in 1991:
- PSU, FSU, Louisville and South Carolina were all independent
- the Big East and SWC were actual football conferences
- CU was in the Big VIII without any conference opponents in FL, TX or CA
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CU has rejoined the Big 12 and broken college football - talking out asses continues
- Thread starter InTheBuff
- Start date
Maybe James can donate some of his (guaranteed) $7.5 million/year base salary to fund the runway expansion considering that adding the west coast teams is a large part of why Penn State can afford to pay him $7.5 million/year to coach a game and his top players now make more per year than probably 90 percent of the people in State College (median household income under $50K) on top of a full ride scholarship.
Cry me a ****ing river, James.
I’d be happy if they put it all back to 2014. #TeamPAC12
I'd actually go back to 1990, with a few tweaks. But here are what the major conferences were:
ACC
Clemson, Duke, GA Tech, Maryland, NC, NC State, Virginia, Wake Forest
Big 8
Colorado, Iowa State, Kansas, K State, Mizzou, Nebraska, Oklahoma, OK State
Big Ten
Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, Northwestern, Ohio State, Purdue, Wisconsin
Pac-10
Arizona, ASU, Cal, Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, UCLA, USC, Washington, WSU
SEC
Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, LSU, Miss, Miss State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
SWC
Arkansas, Baylor, Houston, Rice, SMU, Texas, Texas A&M, TCU, Texas Tech
Top Independents (could be a conference)
Boston College, BYU, Cincinnati, Florida State, Louisville, Memphis, Miami, Notre Dame, Penn State, Pitt, Rutgers, South Carolina, Syracuse, Utah, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
Let's say we wanted 7 conferences of 10 teams each. It wouldn't take much movement to make it happen, which is probably the proposed plan. Things like maybe adding BYU/Utah to the Big 8 to make it 10 teams and some other tweaks until you get down to 10 teams for a "Big East" football conference.
A few wealthy contributors could take care of that problem annually.
Also CSU earned almost $4.4M more in student fees than CU did in their most recent reports. Even UNC in Greeley has CU beat by about $500K despite having about 1/3 the size of student body that CU has. Wyoming made the same as CU despite having similar student body size to UNC.
Central Florida students paid about $23M in student fees and having a large student body helped in that case.
Given that you mentioned the MAC:
Buffalo: $10M
WMU: $0
CMU: $0
Miami OH: $17M
Toldeo: $9.4M
EMU: $0
Akron: $0
Ohio: $0
Ball State: $12.45M
Kent State: $11.5M
Bowling Green: $13.3M
NIU: $6.8M
UMass: $10.6M
And this is going to blow some minds: NIU, who beat Norte Dame, had a $24M athletics budget in 2022 and believe it or not, UNC earned a little more (about $22M) than NIU that same year but had a smaller $18M athletics budget. If UNC was to move to FBS, they would need a little under $1M to fund 22 scholarships (based on out of state tuition) and they will need to just add another sport which likely would be beach volleyball to get to the FBS mandated 16 sports.
That is why I said there isn't much difference between FCS & G5 football. And the fear that this new college football model is going to wreck FCS & G5 schools is probably way overblown.
You could make the argument that the sleazy boosters in the SWC made all this happen. They chased Arkansas to the SEC, which destabilized the SWC enough to where UT and A&M bolted and took TTU and ****bailer with them, and away we went.
Fify - I'm fine blaming uterus, aggie, and **** baylor for everything that's wrong with college football.
I don't know how you get any of the teams without a permanent revenue tier to agree to that. You're telling me Oklahoma and Auburn are going to be ok with the potential of relegation while Texas and Alabama could theoretically have 10 straight losing seasons and still be making more?
That was the biggest one. Number two would have been things falling apart on the plan for PSU & Miami to lead an Eastern Conference, causing the B1G expansion and a hot mess of a Big East that gave equal power to non-football schools.
I grew up there and it drives me crazy that we didn't get PSU, Cuse, BC, Pitt, WVU, Rutgers, VA Tech, Miami, Cincinnati and Louisville back then.
Hopefully the final configuration gives us something like that (maybe swap Miami for Notre Dame and keep Miami grouped with the ACC along with Florida State).
If they get the top 8 to agree, the others have no choice, tbh.
How do you figure? If the top 8 agree but no one else does, are the top 8 going to go split off and have their own little 8 team pow wow every year? It would require buy in from a majority of the proposed schools.
Oh the other 54 teams in tier 2 and tier 3 all want this and would agree on it tomorrow, make no mistake. The only real thing standing in the way are the B1G and SEC commissioners and the “top 8” programs. If those 10 entities are on board, the next 8 from tier 1 will have no choice.
The hyper elites draw a ton of water, but there's leverage outside of them. However, at the end of the day I think everyone invited says "yes" if the proposal is:
1. $125M per year in media revenue.
2. Emphasis on playing rivalry games.
3. Geographic groupings.
4. Maintaining conference affiliation.
5. Enhanced revenue based on performance (making conf & national playoffs).
As long as relegation wouldn't mean dropping out of the 70 but only a drop in revenue tier, it's hard to die on that hill even if there was a selection of superpowers that aren't subject to relegation. I also don't think they would die on the hill of not having any more games played against teams that aren't in the 70 (CU's not going to turn this down to protect its CSU rivalry, for example).
