Is CU as much of a rebuilding project as we think?

[CarolinaBuff]

Holy crap, 59 replies in a little over an hour?!? You go off to do some work and who knows what you might miss around here.

 

[White_Rabbit]

I think we might be able to have a better transition class this time around than last. Whoever we bring in will have been recruiting players from this class and will probably flip a few of their commits. Embree and crew came from the NFL and had to compile info for pretty much their entire class.

 

[Dark Bohner]

It's a MASSIVE rebuild. Hell, 2 wins and only getting blown out, say, 3 times would be a giant leap forward.

Still gonna be counting on a lot of freshmen, including at QB. At least I hope we have a frosh QB starting next year because I've seen enough of the other guys.

Why?? Embree played a record number of freshman his first year! he played a record number his second year! Shouldn't this team have a bunch of guys with experience as sophomores and juniors now?

 

[CrosbysLeg]

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

I may have gone overboard on Utah, but I refuse to believe we're less talented than CSU, an FCS school, and a school that has gone 12-49 in the last 5 seasons (we're a vastly superior 20-41 over that span... yeck)

 

[4thGenBuff]

Just consider some of the offensive fire power to be added this next year:
QB Dillon
WR Paul Richardson, Jeff Thomas, Peyton Williams

Only five players but five player that could have swung multiple games into our favor. PRich alone could have altered the stack the box defensive strategy used against us.

 

[branjohb]

I know, I know... 7 straight losing seasons, coming off 1-11, statistics that put the team close to last across the board, tons of recent blowout losses, etc., etc.

But bear with me.

Embree and other football guys close to the program feel really good about the young talent on the team.

Those freshmen and sophomores will be sophomores and juniors next year.

Some exciting talent from the 2012 class greyshirted and will be joining in the spring along with a fully healthy Paul Richardson.

Might a coach look at this job and think that 2013 is positioned to be much improved and have confidence that he can both finish the 2013 recruiting class strongly while also pulling in a great 2014 class on the back of new coach excitement, a facilities announcement, and improved W/L results?

I'm thinking that CU may be positioned similarly to how OU was when Stoops took that job. Not "poised for a national title", but "poised for a similar degree of fast improvement" that could launch long-term success.

Thoughts?

CU is a basket case. Even with more experience under their belts, the freshman and sophomores on this team cannot compete with the USC, OU, Stanford, etc. athletes. We are a cut below. You cannot get walloped week after week and think it will get much better when these kids mature.

Perhaps a better coach can work to get more out of the kids (Gary Barnett was an expert at getting mediocre talent to compete against bigger, better, and faster teams) and discipline the program enough to quit making bone head mistakes.

Our new head coach better be a great recruiter. We need better athletes to compete, not the leftovers we are getting in California. Embree and EB were supposed to be great recruiters, but we have been ranked mid to lower even in the Pac 12.

Comparing us to where Stoops was is a long reach, but nice try.

 

[J.R. Ewing]

Of the PAC 12 teams we play next year, which team are we more talented than?

 

[4thGenBuff]

We have as much talent roster as Arizona, Arizona St, and Utah and beating these teams is step one of rebuilding our program. We need to be kings of the mountain/desert region before conquering the coast.

 

[CrosbysLeg]

Of the PAC 12 teams we play next year, which team are we more talented than?

I still contend Washington State. They may put up better numbers because of their system, but I think our athletes are better. I do wonder about our offensive line. It's the most important group on the field, and is largely based on motivation and communication. We looked like we were playing with a group of deaf mutes that weighed roughly 120 pounds. No way kids that big should blown off the ball so easily-- I think this is the quickest and most vital improvement of good coaching.

 

[gobuffs58]

no way on az st and az

 

[BuffNut99]

A coach with average (2*-3*) players, who gets that average talent to run through brick walls for every play, every week, tends to win more games than he loses. We had our kids in this mindset for about a combined 3 quarters last season (being generous).

If we get a staff who knows what the F they're doing, we'll win more games right away.

 

[CrosbysLeg]

no way on az st and az

Agreed. My thoughts on that statement:

 

[4thGenBuff]

The talent between CU and the Zonas is not that great. Just their coaching and system were far better. Keep in mind we beat Zona last year. This is why Embree coaching change was necessary the quality of food coming out of the kitchen was not equal to the quality of ingredients going into the kitchen. It was time to change chefs.

