CU has rejoined the Big 12 and broken college football - talking out asses continues

[Denver_sc]

CU is not a top 5 ratings team right now, so how we will "continue" to be seems a bit fuzzy.

???

Last year, CU was 3rd only to Alabama and OSU (and the per game difference was like 50K) in per game viewership on national TV. With 9 games being nationally televised, they had a total of ~54M cumulative viewers in their games. In terms of cumulative viewers, that would have put CU 4 (Michigan would move in front of CU).

This year, CU averaged just about 4M viewers per game across 12 games. If the numbers from last year are similar, that would put CU 7th behind those 3 programs plus Georgia, Tennessee, and ND. Without doing the math, my guess is that Michigan, and Tennessee tailed off from last year. Texas and Oregon might have increased, so it's possible, if not probable, that CU is a top 5 ratings team right now.

Either way, they are almost assuredly a top 10 team right now.

 

[Buffnik]

CU does not have anywhere near the sustained interest to currently justify expanding by 10k, and doing so before there is sustained apparent need only hampers the long term revenue potential by providing more product than is necessary and thereby driving down demand.

I'm a big believer in inexpensive tickets to make a game accessible for average income folks and that the environment created by that drives demand for wealthier folks and businesses to purchase premium seats. This was the Mark Cuban model for the Mavs and it works.

So, when I say 65k, I'm talking about expanded student section, a "young alum" discounted ticket plan, expanded ticket opportunities for students and alums of the non CU-B folks in the CU system, and lower priced seating with your upper decks by the south scoreboard and an added west side upper. Adding 15k for this while upgrading premium at Balch is very feasible without running into a supply outstripping demand problem.

 

[BerkeleyBuff]

???

???
You said we will "continue" to be a top 5 ratings program, yet right now (2024), we are not.

 

[BerkeleyBuff]

I'm a big believer in inexpensive tickets to make a game accessible for average income folks and that the environment created by that drives demand for wealthier folks and businesses to purchase premium seats. This was the Mark Cuban model for the Mavs and it works.

So, when I say 65k, I'm talking about expanded student section, a "young alum" discounted ticket plan, expanded ticket opportunities for students and alums of the non CU-B folks in the CU system, and lower priced seating with your upper decks by the south scoreboard and an added west side upper. Adding 15k for this while upgrading premium at Balch is very feasible without running into a supply outstripping demand problem.

I like your optimism, but you've advocates for expansion for years, even though as soon as the program hits rough times the stadium is often 2/3 full (and even the student section doesn't fill them). I mean, do I WANT to have 65,000 buffs screaming every game day? Of course. Is there any indication CU could currently sustain that? No. If we continue to seek out Folsom as is for another 5-10 years? Maybe then start to ponder it. Not to mention the idea is insanely expensive and there's a lot of other investments that are a much better use of that hypothetical money right now.

 

[Highlander]

???
You said we will "continue" to be a top 5 ratings program, yet right now (2024), we are not.

CU checks in at #7 with 3.55M/game.

The next highest ranked B12 team is 30th for Kansas State — 1.38M

The ACC has 4 teams in front of KSU: Miami (2.24M) and then GT, Clemson, and FSU all around 1.75M. After that, we tend to have better viewership than the ACC. UNC checking in at 75th surprised me.

Thanks for the link!

 

[manhattanbuff]

I'm a big believer in inexpensive tickets to make a game accessible for average income folks and that the environment created by that drives demand for wealthier folks and businesses to purchase premium seats. This was the Mark Cuban model for the Mavs and it works.

So, when I say 65k, I'm talking about expanded student section, a "young alum" discounted ticket plan, expanded ticket opportunities for students and alums of the non CU-B folks in the CU system, and lower priced seating with your upper decks by the south scoreboard and an added west side upper. Adding 15k for this while upgrading premium at Balch is very feasible without running into a supply outstripping demand problem.

This is smart thinking. Hopefully someone at the school can make it happen.

 

[Denver_sc]

???
You said we will "continue" to be a top 5 ratings program, yet right now (2024), we are not.

