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CU has rejoined the Big 12 and broken college football - talking out asses continues

skibum said:
I don't think you are really grasping why, and in what contexts, "median" home prices are used and considered valid measurements and comparisons.

They are really valid for evaluating single time series data and comparisons between time series data.

They are somewhat useful for "cost of living" comparisons, but even within that context, a high quality analysis will consider what you get at the "median" price.

But, the headline writer at clickbaittimes, err, USAToday, will surmise that the surface level view you are undertaking is "good enough."

But the reality is that real people, in the real world, make employment/career decisions based on what they can afford at the salary offered in an area, and the very simple fact that you are very intent on ignoring is that the same money in Boulder will buy a *much* larger/nicer home than it will in the bay area. And real people a. notice that, and b. make decisions based on that.

Good comparisons of costs of living don't look at "median" home values, they look at the median "4 bedroom, 2 bath, single family home" that people think is appropriate for a family of 4. And in that comparison, SFO is a lot more expensive than Boulder.
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I was offered a job with Facebook about 12 years ago, right before their IPO. The role would have required me to relocate the family to the Bay Area and work in their HQ. I would have been reporting to their VP of Network Engineering, and I appreciated his bluntness about the housing situation.

He told me that in order to find a comparable house to what we have in Colorado, it would cost us $1.5m and come with a 1.5 hour commute each way. That was over a decade ago. Agree the "median price" does not tell the entire story.

The salary was off the charts good, and I could have retired comfortably at 45 with amount of pre-IPO stock they bundled into the offer, but I eventually rejected the role mainly due to the housing/commute situation.
 
leftybuff said:
This is the kind of thread jacking useless argument that come to AB for....
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why must people keep arguing about the most inane stuff. Can't anyone be wrong or just accept and move on? Who cares how much a burrito costs in Northern California?
 
Another thing I think impacts what to expect is lot sizes in and out of the downtown areas. Outside downtown, CO lots were very small to me compared to what I was used to in the mid-Atlantic region (if you want 0.5-2 acres, it's a farm or horse property). But compared to AZ, CA and NV the norm is generous.
 
skibum said:
Got it. Quality and value are completely irrelevant to price.

On a completely different subject, are you looking to buy a car anytime soon? I've got one to sell at a great price.
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Sure. Let’s do this; you can buy a Mercedes in Denver for $50,000. The same Mercedes in Dubai costs $100,000.

It’s the same Mercedes. The cost is different.


Or you can buy a Mercedes in Denver for $50,000 and a Toyota in Dubai for $50,000.

Different car. Same price. The median price of a car (the cost of owning a car) in both cities might be exactly the same. What you get for that money is vastly different. That doesn’t change the fact that if you want a car in Dubai, you are paying a premium.

So, are you selling me a car in Denver or in Dubai?

(And spare me the arguments about Dubai, I used it as a means of making a point. I really have no freaking idea what it costs to buy a Mercedes there).
 
30Something said:
I was offered a job with Facebook about 12 years ago, right before their IPO. The role would have required me to relocate the family to the Bay Area and work in their HQ. I would have been reporting to their VP of Network Engineering, and I appreciated his bluntness about the housing situation.

He told me that in order to find a comparable house to what we have in Colorado, it would cost us $1.5m and come with a 1.5 hour commute each way. That was over a decade ago. Agree the "median price" does not tell the entire story.

The salary was off the charts good, and I could have retired comfortably at 45 with amount of pre-IPO stock they bundled into the offer, but I eventually rejected the role mainly due to the housing/commute situation.
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in 2007, I was comparing job offers from around the country.

the top two I was considering were Raleigh, NC and Boston, MA.

Boston's reported COL was about 15% higher than Raleigh's at the time.

Boston job was about 10% higher salary than Raleigh.

If I assumed 5% YoY salary increase with each, and considered the difference in cost of living, the Boston job won out in "total NET" over a 10 year period.

But I took the Raleigh job because I didn't want to cram my family into a 800 sqft apartment for the time while I worked my way up the corporate ladder.
 
Not Sure said:
If you want to make the argument that you can buy more house for the same cost in Boulder, that’s fine. But that’s not what we are doing. We are comparing to cost of a home ownership in one area to that in another. By that measure, the two communities are comparable. It doesn’t really matter that the $1.4MM house in SF is 1,000 sf and the $1.5MM one in Boulder is 2,000 sf. That’s what is available in those communities and that’s the cost. The cost per square foot is a great way to compare quality and value, but when you’re comparing prices, those factors are irrelevant.
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Sure it does. Because if you want/need a 2,000 sf house, you can find one in the area but it'll cost you $2m vs the median cost of $1.4m. Not comparable.
 