Perhaps the lawyers could comment.
I would be inclined to agree with this. Those that are left out could probably sue the two largest conferences TV partners for attempting to rig the marketplace against their better interests. I suppose other TV networks could also sue for being shut out depending on wether the conferences favor their current partners over and outsider.
There will be lawsuits. But winning is questionable and the result of a win would be financial damages, with things still going forward. Maybe some schools get a nice check while still being left out.
Fify. **** all those arrogant ****s.
Did the Bell system win in 1982? No. And a judge ordered the break up. Thats precisely what needs to happen forcing schools back to the regions they belong in. These mega conferences are incredibly bad in the long run for a majority of institutions, for players, for the game, and for the sports outside of football. They are bad for everyone except the TV people who get to create these matchups and the fewer and fewer schools in The Club.
Twenty years after theyre done creating the P2 the public will give NO ****s about the left out schools and after the newness wears off probably a few ****s about a few of the games that are in the P2. Once they can only get the ratings with SOME of the schools in the P2 the TV people will work to create a P1.
At which point the NFL likely starts a few minor leagues and takes the best players right out of high school because they cant afford the talent drain.
Ill grudgingly admit that in the post progerssive era of the courts the break up part is less likely. But this era will also pass and if it becomes as skewed as Alabama wants to be eventually a break up will happen.
I don't think we're talking about a P2 right now. It's more about realignment so that there are optimized power conferences separating into an umbrella media deal & post-season structure which would result in them only playing one another.
Good football is not limited to FBS football and whoever gets left behind will still be able to provide good entertainment.
Every time there was a shakeup like this in college sports, I wasn't happy about that but this time around, I'm looking forward to the basketball product since there will be fewer round robin games which would give more meaning to those conference games and you could think that the same would be said about the other sports out there.
There is definitely good, competitive, creative and well coached football at all levels. I don't generally find it compelling, though, compared to the P4 level of FBS except in a limited dose. Something about crowd energy & size, pageantry and, of course, hype of marketing telling me it's THE EVENT which I'm certainly not immune to.
Mick Ronson
Well-Known Member
to everyone who posted about my post on the James Franklin thing: I went to Vandy a year and came back to Colorado for a family health situation and transferred to CC. Life is life. I don't think about it much, long time ago.
My Vandy peeps, despite Franklin success thought he was a prick and would get Vandy in a bad place......and there was a thing*.
I didn't watch the vid clip and so I was just going off what other posters posted about the travel thing.
Re-fueling thing makes a lot of sense but at the same time the B10 increase in revenue should be rubber hitting in the road taken care of (yeah, it sucks now you got to travel but there's the money to do it?). unless it isn't?
build a gawd damned runway with the NIL return money.....next time he beats tOSU or Mich.
*kinda rapey thing scandal at Vandy when he was there but I know we had that with Barney too so I suspend judgement.
My Vandy peeps, despite Franklin success thought he was a prick and would get Vandy in a bad place......and there was a thing*.
I didn't watch the vid clip and so I was just going off what other posters posted about the travel thing.
Re-fueling thing makes a lot of sense but at the same time the B10 increase in revenue should be rubber hitting in the road taken care of (yeah, it sucks now you got to travel but there's the money to do it?). unless it isn't?
build a gawd damned runway with the NIL return money.....next time he beats tOSU or Mich.
*kinda rapey thing scandal at Vandy when he was there but I know we had that with Barney too so I suspend judgement.
Mick Ronson
Well-Known Member
also, part of me, you sign up for this new Bi10 travel.....you shouldn't be hearing it from your coach in a presser?
What? There was nothing weird about finishing last Saturday by watching Miami play a late night conference game at Cal. This is our new normal and we are supposed to love this.
Boulder
Well-Known Member
Bringing a lawsuit is easy getting the result you want is difficult. Having an industrial economicist look at the entire thing before legal even touches would be my approach. What is the market, are firms showing price fixing behavior, is there a degree of natural monopoly, how many viable suppliers to the firms actually exist, etc are all questions that should be considered before you turn what laws, regulations, or agreements can be used to promote an opposition to the SEC and B1G. One can make legal arguments for pretty much any position what matters if subject matter experts and case law support your arguments to a high enough degree. The legal remedy is usually damages in the form of money and in rare circumstances minor regulatory concessions or modification guidelines for future behavior (see Microsoft following concerns over browsers in early 2000s). Given the wider regulatory environment it is unlikely it would be possible to stop the plans of the Super 2 barring additional legislation or cases brought before the top levels of the federal court system.
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BerkeleyBuff
Well-Known Member
I would think Oklahoma would be permanent.
If they're going by viewership, it's probably a toss up between LSU and Penn State for #8. If you go by "all time success" then Oklahoma would jump them.
I'm not sure contraction into a tighter and tighter group of "haves" is a long term recipe for success at OU. They've had amazing success over the years, but for the vast majority of that time, they've had one real conference rival challenging them for supremacy - the Nubs in the Big Eight and Texas in the Big 12. Now they've just been launched into a pool where they are suddenly just another program.