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I really hate the Denver sports media

Not Sure

Sets low bar, barely exceeds it.
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not sure you know enough to definitively say that.
You’re not sure that I can definiteively say that the risk/return on newspaper investments is too high?

Well, alrighty then. If it’s all the same to you, I’ll refrain from getting investment advice from you for the time being.
 

Jens1893

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If done right, you can make money at the business. See WaPo and the NYT over the last few years. But it took a revamping. Right now the DP's owner is using it as an ATM. But I think they are near the end of that road. DP will probably be sold off for the scrap it is in the next couple years. What happens then will be interesting. Will something replace the DP, or will the new buyer resuscitate it in some fashion?
Can you really compare the Denver Post with the NYT and the WaPo? NYT is an internationally renowned, de facto national newspaper in one of the world's most important media markets and the WaPo covers the political leadership of the nation that has strongly shaped the world economically, culturally and politically over the last 70-80 years. I think both those papers have quit a bit of international and global draw. The Post? Does anyone outside Colorado read it except for the Broncos pages?

I am not really disagreeing here, more like wondering if there's a more local or regional newspaper that's in really good shape right now?
 

Darth Snow

Hawaiian Buffalo
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You’re not sure that I can definiteively say that the risk/return on newspaper investments is too high?

Well, alrighty then. If it’s all the same to you, I’ll refrain from getting investment advice from you for the time being.
I didn't know you were an expert and able to compare horse ranching to newspapers with such authority. I've not seen numbers, but since the DP is profitable, it seems like it could be a good buy at the right price. Feel free to convince me that you are doin gmore than speaking in generalities.

Can you really compare the Denver Post with the NYT and the WaPo? NYT is an internationally renowned, de facto national newspaper in one of the world's most important media markets and the WaPo covers the political leadership of the nation that has strongly shaped the world economically, culturally and politically over the last 70-80 years. I think both those papers have quit a bit of international and global draw. The Post? Does anyone outside Colorado read it except for the Broncos pages?

I am not really disagreeing here, more like wondering if there's a more local or regional newspaper that's in really good shape right now?
You absolutely are right here. There is a difference, and a big one, between these newspaper properties. My point was that, at least for some papers, it is possible to be profitable in the modern age if you provide enough value. Those papers are doing it, and they have far higher costs due to what they cover, so maybe the DP could do it if they kept their vision narrow and their costs down. Hell, they are doing it, but they aren't making enough to defeat the money siphon that is their ownership.

But it is an interesting question. Just how much money can a revamped DP make per year?
 

DrunkRalphie

Well-Known Member
You absolutely are right here. There is a difference, and a big one, between these newspaper properties. My point was that, at least for some papers, it is possible to be profitable in the modern age if you provide enough value. Those papers are doing it, and they have far higher costs due to what they cover, so maybe the DP could do it if they kept their vision narrow and their costs down. Hell, they are doing it, but they aren't making enough to defeat the money siphon that is their ownership.

But it is an interesting question. Just how much money can a revamped DP make per year?
Being the only game in town would have to be a huge competitive advantage and something the right ownership could leverage.
 

Not Sure

Sets low bar, barely exceeds it.
Club Member
I didn't know you were an expert and able to compare horse ranching to newspapers with such authority. I've not seen numbers, but since the DP is profitable, it seems like it could be a good buy at the right price. Feel free to convince me that you are doin gmore than speaking in generalities.
I am speaking in generalities. Generally speaking, newspaper publishing is a risky investment given the current state of the economy and the overall decline in newspaper revenues across the board. I’ve seen nothing to indicate that the Denver Post represents anything different to provide value to an investor.

Is this really an argument you want to have?
 

Darth Snow

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I am speaking in generalities. Generally speaking, newspaper publishing is a risky investment given the current state of the economy and the overall decline in newspaper revenues across the board. I’ve seen nothing to indicate that the Denver Post represents anything different to provide value to an investor.

Is this really an argument you want to have?
Thank you for confirming my point. It's weird to be so certain about something when you don't know anything. That's all.
 

dio

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It's going to be even more interesting around here when the local tv news stations go in the tank as well.

I still think what you will see is a national service, like the NYT or the WaPo basically have bureau's in major regions that do the local coverage. People will subscribe to the NYT or the WaPo or whatever and then they will pay an additional fee for local regional coverage.

