2021 Offseason Thread

[Joe Theismann's Leg]

I agree with this but it doesn't mean HCMM wasn't a goober. KD has an air of calm and confidence about him on and off the sideline that should sell well in the living room.

Fair enough.

But why is KD seen as a mediocre recruiter then? Not that MacIntyre wasn't also fairly mediocre but why is KD not a good recruiter? His classes at UCLA kinda sucked... and it seems like they have a lot of built in advantages over CU.

 

[married2abuff]

Fair enough.

But why is KD seen as a mediocre recruiter then? Not that MacIntyre wasn't also fairly mediocre but why is KD not a good recruiter? His classes at UCLA kinda sucked... and it seems like they have a lot of built in advantages over CU.

Yeah, that's a good point. For me it's about perspective. We saw a level of competency in recruiting with the previous coach. That raised the bar from what we had previously seen. Now it seems we've regressed. It's just like KD surpassed my expectations from a coaching perspective this year. That resets the bar and I expect that or better going forward now. He needs to recruit better and he's suggested such in recent comments. To me that implies he knows that's a problem and he'll need to make adjustments to improve in that regard. Perhaps that's better infrastructure as we saw 2 years ago, or better coaches or both. But I don't expect him to stay status quo. If he does, he won't survive in the long run.

 

[GuySmiley]

I think its going to take a bit of time to see an uptick in recruiting. 3 coaches in 3 years, only our 2nd winning season in 15 or so. We need to show some stability. I think KD will show that stability, win some games and the players will come. Midnight Mel was a good hire and talked a good game. He got that uptick quickly. However, he showed what he was made of. KD needs to sell stability, and early playing time for freshman.

Agree totally on this. If next year is a consecutive winning season + bowl would be an awesome boost. A few of the reasons, I feel pretty optimistic about CU and this particular staff:

1. Although it was a shortened season, it looked like the players were truly having fun and really into the team; their teammates;
2. Unlike other years, I felt for 2-4 weeks this season, CU got the spotlight shined with some media exposure for players or the team in general. Having Broussard or Landman featured on CF Live is good. SN has a feel good story. Landman is real easy to like.
3. CU broke out many new young players for other young players to take notice;
4. CU turned the career of some of the older players around: Isaiah Lewis PAC-12 HM, Sam Noyer, Broussard
5. Playing Christian Gonzales and him playing quite well, will show a recruit if you are young, but deemed ready to start, you will play. Although CU's secondary was thin, CG still beat out decent guys.
6. The offensive and defensive schemes/systems look fun to play in from a player perspective, especially the defense;
7. I think the players a going a great job competing against each other and improving.
8. I sort of read into the AC/Keith Miller situation a bit differently-- I feel that they are ultra-competitive especially with the peers in their recruiting class, some of which had nice season; thus they really want to play and have said that. Although time will tell, if the ultra-competitiveness is really with their peers; then the loyalty to the team is in tact.

Lastly, for the AC's, we ding them for the recruiting class, but on the field each sort of had a break out:
1. DC-- year 2 in Summer's Defense looked pretty good, if not great at times when Landman was playing. I think this year you a can tell Summer is more adapt at implementing changes as the games goes along. Even without Landman, CU had 4 straight stops against UT to make it close to halftime.
2. S-- once forgotton Isaiah Lewis had a great year.
3. C-- Gonzales was awesome; Bethal had flashes; Blackmon and Miller (when healthy) made plays.
4. OLB--Wells was great; CU may need another OLB; but as a group they were a plus.
5. ILB--Jones and Landman were the nations best pair. We know what happened when Landman went out. Shout out to all Blue Chip LBs and Transfers: CU is a great place to play; come to CU!!
6. DLine--They played pretty well. CU racked up a number of sacks, pretty good on 3rd down. Early in the season, they made some red-zone stops.
7. OC--Year 3 in Chevs offense did show progression, although there are always play calls and personal decisions that will the criticized.
8. OLine--Rodrique did more with what he had, than anyone expected.
9. WR's--Stanley, LaVonte, Rice all had memorable seasons.
10. RB-- produced the PAC-12 Offensive Player of the Year.
11. TE--sorry Taylor, but the injury bug and lack of talent killed everything this year: this will be an opportunity to mold 3 green recruits with no-college playing time hopefully into something special.

