teams in the NFL. Everyone is a great athlete, so smart beats dumb, maturity and professionalism wins.
There are definitely a lot of front office people who don't get this. They will focus on the fact that nothing physically or athletically stands out as exceptionally good or bad. So they won't grade him as even a 1st round QB prospect. But the ones who do get it will realize that Shedeur's upside is to be Drew Brees with standard size and arm strength for an NFL QB and rate him as a top 5 pick.
These are the things that separate players and teams in the NFL. Everyone is a great athlete, so smart beats dumb, maturity and professionalism wins.
There are definitely a lot of front office people who don't get this. They will focus on the fact that nothing physically or athletically stands out as exceptionally good or bad. So they won't grade him as even a 1st round QB prospect. But the ones who do get it will realize that Shedeur's upside is to be Drew Brees with standard size and arm strength for an NFL QB and rate him as a top 5 pick.
Good comments.
Also worth noting that a lot gets speculated on in terms of Shedeur's relationship with his dad being a negative. Much of it baseless but they still throw it out there.
Worth considering the other side. How many highly successful athletes, especially QBs have a parent or close connection who is/was a coach or player. Everybody, athlete and otherwise who is striving to accomplish something significant runs into difficult times and challenges. People tend to overcome those challenges better when they have a strong support system.
In the case of Shedeur his dad has been both a top level coach and one of the elite players in the game. When those challenges face Shedeur his support system will be there and get him through. His dad has seen and been through injuries, bad locker rooms, management/coaching transition, business/contract distractions, and just about everything else that Shedeur will see as a pro.
Didn't hurt John Elway to have a dad who was a long-time coach, the Manning brothers who's dad was a veteran NFL QB, and on and on.
People who should know better being ignorant. Prime was never a locker room problem in his football or baseball careers. He was an asset and team leader. His influence and involvement through Shedeur will only be a positive.
It's all about clicks, these guys don't get paid for being honest or insightful, they get paid for people watching or reading them and thus the ads that go with it.
We see local guys like Kizla writing trash about local sports names, nationally Perkins getting noticed for his outlandishly bad takes on Jokic, Screamin' A getting attention for being loud, etc.
Being positive doesn't get attention unless it is irrationally positive for certain obsessed fans bases (yeah, looking at you Nebraska) which is how the recruiting services make their money.
Shedeur. I think LV is still in play for him even with Geno there. Feels like they will do whatever it takes to get QB right just like the Falcons did/have tried.
#1 pick
Well-Known Member
I really don't like the Raiders for Shedeur. Chip Kelly scheme is not pre snap friendly. Geno is literally the perfect fit for it. No shock why Seattle traded him to go for Darnold who's a lot better at that part of the game than Geno. Kevin Stefanski scheme is a lot better for Shedeur than anything else I've seen by a mile. I like Callahan scheme too but it doesn't seem like the leadership is on the same page with the HC.
#1 pick
Well-Known Member
The wildest thing on Shedeur isn't really the haters or the online "scout gurus". It's those who were sky high on Shedeur all year. Who have allowed outside noise to effect their scouting on Sanders. I've heard some of the most stupid **** from people I trust. I heard Kurt Warner say, I just tune everyone but the QB out. How the hell can you scout without context. That's the most critical element of scouting is context. It's how you completely miss like Zach Wilson or hit like Justin Herbert. Personnel matters. You aren't going to be a world class intermediate passer no matter who you are if your running game is bad and you have no TE. If your offensive line is ****, you aren't going to be a quick pass team as teams can get to you while only rushing 3 and 4.
I've heard someone say, Colorado needs to run the ball more but at the same token say, the Raiders can't run the ball at all. They must get a RB as they are the worst in the NFL. They got a 3.6 ypc which is the worst in the NFL. Colorado is a 2.6 ypc. By far the worst in the FBS and FCS. It's hilarious how Shedeur has to overcome insane odds and puts up charts like this and still gets hate because he got some bad film...
I've heard someone say, Colorado needs to run the ball more but at the same token say, the Raiders can't run the ball at all. They must get a RB as they are the worst in the NFL. They got a 3.6 ypc which is the worst in the NFL. Colorado is a 2.6 ypc. By far the worst in the FBS and FCS. It's hilarious how Shedeur has to overcome insane odds and puts up charts like this and still gets hate because he got some bad film...
JonSergeantMajor
Well-Known Member
I love Shedeur…I just can’t imagine that a QB that holds on to the ball as long as he does can ever be successful in the NFL.
Super accurate, but he’d much rather risk taking a 20-yard sack than throwing the ball away and keeping the team in field goal range. **** like that will drive NFL coaches nuts!
If he was Lamar Jackson/Michael Vick, that’d be one thing, but he’s pretty much a statue in the pocket.
He has to understand his limitations. It drove me crazy his two years here! Hero ball doesn’t work in the NFL and almost never worked when he did those things for us in the two years he was here (sans last year’s Baylor game).
Watching Bo Nix on the Broncos last year might’ve spoiled me, but that’s a real NFL QB! Shedeur has a lot of work to do to get anywhere close to that.
You don't think he can adapt?
I think at the college level he thought the better opportunity was to take some lumps to try to generate a momentum play. And taking that shot on 2nd & 10 plus a shot at 3rd & 18 was better odds of generating a big play or 1st down than throwing it in the dirt on 2nd down to get 1 shot on a 3rd & 10. Considering that we had no run game so staying on schedule was irrelevant, he was probably right.
I don't think his calculus will yield the same answer in an NFL situation and he'll pick his spots on that.