If I hadn’t heard that same line of bull**** from previous coaches, I might be disposed to cut him some slack there.
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2021 Offseason Thread
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hawg1
Well-Known Member
Naive and discouraging, honestly.
cu62nu36
fascist tool
To summarize after reading bits and pieces of this thread:
Melvin Tucker (nuts) used attractive young females to aid in "recruiting". Most successful and/or BIG TIME programs do the same. Refer to any program in the SEC. This was later dismantled by Rick George.
I didn't see any references wrt 'Pay to Play' employed by Tucker (nuts) or CU which might explain why his only class had a mediocre ranking in the 30's. Once again refer to the SEC/oklahoma/ohiost/clemson to see how to obtain a top 20 recruiting class..
Karl Dorrell, much like Mike MacIntyre, refuses to employ these techniques in recruiting and Rick George condones it. CU is a "clean" program. "Clean" programs are generally not very successful. I love how Ped St. fans for decades talked about their success and loved to point out how Paterno did it the "right way".
Therefore Colorado football will not perform at a top 30 level until recruiting tactics change and CU hires someone of Melvin Tucker (nuts) repute again. CU fans will need to be happy with diamonds in the rough, the occasional 4* that falls through and coaching kids up. Then every 4 years or so when things align just right we can get a sniff of the top 25. Hmmm 2016, 2020, ...
I think Dorrell is here for awhile so to all the recruiting bitches - sucks to be you but by all means keep on bitching. It may make you feel better than accepting reality.
Melvin Tucker (nuts) used attractive young females to aid in "recruiting". Most successful and/or BIG TIME programs do the same. Refer to any program in the SEC. This was later dismantled by Rick George.
I didn't see any references wrt 'Pay to Play' employed by Tucker (nuts) or CU which might explain why his only class had a mediocre ranking in the 30's. Once again refer to the SEC/oklahoma/ohiost/clemson to see how to obtain a top 20 recruiting class..
Karl Dorrell, much like Mike MacIntyre, refuses to employ these techniques in recruiting and Rick George condones it. CU is a "clean" program. "Clean" programs are generally not very successful. I love how Ped St. fans for decades talked about their success and loved to point out how Paterno did it the "right way".
Therefore Colorado football will not perform at a top 30 level until recruiting tactics change and CU hires someone of Melvin Tucker (nuts) repute again. CU fans will need to be happy with diamonds in the rough, the occasional 4* that falls through and coaching kids up. Then every 4 years or so when things align just right we can get a sniff of the top 25. Hmmm 2016, 2020, ...
I think Dorrell is here for awhile so to all the recruiting bitches - sucks to be you but by all means keep on bitching. It may make you feel better than accepting reality.
That is why I don’t pay attention to recruiting that much. Let’s see if the kid can cut it in the classroom and as a student athlete. I will believe in the players once they make plays in the games that count.
With CU, I feel that the Buffs offensive scheme will have the best player touching the football the most and that is at QB. Having a good running mate at RB is a must. As much as it sickens me to say this, we need to be more like Utah football than the west coast schools. We are a decade into the P12 and we are not going to get those big time QBs who will end up as future first round QBs. We are in a better spot than when we entered the conference so keep that in mind.
Im also curious to see how the Buffs handle a tougher schedule in the coming years. That could turn out to be a good thing for the Buffs.
With CU, I feel that the Buffs offensive scheme will have the best player touching the football the most and that is at QB. Having a good running mate at RB is a must. As much as it sickens me to say this, we need to be more like Utah football than the west coast schools. We are a decade into the P12 and we are not going to get those big time QBs who will end up as future first round QBs. We are in a better spot than when we entered the conference so keep that in mind.
Im also curious to see how the Buffs handle a tougher schedule in the coming years. That could turn out to be a good thing for the Buffs.
Fair assessment. I have accepted the admin. has no interest in fielding a team that is competitive with the top tier of the conference. RG has been neutered, or he has that old time mediocrity religion now. As a fan, and I suspect I will always be one, is to act accordingly with my time, money and personal investment. TV games for me from here on out, unless there is something more interesting to do.
Joe Theismann's Leg
Well-Known Member
Not going to games/buying merch only perpetuates the cycle of mediocrity.
Ehh. If RG was neutered he wouldn’t have allowed the firing of two coaches with buyouts left.
I feel like that was a big show of support to Dorrell.
Did you miss Tucker’s recruiting staff?
The harsh truth
bigbang2
blindslighted
There are programs that have won clean. I think CU will be okay if we don't go over to the dark side. The goal should be to develop student athletes. I am okay with being a program like Notre dame or Stanford or Northwestern or Boise State or Utah or Navy or Airforce and etc. Winning a championship will be a bonus. RG should have stopped Mel Tucker from using attractive students to recruit players. I am glad he has now stopped the practice.
SINKRATZ
PhD in Analogy
There’s outright dirty and there’s walking the line. We don’t need to be a dirty program but if we think having a few pretty girls in the recruiting department is over the line you have CU football circa 2006-2020.
I stand by my statement.
SINKRATZ
PhD in Analogy
That’s great. We’ve tried that approach for 15 years (minus 2019) and the results pretty much speak for themselves.
I am saying the vast majority of P5 recruiting operations look pretty similar. It does not explain the current struggles.