Not Sure said:
Sure. Let’s do this; you can buy a Mercedes in Denver for $50,000. The same Mercedes in Dubai costs $100,000.

It’s the same Mercedes. The cost is different.


Or you can buy a Mercedes in Denver for $50,000 and a Toyota in Dubai for $50,000.

Different car. Same price. The median price of a car (the cost of owning a car) in both cities might be exactly the same. What you get for that money is vastly different. That doesn’t change the fact that if you want a car in Dubai, you are paying a premium.

So, are you selling me a car in Denver or in Dubai?

(And spare me the arguments about Dubai, I used it as a means of making a point. I really have no freaking idea what it costs to buy a Mercedes there).
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I'll take this as scoop! The Dubai University Falcons are a possible expansion target for the PAC? Think of the TV revenue in a place that expensive.
 
Not Sure said:
Sure. Let’s do this; you can buy a Mercedes in Denver for $50,000. The same Mercedes in Dubai costs $100,000.

It’s the same Mercedes. The cost is different.


Or you can buy a Mercedes in Denver for $50,000 and a Toyota in Dubai for $50,000.

Different car. Same price. The median price of a car (the cost of owning a car) in both cities might be exactly the same. What you get for that money is vastly different. That doesn’t change the fact that if you want a car in Dubai, you are paying a premium.

So, are you selling me a car in Denver or in Dubai?

(And spare me the arguments about Dubai, I used it as a means of making a point. I really have no freaking idea what it costs to buy a Mercedes there).
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Fun to have someone besides Yak dying on the wrong hill for a change.
 
30Something said:
Sure it does. Because if you want/need a 2,000 sf house, you can find one in the area but it'll cost you $2m vs the median cost of $1.4m. Not comparable.
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No. Dammit. NO.

Stop trying to change this from a comparison of price to a comparison of value.

We have a very well defined and accepted form of comparing cost of home ownership across different communities. It’s the median price. It does not take into consideration price per square foot, neighborhood amenities, access to public transportation, etc. It only looks at price. The cost of home ownership in both communities is comparable. This isn’t a matter of debate, although it would appear that there are some who want to debate the relative merits of living in one place or the other. When all you look at is the cost in one community compared to the cost in another one, they are comparable.
 
Not Sure said:
No. Dammit. NO.

Stop trying to change this from a comparison of price to a comparison of value.

We have a very well defined and accepted form of comparing cost of home ownership across different communities. It’s the median price. It does not take into consideration price per square foot, neighborhood amenities, access to public transportation, etc. It only looks at price. The cost of home ownership in both communities is comparable. This isn’t a matter of debate, although it would appear that there are some who want to debate the relative merits of living in one place or the other. When all you look at is the cost in one community compared to the cost in another one, they are comparable.
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What about the weather, though?
 
Over It Abandon Thread GIF
 
Not Sure said:
No. Dammit. NO.

Stop trying to change this from a comparison of price to a comparison of value.

We have a very well defined and accepted form of comparing cost of home ownership across different communities. It’s the median price. It does not take into consideration price per square foot, neighborhood amenities, access to public transportation, etc. It only looks at price. The cost of home ownership in both communities is comparable. This isn’t a matter of debate, although it would appear that there are some who want to debate the relative merits of living in one place or the other. When all you look at is the cost in one community compared to the cost in another one, they are comparable.
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Who is “we”. You seem to going solo with this opinion.
 
Not Sure said:
If you want to make the argument that you can buy more house for the same cost in Boulder, that’s fine. But that’s not what we are doing. We are comparing to cost of a home ownership in one area to that in another. By that measure, the two communities are comparable. It doesn’t really matter that the $1.4MM house in SF is 1,000 sf and the $1.5MM one in Boulder is 2,000 sf. That’s what is available in those communities and that’s the cost. The cost per square foot is a great way to compare quality and value, but when you’re comparing prices, those factors are irrelevant.
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Not sure (ba dum tis) why you're sticking your head in the sand here. Price only matters in the context of what's being bought. A family that needs a 3 bedroom home needs a 3 bedroom home no matter what community they're in. People don't ask "what's the cost of owning a home," they ask "what's the cost of owning a home that meets my family's needs."
 