 

[Not Sure]

Seemingly had pretty good running backs.

Hagan has been the RB coach since 2004
since then I'd say it has been less than mediocre overall. He had Lindsay who was a CU kid all the way, not giving Hagan much credit for that one. Other than that Rodney Stewart had one season over 1000 yards and T. McMillian had a season barely over 1000.

Leading rushers by season (I didn't find a ready made chart with ypc but trust me it is just as unimpressive)
2005 H. Charles 842
2006 H. Charles 779
2007 H. Charles 989
2008 R. Stewart 622
2009 R. Stewart 804
2010 R. Stewart 1318
2011 R. Stewart 854
2012 C Powell 691
2013 C Powell 562 (Adkins this season also had over 500)
2014 C Powell 448
2015 P. Lindsay 653
2016 P. Lindsay 1189
2017 P. Lindsay 1479
2018 T. McMillion 1009
2019 A Fontenot 874

I'm failing to see anything there that says that a guy who doesn't particularly excel as a recruiter deserves to have a job for life and is beyond questioning in his coaching.

Those guys all look somewhere between “pretty good” and “great” to me. Obviously some are better than others, but my point stands.

 

[Duff Man]

Agree totally on this. If next year is a consecutive winning season + bowl would be an awesome boost. A few of the reasons, I feel pretty optimistic about CU and this particular staff:

1. Although it was a shortened season, it looked like the players were truly having fun and really into the team; their teammates;
2. Unlike other years, I felt for 2-4 weeks this season, CU got the spotlight shined with some media exposure for players or the team in general. Having Broussard or Landman featured on CF Live is good. SN has a feel good story. Landman is real easy to like.
3. CU broke out many new young players for other young players to take notice;
4. CU turned the career of some of the older players around: Isaiah Lewis PAC-12 HM, Sam Noyer, Broussard
5. Playing Christian Gonzales and him playing quite well, will show a recruit if you are young, but deemed ready to start, you will play. Although CU's secondary was thin, CG still beat out decent guys.
6. The offensive and defensive schemes/systems look fun to play in from a player perspective, especially the defense;
7. I think the players a going a great job competing against each other and improving.
8. I sort of read into the AC/Keith Miller situation a bit differently-- I feel that they are ultra-competitive especially with the peers in their recruiting class, some of which had nice season; thus they really want to play and have said that. Although time will tell, if the ultra-competitiveness is really with their peers; then the loyalty to the team is in tact.

Lastly, for the AC's, we ding them for the recruiting class, but on the field each sort of had a break out:
1. DC-- year 2 in Summer's Defense looked pretty good, if not great at times when Landman was playing. I think this year you a can tell Summer is more adapt at implementing changes as the games goes along. Even without Landman, CU had 4 straight stops against UT to make it close to halftime.
2. S-- once forgotton Isaiah Lewis had a great year.
3. C-- Gonzales was awesome; Bethal had flashes; Blackmon and Miller (when healthy) made plays.
4. OLB--Wells was great; CU may need another OLB; but as a group they were a plus.
5. ILB--Jones and Landman were the nations best pair. We know what happened when Landman went out. Shout out to all Blue Chip LBs and Transfers: CU is a great place to play; come to CU!!
6. DLine--They played pretty well. CU racked up a number of sacks, pretty good on 3rd down. Early in the season, they made some red-zone stops.
7. OC--Year 3 in Chevs offense did show progression, although there are always play calls and personal decisions that will the criticized.
8. OLine--Rodrique did more with what he had, than anyone expected.
9. WR's--Stanley, LaVonte, Rice all had memorable seasons.
10. RB-- produced the PAC-12 Offensive Player of the Year.
11. TE--sorry Taylor, but the injury bug and lack of talent killed everything this year: this will be an opportunity to mold 3 green recruits with no-college playing time hopefully into something special.