SINKRATZ
PhD in Analogy
Look pretty similar to CU? I have a hard time believing that. Does ASU run a squeaky clean recruiting department? How about USC or UCLA or Oregon? Because we should be competing with those programs and right now we are not.
The flatirons apparently aren’t charming enough to land the recruits we want.
USC and Oregon? No. Those two schools are competing for top ten classes. It seems a bit delusional to think CU "should" be at that level anyway.
Most of the other Pac-12 schools? I really doubt you would see much of a difference. CU needs to pay more for assistants to really close the gap in recruiting.
There are a lot of different approaches to recruiting that are working at least acceptably well at different schools.
Using pretty girls is common but not universal as is lying through your teeth promising playing time and other things you can't deliver.
It is clear that the school isn't going to accept the football program pushing the line in the way that some of our competitors do nor are they going to compromise certain standards in terms of the players that are brought in and kept.
That means that we aren't going to be Baylor, Penn State, or any of a number of other schools out there.
The fact is though that there are plenty of schools who don't go far beyond the CU standards and are at least reasonably successful without cheating, without selling out, without going win at all cost.
Unfortunately that takes a staff that is committed to winning on the recruiting trail, that makes recruiting quality players a top priority and acts on it.
Tucker and some of his staff had that mentality, What have we seen from the KD staff that says they believe and act the same?
Staffs that recruit well live and breath it. They are on airplanes, on social media, on the phone, visiting high schools. Dead period, no problem, we won't see recruits face to face but that doesn't mean we can be out working high school coaches.
It has taken a while to get them where they are but what does Iowa State have to offer that CU doesn't or couldn't, how about Iowa? Why should we be losing recruits to Cal or Arizona State or schools in Texas not called UT or aTm?
There is a route for CU to regain respectability. That route though requires a staff that lives and breathes recruiting. Do they have to be great position coaches? That would be nice but no. We might even lose a game or two a year by being outcoached. Much better than getting run over 5-6 times a year by teams with a big enough talent advantage that the coaching doesn't matter in the end.
I am frustrated and agree with @leftybuff , I will always love CU football but my why should I remain dedicated when they aren't. I'll enjoy it but I'm not going to worry about it as much.
No, when the money keeps flowing in regardless of the product on the field it tells them that the product doesn't matter and they can continue put garbage out there.
The money from ticket sales, merchandise, athletic donations, etc. is something they budget for and expect to have to use. When it doesn't come in as expected it at least makes them ask the question why, and hopefully they will realize that the fans aren't going to keep buying a bad product.
True, if one assumes the admin. was interested in top shelf competitiveness. CU does not suffer from lack of support or resources. IMO, it is a lack of institutional will.
The facilities are in the upper half of the conference, CU and Utah are neck and neck on budget revenue and fan attendance, but Utah kicks CU's butt regularly. CU is 2-8 versus Utah since they joined the P12.
Overall? Glad you asked. CU is 20-61 (.247) since joining the Pac. Dead last. Oregon State wins more Pac 12 games 27-63 (.300). Why? Lack of institutional commitment. Utah is 42-39 (.519) btw.
CU is middle of the Pac in revenue and attendance, but last in competitiveness.
You can see it, or you can fool yourself...the choice is yours.
Ok but which P5 programs that aren’t that different from CU in this context are consistently competing for conference championships?
Shhh. You can't say that. The only proper response is - CU is the Harvard of the west. Buffs don't win because their academics are sooooo outstanding.
CU FB is the font of more excuses than Bill Clinton's bodyguards.
SINKRATZ
PhD in Analogy
Agree on assistant pay, but I don’t think that’s mutually exclusive from other recruiting department strategies that we want to believe we are better than.
Because we’ve had such great luck with our few high-star recruits.
I think the point he is making should be encouraging: they are taking recruiting incredibly seriously, putting in a bunch of extra work on each player they think can specifically help this program. Hasn’t the main complaint by so many on here that we have needed to take recruiting seriously going forward? Well... he gets it.
I also loved the comment that, essentially, he isn’t sure if the prior coaches had fully vetted the players they brought in. I love that shade.
I am majorly gratified by KD’s dissatisfaction with where we are. No blowing smoke about CU’s first winning season in a decade, even in weird circumstances. He was clearly embarrassed by the showing at the Alamo, and he is taking serious steps, including firing coaches, to move the program forward.
Isn’t this exactly what we hoped a coach would do?
I think recruiting operations need to be overhauled as well.
My overall point: people have taken the vague insinuations surrounding Mel Tucker and female recruiting assistants and turned it into this idea that now CU wants to be especially squeaky clean. In reality, the actual substance is probably somewhere in the middle.
More money for assistants, more quality control coaches, a younger director of player personnel/recruiting coordinator. These are tangible moves that need to be made.
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I think the Mangan transfer was destined. He has been recruited over, and we have solid players ahead of him, with Fontenot coming back, too, and a potential star.
I liked Rackstraw, and I think he played hard. But he should be a depth player not a starting safety. When we finally get to see Oliver standing 10 yards off the line, and Perry deep, we will start to see what a shut down defense should look like. (Yes. I think Perry moves back from Star when Oliver’s understanding of our system catches up with his insane physicality.)
Define consistent. If you want a legitimate annual conference championship contender, we are miles away in resources.