I didn't say "continue"- that was another poster.

I was trying to point out that without going through the detailed examination, it was possible CU was a top 5 team this year- CU definitely was last year, by any measure.

Thank you for providing the link. However, I question the data. Sportsmedia Watch, which is pretty accurate, has different totals for CU:

Game	Opponent	Viewers (Millions)
1​	NDSU	4.76​
2​	Nebraska	5.67​
3​	CSU	3.25​
4​	Baylor	3.64​
5​	UCF	4.17​
6​	KSU	3.26​
7​	Arizona	2.02​
8​	Cincinnatti	2.34​
9​	Tech	3.68​
10​	Utah	4​
11​	Kansas	6.22​
12​	OK St	3.31​
Total		46.32​
Average		3.86​

That would put CU 140K viewers per week behind Michigan for #6. You are correct that CU isn't top 5, but 3.86M weekly viewers is a heck of a lot closer to the 5 slot than it is to even #7 on the list you provided.

 

[Buffnik]

I like your optimism, but you've advocates for expansion for years, even though as soon as the program hits rough times the stadium is often 2/3 full (and even the student section doesn't fill them). I mean, do I WANT to have 65,000 buffs screaming every game day? Of course. Is there any indication CU could currently sustain that? No. If we continue to seek out Folsom as is for another 5-10 years? Maybe then start to ponder it.

In 5-10 years, realignment will have shaken out and you will have missed your window. I understand that you're more driven by fear of failure and are risk averse, but if you're too cautious here it's a great way to frustrate Prime into leaving, cause CU to be relegated to 2nd tier status and at that point our discussion will be about whether to reduce capacity to 40k.

 

[Buffnik]

CU checks in at #7 with 3.55M/game.

The next highest ranked B12 team is 30th for Kansas State — 1.38M

The ACC has 4 teams in front of KSU: Miami (2.24M) and then GT, Clemson, and FSU all around 1.75M. After that, we tend to have better viewership than the ACC. UNC checking in at 75th surprised me.

Thanks for the link!

CU numbers get dragged down by its Big 12 opponents. Like with Cincinnati, which I'm not sure gave us any better number than if we'd played Northern Colorado instead.

 

[SewallBeach]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1866583010801488376

 

[BerkeleyBuff]

CU checks in at #7 with 3.55M/game.

The next highest ranked B12 team is 30th for Kansas State — 1.38M

The ACC has 4 teams in front of KSU: Miami (2.24M) and then GT, Clemson, and FSU all around 1.75M. After that, we tend to have better viewership than the ACC. UNC checking in at 75th surprised me.

Thanks for the link!

Solid showing for us obviously. Still way down from last year. Next year's ratings will really be interesting, coming off a solid year this season but removed from the initial shock factor interest that Prime brought.

 

[BerkeleyBuff]

I didn't say "continue"- that was another poster.

I was trying to point out that without going through the detailed examination, it was possible CU was a top 5 team this year- CU definitely was last year, by any measure.

Thank you for providing the link. However, I question the data. Sportsmedia Watch, which is pretty accurate, has different totals for CU:

Game	Opponent	Viewers (Millions)
1​	NDSU	4.76​
2​	Nebraska	5.67​
3​	CSU	3.25​
4​	Baylor	3.64​
5​	UCF	4.17​
6​	KSU	3.26​
7​	Arizona	2.02​
8​	Cincinnatti	2.34​
9​	Tech	3.68​
10​	Utah	4​
11​	Kansas	6.22​
12​	OK St	3.31​
Total		46.32​
Average		3.86​

That would put CU 140K viewers per week behind Michigan for #6. You are correct that CU isn't top 5, but 3.86M weekly viewers is a heck of a lot closer to the 5 slot than it is to even #7 on the list you provided.

Apologies if I confused you with another poster - you can tell how much attention I put into this (randomly checking threads while working out). Yes, obviously a very good year for us. Long term potential (with or without Prime) is the key to everything of course. As I said to someone else, our numbers were down this year, but we had a better year, so it will be interesting to see how that plays out in next year's ratings.

