I don't get the Lopez deal either. Playing DT in 4-3 and DE in 3-4 are not all that different. If he was recruited over, well, that is saying a lot.
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2018 Defense
- Thread starter Highlander
- Start date
Because names on a list do not equal depth and neither of those guys belonged on a D1 field as a defensive lineman.
Exactly. There are quite a few guys who are 6'3, 290# shopping in the Walmart at Stapleton every day. Doesn't mean they are football players...
If your front three are only run stuffers, you are not getting the right players.
A little too strong there Nik and it sort of flames the Tonz hate on this board which is really undeserved.
Tonz is actually pretty athletic and very strong. One of the strongest guys in the weight room and an ass buster, from what I hear. He was recruited as an athlete with the staff wanting him to be at OL all along. Was he going to be great on D? No. But he did get snaps on a D1 line as a Frosh for a very good defensive team. To say he "did not belong on a D1 field...." No. Was he likely to be a big impact player in his career? We can agree no.
With the insta-help coming in (Edwards, etc) on DL, staff was convinced they were thinner at OL and didn't want to peel of the redshirts in a pinch. Remember, this is when they still had Umu as well. And they weren't completely wrong, as he saw PT out of necessity during 2017.
He's practiced there less than a year and was in the two-deep. He has a real shot at PT this year, until he proves he doesn't. I don't have a recent update, but Adams was really high on him early in 2017.
Everyone can stop with the Tonz blasting. If everyone worked as hard as that kid and gave as much, our DL would have been better last year.
Doesn't mean I don't think he can be a very good OG. Gerrad Kough didn't belong on a D1 field as a DL either and he was a good starter for us at OG. This is why the coaches moved Tonz to offense.
I see a lot of ignorant stuff with DL and I don't think people appreciate how quick twitch and agile DLs are at this level. But I still see people posting things like Casey Roddick should be moved to NT because of how big he is.
Is there a single player on this Buffs team who can be "blasted" without you coming in and defending them for whatever reason?
Also, for the record, I don't believe that Phillip Lindsay and Isaiah Oliver would have been good players if they had traded positions.
Having guys in the right position for them is kind of important. Bobo sucked at safety when he considered switching, but he's likely an NFL WR.
Having guys in the right position for them is kind of important. Bobo sucked at safety when he considered switching, but he's likely an NFL WR.
lawdogg
Club Member
Oh, holic has no problem blasting guys (Daysean Rippy, Shay Fields, before last season even Juwann Winfree), it's the unheralded kids he swoops in to protect.
Yeah - I agree with all that. But the guy was getting PT as a frosh. He wasn't awful, just more suited to OL. Kough would never have been allowed to be on the DL. Either would Roddick.
I blasted Rippy for bad attitude. It was first hand info and it turned out true.
I never blasted Fields. I simply said that most on here were over-rating him.
I never blasted Winfree, I simply asked to tone down the All-American hype until he actually got on the field. I also pointed out that he wasn't even the leading WR on his Juco team. I did the same with Huntley, as many on here want to believe that a certain size/shape is all that you need to be an NFL player. Huntley proved that wrong.
I'll always defend the hard workers and dedicated over the Rippy's. Fire away!
I love position switches when they work. I think it is captivating to see a player who clearly has outstanding athleticism develop and thrive at a new position.
Examples:
TE Solder to OT
RB Moeller kicking ass at Safety
DL Nembot moving to OT
George Fraizer playing two ways as a Freshman...and then again as a Sr.
If I remember correctly Dizon was Recruited as a RB/FB and set the world on fire at MLB
Examples:
TE Solder to OT
RB Moeller kicking ass at Safety
DL Nembot moving to OT
George Fraizer playing two ways as a Freshman...and then again as a Sr.
If I remember correctly Dizon was Recruited as a RB/FB and set the world on fire at MLB
Little bitty Jesus. Speaking as just a total Amateur/Generic Fan, let me swoop in here briefly with the observation that there sure are a lot of posters on Allbuffs that have REALLY detailed lengthy opinions on everything Buffs football under the sun. Not putting anyone down, and I really respect 65% of the purely football posts here, but if everyone here is as informed as they purport to be, they'd be getting paid by CU. I get that it's an opinionated school-specific College football board, but damn...
Anyway, carry on. I enjoy all of this, I have no inside info, and I'm not singling anyone out specifically, but I wouldn't bet the house on the "Sum Total" here of folks' Knowledge/Opinions, other than "stuff they hear" from "guys they know". It's all good. It's the Internet.
My rule of thumb is the more I read here that is general/observational from actual games, the more I consider it. The more I hear from Deep Inside dope, the more I question it, on the theory that anyone who actually knows is least likely to put into a public message board.
Anyway, carry on. I enjoy all of this, I have no inside info, and I'm not singling anyone out specifically, but I wouldn't bet the house on the "Sum Total" here of folks' Knowledge/Opinions, other than "stuff they hear" from "guys they know". It's all good. It's the Internet.
My rule of thumb is the more I read here that is general/observational from actual games, the more I consider it. The more I hear from Deep Inside dope, the more I question it, on the theory that anyone who actually knows is least likely to put into a public message board.
On the same note, I think Roberts needs to make a big jump early this spring. Otherwise, he should strongly consider a move to OT. There's a much better opportunity for him there and, like with Tonz, there was a question when he was recruited on whether he was better suited to the OL. Many believed so, but the DL numbers have been so low and the position has been so poorly recruited that he was needed over there.