Most of the big players already have this setup - for example the AP has Nick Riccardi as their regional reporter, and he provides some insight on local matters.
 

Not Sure

Sets low bar, barely exceeds it.
Club Member
Thank you for confirming my point. It's weird to be so certain about something when you don't know anything. That's all.
Good God you’re infuriating.

So, I guess thank you for proving that point, too.

Carry on. Let me know how your investments in dying industries are working out for you.
 

Not Sure

Sets low bar, barely exceeds it.
Club Member
Great news, by he way. Although it took some digging, I was able to figure out who actually owns the Denver Post.

Rupert Murdoch.

Well, he is the CEO of the company that owns the company that owns the Denver Post. So knock yourself out with that investment in one of Rupert’s companies.
 

Darth Snow

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Great news, by he way. Although it took some digging, I was able to figure out who actually owns the Denver Post.

Rupert Murdoch.

Well, he is the CEO of the company that owns the company that owns the Denver Post. So knock yourself out with that investment in one of Rupert’s companies.
You realize that if you buy the company, it's not Rupert's anymore, right? I would hope you do.

Also, you know I'm not investing in the denver post, so this line of weird smarmy attack is silly and childish.
 

Buffnik

Real name isn't Nik
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I am speaking in generalities. Generally speaking, newspaper publishing is a risky investment given the current state of the economy and the overall decline in newspaper revenues across the board. I’ve seen nothing to indicate that the Denver Post represents anything different to provide value to an investor.

Is this really an argument you want to have?
Really depends on the valuation, right? I’m with you in that I’d significantly discount valuation based on the industry
 

DBT

Club Member
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The Denver Post needs to be put down. They are the ones who should have shuttered 10 years ago, not the Rocky Mountain News. It is just garbage.
So. You’d be fine with no major paper in Denver?
 

dio

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So. You’d be fine with no major paper in Denver?
I reduced my Denver Post reading over the past year, and eliminated it entirely when they went to subscription model. My life hasn't gotten worse.

The Posts coverage of sports sucks. I would rather read a specialized site for the Avs, Rockies, Buffs and Broncos.

I get better coverage on national issues from the WaPo.

Local breaking news I get from following those local institutions (police, fire, city and county services)

I miss the investigative and local politics, but I get some of that from local journalists I follow on Twitter.
 

Scotch

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I miss the investigative and local politics, but I get some of that from local journalists I follow on Twitter.
Any recommendations? Been digging in to Twitter more and more the past few months.
 

DBT

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I reduced my Denver Post reading over the past year, and eliminated it entirely when they went to subscription model. My life hasn't gotten worse.

The Posts coverage of sports sucks. I would rather read a specialized site for the Avs, Rockies, Buffs and Broncos.

I get better coverage on national issues from the WaPo.

Local breaking news I get from following those local institutions (police, fire, city and county services)

I miss the investigative and local politics, but I get some of that from local journalists I follow on Twitter.
I canceled my subscription as well. They went to, like, $180 a year for the digital version. No way I’m paying that much to read a sports section featuring Mark Kiszla. And I know some here disagree with me, but the way they railroaded Terry Frei pissed me off. And I don’t even like Terry Frei. I’ve actually been considering giving the Colorado Springs Gazette a shot. They have some really good sports writers.
 

DBT

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Not sure it would change my life or the news that I get on a daily basis. So yes, I would be ok with it going bye bye.
Well, a major city should have a top notch paper (digital version anyway). Too bad the once great Denver Post decided it wasn’t worth the effort and, apparently, expense. At one time the were the top mid major paper in the country.
 

skibum

Did not pee on the Alamo.
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Many dying industries produce dwindling profits for a surprisingly long time; they have to be managed properly, but it's possible to extract profit out of dying industries for a lot longer than many people think is possible.

There are quite a few PE firms that specialize in making new investments in dying industries; those firms often give their investors very high returns. It's really kind of amazing how much money can be made.
 

DBT

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I would think a digital paper would be way less expensive to produce than hard copy.
 

Buffnik

Real name isn't Nik
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I would think a digital paper would be way less expensive to produce than hard copy.
Yep. To produce and to distribute. Problem is on the revenue side. They lost the core of their advertising to Craig's List (classifieds), Realtor.com (real estate section), Indeed.com (classifieds, again) and to digital coupons. They also lost some of their core reason for existing with all of the websites that handle parts of what used to be in the newspaper and do it better than the newspapers ever did such as the personals being replaced by dating sites. With sports, they still do a great job with previews and features but they lost almost the entire audience for the box scores because by the time the paper comes out it's history rather than news.
 