You are going a bit overboard here with the superlatives. We had various players and position groups have good seasons, but weaknesses are still apparent and depth is rough.

 

[GuySmiley]

Herm also has ASU modeling their recruiting after an NFL personnel department with tons of resources being thrown at it. Who knows if they are crossing lines, but you know they’re spending money.

That’s the part I don’t get about the alleged CU situation. Tucker’s recruiting operation started crossing the line, so instead of dialing that behavior back but maintaining a similar level of emphasis and resources, RG seemed to dismantle it all.

Schek: you seem to have more inside information on this. Certainly, I think Tucker meeting a line is part of it. The problem was compounded by the people Tucker took with him, and then perhaps some COVID issues, where the AD faced a hiring freeze and budget cuts. If there were something questionable in folks remaining under Tucker, given the circumstances a good way to reshuffle, could be to downsize (budget cuts) and then up-size again. We all agree the recruiting department must have the resources to be an excellent department, probably more so than other schools. It will be interesting to see how fast RG/LC/KD can claw back lost funds to expand the department.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

Schek: you seem to have more inside information on this. Certainly, I think Tucker meeting a line is part of it. The problem was compounded by the people Tucker took with him, and then perhaps some COVID issues, where the AD faced a hiring freeze and budget cuts. If there were something questionable in folks remaining under Tucker, given the circumstances a good way to reshuffle, could be to downsize (budget cuts) and then up-size again. We all agree the recruiting department must have the resources to be an excellent department, probably more so than other schools. It will be interesting to see how fast RG/LC/KD can claw back lost funds to expand the department.

To be clear, I have no inside info on this other than rumors that have been floated around here this year.

 

[Not Sure]

You’re overstating a bit

Perhaps, yes. But of all the position groups in this team, RB has to be in the top quartile. They produce and are largely reliable. I think it’s reasonable to ask why Clayton didn’t get more carries this year and why Joe Davis got more than he probably deserved. However, I think it’s also appropriate to give credit where it’s due. It’s hypocritical to criticize Hagan for one thing and discount his other contributions as insignificant or largely the work of others.

 

[GuySmiley]

To be clear, I have no inside info on this other than rumors that have been floated around here this year.

I don't have direct inside knowledge, but from the folks usually in the know, it is the general theme. Also, I have heard it became sort of turf war between Smell and RG/LC, as to who actually controlled the recruiting infrastructure, and its oversight. From a business planning perspective, when faced with something like CoVid, sometimes budget cuts/downsizing and then re-upsize can be a decent bussiness strategy. People are let go/"laid off", but not necessarily fired. A temp manager or workers can come in for a people for a time to rite the ship, then leave when the long-term person/team is available. I sort of see Bob Lopez as a temp sort of guy. I could be wrong.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

Perhaps, yes. But of all the position groups in this team, RB has to be in the top quartile. They produce and are largely reliable. I think it’s reasonable to ask why Clayton didn’t get more carries this year and why Joe Davis got more than he probably deserved. However, I think it’s also appropriate to give credit where it’s due. It’s hypocritical to criticize Hagan for one thing and discount his other contributions as insignificant or largely the work of others.

We praise him for these unheralded RBs producing solid seasons here and there, but how much better and more impactful could our running game actually have been if he was recruiting and playing Clayton-level recruits regularly instead of Joe Davis or Alex Fontenot level guys? Someone has to get the carries and yards in the offense, but how much better would this program have been in prior years if they had a more dynamic RB depth chart than what we've seen?

Again, he and his position group are not the problem by any stretch, but he/they aren't really doing anything outstanding either.