They should already have enough information on him in my opinion to make the move in the Spring, because it's a big move. I believe Tonz had a higher level of coaching in High School than Roberts, but I'm less familiar with the coaching Roberts got. Just know they are not a powerhouse. Tonz played for a pretty good program in AZ.
8Jah
Well-Known Member
If a 3-4 DL is stout, and no progress is made running the ball up the middle then they have done their job IMHO. If on top of that they can get a pass rush then that is simply a bonus. Lopez just wasn't stout....kind of like Edwards.
A 4-3 DL has to generate a pass rush.
A 4-3 DL has to generate a pass rush.
It's not just that in a 3-4. You are selling it so short on what they actually do. Maintaining a gap in the run game isn't just being a load who anchors in place. Those guys are asked to re-set the line of scrimmage (or at least maintain it), often against double teams, while sliding to the ball to maintain their gaps (those gaps move during the play) and keeping leverage to get off blocks. They also have to collapse the pocket in the pass game. The agility, quick hands and burst they need to do this is impressive. They are not there to be giant boulders we plop down on the field in the spot they lined up. Just because they do a ton of dirty work to keep the LBs clean so that they get to make a lot of plays and get the glory, let's not disrespect what they do and what it takes to be good at it.
GoldenSkier
Well-Known Member
You need some type of pass rush from both. Youre right that 4-3 by definition relies more on its front to pass rush than a 3-4. Look at successful 3-4 defenses and you'll notice their ends are able to get to the qb. I agree that a very stout line can make up for some pass rushing deficiencies, but teams will just pass if they have all day to throw. No Dline pressure forces LBs to blitz which creates more 1v1 situations/holes in the coverage to my understanding. I don't see a pass rush as a bonus, but rather something that is essential to be competitive in modern CFB.
If you do not have at least one from three player who can collapse the pocket on some pass plays, I would say you are in real trouble. You are basically relegating the front three to role players for 35-40 plays a game.
Think about guys like Malik Jackson, Calais Campbell, JJ Watt, Derek Wolfe, Fletcher Cox, etc. Those are all DL who play with their hand in the dirt in a 3-4 defense. Those positions should never just be relegated as run stuffers.
JOEinDenver
National Championship or Bust
Ray Polk
JOEinDenver
National Championship or Bust
Another point on the requirements for a 3-4 DL that I hope some of you guys mediate upon is how much Javier Edwards struggled this year. He is the biggest DL who has ever played at CU. He is also one of the strongest guys in the weight room.
You can't just put a big, strong guy in there and expect him to succeed. There's so much technique involved and it is HARD. Javier will be worlds better in 2018, too.
You can't just put a big, strong guy in there and expect him to succeed. There's so much technique involved and it is HARD. Javier will be worlds better in 2018, too.
We neeed to clarify some things here:
1) Nembot HAD to move to OT, and it sort of worked out well - see Nik’s post on DL vs OL traits
2) Frazier has been playing on both sides through necessity, not because it was a good idea. If you disagree, please find me key stats on offense or defense last year (not prior, last year) to back that up.
3) Dizon was recruited as an athlete/DB. We started him off in as a safety. It was obvious before fall camp completed that:
A) he was too slow to be a Safety
B) he was nasty and loved to hit
C) so they tried him at LB just to see what would happen, and it turned out that he now had speed to spare and his nastiness let him be successful as an undersized LB
Position switches are normally an indication of a player that simply won’t see the field at the current position, so let’s take a wild ass guess that just maybe we get something out of them at this other position. The variant scenario is Bisharat, who would be a great LB, but just refuses to switch.
Has MAC always ran a 3-4?
It seems that there is always a hint of Bill Parcells in everything he does! Parcells ran a two gap 3-4, is that what we run?
The brilliant new coaches that are having success take the amazing experiences they get with mentors and other great coaches they get to work with, and then learn how to adapt to their situation. You can aim and head towards your desired plan, but once you have to play the hand you have, then the great ones get creative and make everything work out by bluffing, disguising, and out thinking your opponent.
It seems that there is always a hint of Bill Parcells in everything he does! Parcells ran a two gap 3-4, is that what we run?
The brilliant new coaches that are having success take the amazing experiences they get with mentors and other great coaches they get to work with, and then learn how to adapt to their situation. You can aim and head towards your desired plan, but once you have to play the hand you have, then the great ones get creative and make everything work out by bluffing, disguising, and out thinking your opponent.
vinniew_11
Well-Known Member
The whole Bish thing is a joke. Refuses to move? Do we know if the staff has asked him? Do we know if he would ever be a good LB? Or is that the AllBuffs expert talent evaluators talking?
Mac came in with Baer's 4-3. He's much more focused on the back of the defense and how the secondary plays things and the front 7 doesn't matter much with that. But with the speed and spread formations he was seeing in the Pac-12 with teams going so quickly, he wanted to get more speed on the field. Obviously 4 LBs and 3 DLs is faster than 4 DLs and 3 LBs, so he wanted to make the switch. Leavitt was brought in because he's a great LB coach who had been a big part of that 49ers defensive staff that delivered one of the best 3-4 defenses in the NFL.
Seems to me that he wants to stay with that. However, it sounds like Eliot wants to do some different things with the DL to mix in more 1-gap with those guys and also have the "Jimmie Gilbert" OLB able to mix things up by putting his hand on the ground sometimes. More attacking on the front with an emphasis on generating more pass rush. I think it's going to be very similar in how it looks pre-snap, though.