 

[buffs07]

I didn't say "continue"- that was another poster.

I was trying to point out that without going through the detailed examination, it was possible CU was a top 5 team this year- CU definitely was last year, by any measure.

Thank you for providing the link. However, I question the data. Sportsmedia Watch, which is pretty accurate, has different totals for CU:

Game	Opponent	Viewers (Millions)
1​	NDSU	4.76​
2​	Nebraska	5.67​
3​	CSU	3.25​
4​	Baylor	3.64​
5​	UCF	4.17​
6​	KSU	3.26​
7​	Arizona	2.02​
8​	Cincinnatti	2.34​
9​	Tech	3.68​
10​	Utah	4​
11​	Kansas	6.22​
12​	OK St	3.31​
Total		46.32​
Average		3.86​

That would put CU 140K viewers per week behind Michigan for #6. You are correct that CU isn't top 5, but 3.86M weekly viewers is a heck of a lot closer to the 5 slot than it is to even #7 on the list you provided.

The Kansas game at 6.22m makes me wonder if more people tuned in because we were losing throughout the game. Wow, we have a lot of haters.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

CU does not have anywhere near the sustained interest to currently justify expanding by 10k, and doing so before there is sustained apparent need only hampers the long term revenue potential by providing more product than is necessary and thereby driving down demand.

CU has more student ticket demand that could probably meet the additional 10k demand by itself right now. And while, we are seeing the average fan interest at all time highs because of Prime, we have seen this community and student body support CU when they win, regardless of who is coaching.

 

[Creebuzz]

I didn't say "continue"- that was another poster.

I was trying to point out that without going through the detailed examination, it was possible CU was a top 5 team this year- CU definitely was last year, by any measure.

Thank you for providing the link. However, I question the data. Sportsmedia Watch, which is pretty accurate, has different totals for CU:

Game	Opponent	Viewers (Millions)
1​	NDSU	4.76​
2​	Nebraska	5.67​
3​	CSU	3.25​
4​	Baylor	3.64​
5​	UCF	4.17​
6​	KSU	3.26​
7​	Arizona	2.02​
8​	Cincinnatti	2.34​
9​	Tech	3.68​
10​	Utah	4​
11​	Kansas	6.22​
12​	OK St	3.31​
Total		46.32​
Average		3.86​

That would put CU 140K viewers per week behind Michigan for #6. You are correct that CU isn't top 5, but 3.86M weekly viewers is a heck of a lot closer to the 5 slot than it is to even #7 on the list you provided.

Personally, I’m sick and tired of your gross exaggerations. Top five does not equal #7. This is perhaps one of the worst incidences of disinformation in the history of this forum. Shame on you.

 

[Burrito]

Apologies if I confused you with another poster - you can tell how much attention I put into this (randomly checking threads while working out). Yes, obviously a very good year for us. Long term potential (with or without Prime) is the key to everything of course. As I said to someone else, our numbers were down this year, but we had a better year, so it will be interesting to see how that plays out in next year's ratings.

"In addition to being a world class photographer, I'm also totally swoll!"

 

[dio]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1866583010801488376

Compelling

 

[BerkeleyBuff]

CU has more student ticket demand that could probably meet the additional 10k demand by itself right now. And while, we are seeing the average fan interest at all time highs because of Prime, we have seen this community and student body support CU when they win, regardless of who is coaching.

I would like to believe. Students won't make an extra 10k. The important bit is what you said - fan interest is at an all time high. No argument there. But stadiums aren't built to fit the all time high. We would need to sustain this level of interest for a good while before expansion would be a financially responsible consideration.

 

[BerkeleyBuff]

"In addition to being a world class photographer, I'm also totally swoll!"

Speaking of which I need to go update the photo thread

 

[BuffBronco]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1866678637539495953

 

[Alfred91]

I think that if you go by stadium sizes (dedicated, non-shared facilities), you can get pretty damn close to the list of schools with the commitment, resources and fan base to build your top tier football division. I'm only listing schools which are or were in the ACC, Big 12, Big Ten, Pac-12 and SEC, plus Notre Dame.