MiamiBuffs

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I am not sure by choice - it was announced 12 days ago the post was going to do a massive cut back and Nicki was one of the people to take a shot at the ownership of the Post. They have 90 people in their newsroom and are cutting back 30%...meaning there will probably be about 60 Journalist total. At one time the RMN and the Denver Post had over 700 journalist. This makes one wonder about how much depth journalism will have in the future - although depth has been declining for some time. It seems like we have more news then ever before and less quality news.
Layoffs coming was announced 2 weeks ago. Staff found out today who would be cut. My friend survived. She's been there since the 90s but is scared ****less because she doesn't want to change careers. Another vet from the 90s was let go.

If done right, you can make money at the business. See WaPo and the NYT over the last few years. But it took a revamping. Right now the DP's owner is using it as an ATM. But I think they are near the end of that road. DP will probably be sold off for the scrap it is in the next couple years. What happens then will be interesting. Will something replace the DP, or will the new buyer resuscitate it in some fashion?
Exceptions to the rule. Those are big metro areas that have national media interests in them. Already did spectacular coverage and Acted like nations paper. And WaPo was having a hard time before Bezos bought them and Trump became president. LA Times and Chicago Tribune cant say the same as well as the Las Vegas Journal or Phoenix Republic.

The Denver Post needs to be put down. They are the ones who should have shuttered 10 years ago, not the Rocky Mountain News. It is just garbage.
RMN had a better pedigree and an owner that invested a lot in them. And they lost money every year. They were also the smarter businessmen; They get a share of the Posts profits for decades and to this day unless that was renegotiated, for shutting the RMN down.

So. You’d be fine with no major paper in Denver?
Not good. Who will cover the state and local politicians to keep them from cheating? And The cops? I guess the local TV stations could but they are not good at that stuff because GO BRONCOS is much easier. Westwood will probably be the paper.
 
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Jens1893

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I canceled my subscription as well. They went to, like, $180 a year for the digital version. No way I’m paying that much to read a sports section featuring Mark Kiszla. And I know some here disagree with me, but the way they railroaded Terry Frei pissed me off. And I don’t even like Terry Frei. I’ve actually been considering giving the Colorado Springs Gazette a shot. They have some really good sports writers.
I think Paul Klee is the best writer in the state.
 
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MtnBuff

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Layoffs coming was announced 2 weeks ago. Staff found out today who would be cut. My friend survived. She's been there since the 90s but is scared ****less because she doesn't want to change careers. Another vet from the 90s was let go.



Exceptions to the rule. Those are big metro areas that have national media interests in them. Already did spectacular coverage and Acted like nations paper. And WaPo was having a hard time before Bezos bought them and Trump became president. LA Times and Chicago Tribune cant say the same as well as the Las Vegas Journal or Phoenix Republic.



RMN had a better pedigree and an owner that invested a lot in them. And they lost money every year. They were also the smarter businessmen; They get a share of the Posts profits for decades and to this day unless that was renegotiated, for shutting the RMN down.



Not good. Who will cover the state and local politicians to keep them from cheating? And The cops? I guess the local TV stations could but they are not good at that stuff because GO BRONCOS is much easier. Westwood will probably be the paper.
Local TV newsrooms are getting cut as well.

With the fracturing of the market local news broadcast are no longer catching significant majorities of viewers..
They aren't interested in funding investigative stories when they can run two car crashes and a bloody shooting for much cheaper.
 

Highlander

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RMN had a better pedigree and an owner that invested a lot in them. And they lost money every year. They were also the smarter businessmen; They get a share of the Posts profits for decades and to this day unless that was renegotiated, for shutting the RMN down.
I know you are closer to this than I am, but this doesn't resonate.

If they were smarter businessmen at the RNM, they wouldn't have lost money every year. Also, if the Post is losing money more often than not, there are no profits to share.
 

Dorn09

Well-Known Member
I made the mistake of turning on the fan today and heard Mark Schlereth sticking up for the Broncos because they have not suspended Adam Gotsis.

If a Buff player or a coach was accused of the same and CU did not suspend them we would be getting crushed in the media. Media silence for the Broncos.
 
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