 

[Not Sure]

We praise him for these unheralded RBs producing solid seasons here and there, but how much better and more impactful could our running game actually have been if he was recruiting and playing Clayton-level recruits regularly instead of Joe Davis or Alex Fontenot level guys? Someone has to get the carries and yards in the offense, but how much better would this program have been in prior years if they had a more dynamic RB depth chart than what we've seen?

Again, he and his position group are not the problem by any stretch, but he/they aren't really doing anything outstanding either.

The PAC 12 co-offensive player of the year is in that position group. That’s not outstanding? I guess we have a different definition of that word.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

The PAC 12 co-offensive player of the year is in that position group. That’s not outstanding? I guess we have a different definition of that word.

I have already stated that Lindsay and Broussard have been exceptions to otherwise mediocre production/recruiting results by him and that group. Your post is no different than the people justifying poor recruiting around here simply because there have been some really good diamond in the rough type players over the years. Both are exceptions, not the rule.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

Those guys all look somewhere between “pretty good” and “great” to me. Obviously some are better than others, but my point stands.

You need to take a look around college football and see what dynamic RBs look like, if you think that entire list is anything more than mediocre or below average. "Pretty good" to "great", yet exactly zero RB draft picks among that group.

 

[BuffTuff]

Just took a look at 247 transfer portal for the 1st time. Holy smokes there are a lot of players on there.
Am I wrong/hopeful to think this is the 1 year where we can plug a few holes that crappy years of recruiting has left us with the roster limits probably being softer?

my wish list priority (prob not realistic)
2 ILB
1 S
1-2 TE
1 OLB
1-2 OT or OG

 

[SINKRATZ]

You need to take a look around college football and see what dynamic RBs look like, if you think that entire list is anything more than mediocre or below average. "Pretty good" to "great", yet exactly zero RB draft picks among that group.

All I known is I’d trade our entire RB room for that Bijan Robinson kid who ran all over us on Tuesday. He’s “pretty good to great”.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

All I known is I’d trade our entire RB room for that Bijan Robinson kid who ran all over us on Tuesday. He’s “pretty good to great”.

Correct. I don't know how CU fans can watch him, McCaffrey, Miles Gaskin, Felton, Ronald Jones, Eno Benjamin, Ballage, etc. and claim that Christian Powell, Michael Adkins, Travon McMillan and Rodney Stewart (sans one great season) were pretty good to great.

Edit: Removed Max Boghi because @manhattanbuff can't focus

 

[Duff Man]

Why is Darian Hagan accountable for recruits when he was not the RB coach?

 

[manhattanbuff]

Why is Darian Hagan accountable for recruits when he was not the RB coach?

Wasn’t he the recruiting coordinator?

 

[Not Sure]

Correct. I don't know how CU fans can watch him, McCaffrey, Miles Gaskin, Max Borghi, Felton, Ronald Jones, Eno Benjamin, Ballage, etc. and claim that Christian Powell, Michael Adkins, Travon McMillan and Rodney Stewart (sans one great season) were pretty good to great.

We are talking semantics at this point. I’d say most of those guys were pretty good. Lindsay and Broussard are great.

 

[manhattanbuff]

Correct. I don't know how CU fans can watch him, McCaffrey, Miles Gaskin, Max Borghi, Felton, Ronald Jones, Eno Benjamin, Ballage, etc. and claim that Christian Powell, Michael Adkins, Travon McMillan and Rodney Stewart (sans one great season) were pretty good to great.

How in the world does Borghi belong in the first group?

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

Why is Darian Hagan accountable for recruits when he was not the RB coach?

RB coach from 2006-2010 and then 2016-Present. So Charles, Stewart, Lindsay, McMillan, Fontenot and Broussard as RB1 under him. Does that really change the point that much? It's also not just about Hagan, but about the entire RB position in general at CU and Not Sure's assertion that the last 15 years look pretty good to great.