Not Sure said:
According to Realtor.com, the median home price in Boulder is $1.5MM. The median home price in San Francisco is $1.4MM.

So, yeah. Comparable.
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If you want to lump in, oh maybe Arvada and Westminster then it would be about as accurate as lumping the east bay with sf.

Not even close to comparable.

Comparing high end neighborhoods Boulder is a bargain by an an order of magnitude compared to sf and Palo Alto and atherton and orinda and so forth.

You are operating under a very provincial misapprehension and it is about as useful as suggesting Manhattan and the Bronx should be lumped together to create a median value.

Ridiculous.
 
Buffnik said:
Another thing I think impacts what to expect is lot sizes in and out of the downtown areas. Outside downtown, CO lots were very small to me compared to what I was used to in the mid-Atlantic region (if you want 0.5-2 acres, it's a farm or horse property). But compared to AZ, CA and NV the norm is generous.
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Just wait. With the growth of institutional investing in SFR, the amount of master planned communities in CO will only continue to grow (exponentially).
 
Liver said:
If you want to lump in, oh maybe Arvada and Westminster then it would be about as accurate as lumping the east bay with sf.

Not even close to comparable.

Comparing high end neighborhoods Boulder is a bargain by an an order of magnitude compared to sf and Palo Alto and atherton and orinda and so forth.

You are operating under a very provincial misapprehension and it is about as useful as suggesting Manhattan and the Bronx should be lumped together to create a median value.

Ridiculous.
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This. The metrics are meaningless when you’re comparing apples and oranges.
 
We seem to have forgotten the opportunity cost piece. We need to perform a rental market analysis and discount cash flows as well to determine whether buying to live or lease makes sense in those markets. Not to mention the variance assumptions which are notably missing from the thread
 
Liver said:
If you want to lump in, oh maybe Arvada and Westminster then it would be about as accurate as lumping the east bay with sf.

Not even close to comparable.

Comparing high end neighborhoods Boulder is a bargain by an an order of magnitude compared to sf and Palo Alto and atherton and orinda and so forth.

You are operating under a very provincial misapprehension and it is about as useful as suggesting Manhattan and the Bronx should be lumped together to create a median value.

Ridiculous.
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Jesus ****ing Christ. It’s a measure of comparison. If we want to dive into the rabbit hole of east bay, Palo Alto, Boulder, Westminster, Bronx, Manhattan, ****ing East bubblefuk Jersey, however many variables you like, that’s a completely separate discussion. If you want to know how much it costs to own a home in San Francisco compared to how much it costs to own a home in Boulder, median home price is the standard of measurement.

I honestly think you guys are just messing with me now. I hate you all.
 
and while i am at it, allow me to share a real life anecdote... a friend of mine got a job offer in LA that paid a lot more than in her then current midwest job. she asked me about real estate near my beach place. she lived in the best neighborhood in the best part of minneapolis. she "had" to have at least 3 beds and 2 baths. she ended up in lomita which is about as comparable to manhattan beach as compton is to park avenue.

so, shut it.
 
Can anybody whip up a model taking services and consumer goods into account as well? That’s a dimension of COL we’re sorely missing which could be intriguing
 
Not Sure said:
Jesus ****ing Christ. It’s a measure of comparison. If we want to dive into the rabbit hole of east bay, Palo Alto, Boulder, Westminster, Bronx, Manhattan, ****ing East bubblefuk Jersey, however many variables you like, that’s a completely separate discussion. If you want to know how much it costs to own a home in San Francisco compared to how much it costs to own a home in Boulder, median home price is the standard of measurement.

I honestly think you guys are just messing with me now. I hate you all.
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extremely wrong. if you sold your house in boulder, you and family are very unlikely to find ANYTHING you would live in in a COMPARABLE neighborhood in the sf area. full.stop.

you are blathering now, but i am here for it, as we wait to find out how ****ed we are on conferences.
 
Liver said:
extremely wrong. if you sold your house in boulder, you and family are very unlikely to find ANYTHING you would live in in a COMPARABLE neighborhood in the sf area. full.stop.

you are blathering now, but i am here for it, as we wait to find out how ****ed we are on conferences.
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We aren’t talking about finding something comparable.

Is this thing on?
 
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