1. Michigan (107,600)
2. Penn State (106,562)
3. Ohio State (102, 780)
4. Texas A&M (102,733)
5. LSU (102,321)
6. Tennessee (101,915)
7. Texas (100,119)
8. Alabama (100,077)
9. Georgia (93,033)
10. UCLA (92,542)
11. Nebraska (90,000)
12. Florida (88,548)
13. Auburn (88,043)
14. Clemson (81,500)
15. Oklahoma (80,126)
16. Florida State (79,560)
17. Notre Dame (77,622)
18. South Carolina (77,599)
19. USC (77,500)
20. Arkansas (76,212)
21. Wisconsin (75,822)
22. Michigan State (75,005)
23. Iowa (70,585)
24. Washington (70,083)
25. Pitt (68,400) - shared with Steelers
26. Virginia Tech (65,632)
27. Miami (64,767) - shared with Dolphins
28. Ole Miss (64,038)
29. BYU (63,470)
30. Cal (62,467)
31. Missouri (61,620)
32. Iowa State (61,500)
33. Virginia (61,500)
34. Purdue (61,441)
35. Mississippi State (61,337)
36. Kentucky (61,306)
37. Louisville (60,800)
38. Illinois (60,670)
39. Texas Tech (60,229)
40. West Virginia (60,000)
41. NC State (58,000)
42. Arizona State (56,634)
43. Oklahoma State (55,509)
44. Georgia Tech (55,000)
45. Oregon (54,000)
46. Indiana (52,626)
47. Rutgers (52,454)
48. Maryland (51,802)
49. Utah (51,444)
50. Minnesota (50,805)
51. North Carolina (50,500)
52. Colorado (50,183)
53. Kansas State (50,000)
54. Stanford (50,000)
55. Syracuse (49,057)
56. Baylor (45,140)
57. TCU (45,000)
58. Boston College (44,500)
59. UCF (44,206)
60. Kansas (40,000) - estimate after renovation
61. Vanderbilt (39,790)
62. Cincinnati (38,088)
63. Oregon State (35,548)
64. Northwestern (35,000)
65. Washington State (32,952)
66. SMU (32,000)
67. Wake Forest (31,500)

List of American football stadiums by capacity - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Not that this is the be all and end all for realignment, but it matters. Assuming only $100 per ticket, every 10k in capacity represents an increase of $1M in base revenue per game. When you figure concessions, parking and the fact that the average ticket price is more than $100, the program revenue differentials quickly get into the tens of millions per year just based on this. CU needs to get Folsom to over 60,000 (I'd like 65k for the optics of having the largest stadium in the Big 12). And, frankly, once you get below 70k (Washington at #24), it's slim pickings of teams that can legitimately compete to win a national championship. And how many of the programs below #24 actually move the needle for viewership? Is 32, like the NFL, the right number? I tend to think that college football is different and the number is probably 48.

If Prime is going to stay long term, a Folsom expansion/overhaul is badly needed.

I really think the best maneuver is a year or even two at Mile High while Balch is taken our, west side redone, chair seating installed in key areas, west side seating even with the east side, bleachers replaced in areas that continue to be bleacher seating, bathrooms redone, and of course the bowl closed in the northwest corner.

The money we're currently missing out on by only having seating of 50k is in the millions per game. It has to be tempered at least for now with the thought that Prime might not be here long term, but as of now we'd be selling out at 60-65k for every home game. Add parking and concessions, and honestly, a $5-6 million project probably pays for itself in 2 years.

 

[Bliff Cranch]

If Prime is going to stay long term, a Folsom expansion/overhaul is badly needed.

I really think the best maneuver is a year or even two at Mile High while Balch is taken our, west side redone, chair seating installed in key areas, west side seating even with the east side, bleachers replaced in areas that continue to be bleacher seating, bathrooms redone, and of course the bowl closed in the northwest corner.

The money we're currently missing out on by only having seating of 50k is in the millions per game. It has to be tempered at least for now with the thought that Prime might not be here long term, but as of now we'd be selling out at 60-65k for every home game. Add parking and concessions, and honestly, a $5-6 million project probably pays for itself in 2 years.