Also, you yourself have been pretty critical of Hagan in the past. I get there are more pressing concerns but that doesn't mean he gets a pass. Very average position for this program.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

We are talking semantics at this point. I’d say most of those guys were pretty good. Lindsay and Broussard are great.

Holy ****, talk about black and gold colored glasses.

How in the world does Borghi belong in the first group?

Top 2-3 RB in the Pac 12. He'll be a draft pick assuming he comes back next year is plays like he has every season to this point.

 

[Duff Man]

Wasn’t he the recruiting coordinator?

In name. Embree and MM also treated that position a bit differently.

RB coach from 2006-2010 and then 2016-Present. So Charles, Stewart, Lindsay, McMillan, Fontenot and Broussard as RB1 under him. Does that really change the point that much? It's also not just about Hagan, but about the entire RB position in general at CU and Not Sure's assertion that the last 15 years look pretty good to great.

Also, you yourself have been pretty critical of Hagan in the past. I get there are more pressing concerns but that doesn't mean he gets a pass. Very average position for this program.

Absorbing the loss of Fontenot and having Broussard end up OPOY earns some slack.

 

[bigbang2]

We had scandals at CU that deterred recruits. It was difficult for Junior College athletes to gain admission for a while until the rules were relaxed recently. Poor performance on the field. Poor facilities. CU couldn't compete for the best recruits for a while. Can't really place the blame on one person or a group of people. It will take time to rebuild the program. But we now have a good foundation to build upon. The recruiting has gotten better. Mel Tucker was a douche, but he did a relatively good job recruiting. Karl Dorrell got to build on that. Got to really work on the transfer portal.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

In name. Embree and MM also treated that position a bit differently.



Absorbing the loss of Fontenot and having Broussard end up OPOY earns some slack.

I agree and have stated multiple times that Broussard has been great and looks to be an exception, but this is like saying you can't criticize Chev's recruiting this cycle and beyond because he got Viska and Rice in the past.

 

[manhattanbuff]

Holy ****, talk about black and gold colored glasses.

Top 2-3 RB in the Pac 12. He'll be a draft pick assuming he comes back next year is plays like he has every season to this point.

I mean, he may be a late round draft pick, but his non air raid numbers don’t put him in the category of the other guys who have proven they can run the ball at the NFL level. Maybe he’ll become a slot receiver.

 

[Duff Man]

I agree and have stated multiple times that Broussard has been great and looks to be an exception, but this is like saying you can't criticize Chev's recruiting this cycle and beyond because he got Viska and Rice in the past.

More like saying I do not think Chev should be fired right now at the moment, even with some recruiting struggles.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

I mean, he may be a late round draft pick, but his non air raid numbers don’t put him in the category of the other guys who have proven they can run the ball at the NFL level. Maybe he’ll become a slot receiver.

I mean, he hasn't played this year due to injury, so i'm confused about the "non air raid numbers" comment. Regardless, he's still one of the most dynamic players in the conference and actually has a modern NFL RB skill set that teams will covet. PFF has him as a top 10 RB for the 2021 draft just ahead of Felton and other sites I've seen have him projected as a rd 3-4 guy.

 

[SINKRATZ]

We are talking semantics at this point. I’d say most of those guys were pretty good. Lindsay and Broussard are great.

It’s not Broussard’s fault he has only played 6 games in his career, but as good as he played this season I have a hard time declaring any player “great” after only 6 games.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

More like saying I do not think Chev should be fired right now at the moment, even with some recruiting struggles.

I haven't said Hagan should be fired once. I just don't believe there is some track record of amazing success that should continue giving him a free pass, especially when he has a history of alienating talented players for the try hard kind of guys.

Right now, this staff has an awful recruiting coordinator, a WR coach at OC who doesn't recruit much, a QB coach who only recruits QBs, an OL coach who was coaching high school last year, a first year TE coach, and a RB coach who has been fine but not great. At least he's cheap, though!