I’m not a major capital projects expert but $5-6M seems very low for the renovations you describe.

 

[Boulder]

Inexpensive seats are needed for atmosphere. They are also crucial for building fan interest for the next generation. Expanding to around 60k while increasing premium options is a solid plan. How to finance it and what it looks like are a completely different matter.

 

[Alfred91]

I’m not a major capital projects expert but $5-6M seems very low for the renovations you describe.

Yeah probably. I don't know this stuff either.

 

[Tatanka™]

If Prime is going to stay long term, a Folsom expansion/overhaul is badly needed.

I really think the best maneuver is a year or even two at Mile High while Balch is taken our, west side redone, chair seating installed in key areas, west side seating even with the east side, bleachers replaced in areas that continue to be bleacher seating, bathrooms redone, and of course the bowl closed in the northwest corner.

The money we're currently missing out on by only having seating of 50k is in the millions per game. It has to be tempered at least for now with the thought that Prime might not be here long term, but as of now we'd be selling out at 60-65k for every home game. Add parking and concessions, and honestly, a $5-6 million project probably pays for itself in 2 years.

These should give you an idea of what stadium renovations are costing these days.

Penn State $700,000,000

Penn State approves $700 million stadium upgrade as school hopes to host future College Football Playoff games

Beaver Stadium will undergo renovation and winterization efforts

www.cbssports.com

Mizzou $250,000,000

UM curators reveal $250 million plan to upgrade Memorial Stadium

The plan approved by the University of Missouri System Board of Curators will completely enclose the northern end of the stadium with three tiers of seating, increasing seating capacity from the current 62,621 seats to around 65,000.

www.columbiamissourian.com

Memphis $195,000,000

Memphis Athletics Unveils Details for Transformative Simmons Bank Liberty Stadium Renovation - University of Memphis Athletics

Memphis Athletics has announced updated plans and timelines for the transformative renovation of Simmons Bank Liberty Stadium, which will help propel the sta...

gotigersgo.com

Texas Tech $242,000,000

Check out Texas Tech football's Jones AT&T Stadium renovations

Texas Tech football opens the season with $242 million in new facility features in and around Jones AT&T Stadium

www.lubbockonline.com

Even Wyoming's small project is $20,000,000.

Wyoming Athletics Announces Plans for War Memorial Stadium Renovation - University of Wyoming Athletics

LARAMIE, Wyo. (Nov. 7, 2023) –The University of Wyoming Athletics Department announced today, Nov. 7, its public awareness campaign, and detailed plans for the

gowyo.com

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

Yeah a renovation that Alfred is talking about is likely $100m+ on the conservative side.

 

[Dark Bohner]

Yeah a renovation that Alfred is talking about is likely $100m+ on the conservative side.

Nothing a few Lady Gaga concerts wouldn’t cover.

 

[Not Sure]

Yeah a renovation that Alfred is talking about is likely $100m+ on the conservative side.

Triple that. This **** ain’t cheap.

 

[hokiehead]

Let's recall, 2023 was the first time in CU history we sold out the home slate. It didn't happen in 1990 or 1991. That seems like two really strong data points arguing against expansion.

This year, we only sold out 4/6 games. IIRC, two others didn't sell out until the day before the game. From posts on AllBuffs, it's apparent the season ticket waiting list is getting burned down rather quickly.

We're now in a conference with fewer a smaller number of marquee opponents than we've had in most of our lifetimes. The future non-conf schedules have at most one home game per year that I'd predict being as big a draw as a XII game.

I'm not currently buying the perspective of "if you build it they will come", but I do understand Nik's argument of "you have to spend money to make money". I'm really curious if CU can continue to get 40k+ butts in seats on game day if the Broncos return to being playoff contenders with any consistency.

 

[Denver_sc]

I’m not a major capital projects expert but $5-6M seems very low for the renovations you describe.

The additions on the East Side of the stadium were $45M back around 2000 IIRC; I remember that because I was a student at the time and many faculty and other students were complaining about how much it cost.