Earlier analysis of 12 + 13 recruiting classes (2013 has now changed for the worse but hopefully a new coach could change that)

	3*	4*	D1 Caliber	Ranked
Colorado	30	3	33	10
Arizona St	20	4	24	10
Arizona	29	4	33	11
Utah	28	5	33	14
CSU	6	0	6	0

	3*+4*
Colorado	33
Arizona	33
Utah	33
Arizona St	24
CSU	6

 

[CrosbysLeg]

While we might have been playing most of our 2012 class, I think they were busy playing their 2009 and 2010 recruits. And they ran right past our defensive ends, and ran right over our offensive linemen.

 

[slider]

The only real players we lose out of the two deep are Pericak, Major, and Kasa. Pericak is a pretty big loss however. Rippy basically didn't play all season and Polk didn't either. Richter/Ebner were our only other Seniors. We pretty much return 99% of our team (assuming no attrition)

 

[SINKRATZ]

Yeah but the team we are returning sucked.

 

[o_robbie]

I have said this before but our "D" will look so much better if our offense can somehow find away to control the ball for an additional meaningful 10 minutes of the game. Gives them time to make adjustments, rest, get a drink of gatorade etc... before going back on the field.

Our OOC games should be winnable.
Utah, Wash St., UCLA, AZ, AZ St. We would need to win 3 of these and then we are bowl eligible. I still think 4 wins should be the improvement goal but 5 or 6 could be realistic if we start out 3-0

 

[o_robbie]

Yeah but the team we are returning sucked.

After watching most of the CU games I would have to say our playcalling was really brutal on "O". Granted EB didn't have a lot to work with in the passing game but the QB play next year is going to be better because the WR group is going to be so much better.

 

[Quattro]

After watching most of the CU games I would have to say our playcalling was really brutal on "O". Granted EB didn't have a lot to work with in the passing game but the QB play next year is going to be better because the WR group is going to be so much better.

Zone stretch
Zone stretch
Screen

 

[slider]

EB was a pro at calling up fly/fade routes to Dustin Ebner. Those were great calls

 

[BuffaloChuck]

Nik, I'm going back to your Post #1... I don't have any sentimental valuations of the "young talent on team". All this program can justifiably beat their chest about is "We know how to lose!" and "We know how to lose often!"

That's what their behaviors have crushed into their character.

If there's a quick-fix to this psyche, then CU Football and no program is far from championship ways. Just flip the switch.

There is a far longer tradition of not working hard, accepting excuses, and learning to 'get by' with as little effort as possible. I argue this point because we haven't seen any group display a superior 2nd-half tendency in years. We haven't seen any season get better every game as the season went on.

We HAVE heard a litany of the same tired excuses, from one coaching staff to another. This sameness plus the sameness of a Game 1's quality of play to Last Game Of Season's quality shows what these players have endured here - a dulling effect that eroded their will to work toward true success.

I don't think flipping a switch will work. It might, though. I wonder if this staff can convince the incoming recruits to accept THEIR advice instead of more closely mimicking teammates' lazy habits that they've spent years learning.

 

[Burrito]

Cool ade.

 

[89BUFF89]

With limited talent and poor QB play having a pro set offense made it that much easier to defend against us...gotta spread things out to even have a chance...

 

[Buffenuf]

With limited talent and poor QB play having a pro set offense made it that much easier to defend against us...gotta spread things out to even have a chance...

Explain to me how and where the Buffs' talent is "limited", other than not having a couple of 6'2-6'4 burners at WR and a couple of 6'3, 240 lb. 4.5 LBs?

I watched an inexperienced, disorganized staff trying to absolutely pound a round college peg into a square NFL hole, with resultant confusion, disorganization, poor play-calling, lack of effort and low morale. I saw a HC who alternately moped and ranted, all to no effect. I saw a team that was unprepared, even when they knew what was coming (AZ game was the worst, Stanford 2nd, UCLA/Utah tied for 3rd) all because of coaching or lack thereof.

I say the talent is there, it needs to be developed and coached up. Those players who disagree/refuse can transfer to UNC or Pueblo.

 

[Quattro]

Explain to me how and where the Buffs' talent is "limited", other than not having a couple of 6'2-6'4 burners at WR and a couple of 6'3, 240 lb. 4.5 LBs?

I watched an inexperienced, disorganized staff trying to absolutely pound a round college peg into a square NFL hole, with resultant confusion, disorganization, poor play-calling, lack of effort and low morale. I saw a HC who alternately moped and ranted, all to no effect. I saw a team that was unprepared, even when they knew what was coming (AZ game was the worst, Stanford 2nd, UCLA/Utah tied for 3rd) all because of coaching or lack thereof.

I say the talent is there, it needs to be developed and coached up. Those players who disagree/refuse can transfer to UNC or Pueblo.

Fresno State>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Arizona

 

[Duff Man]

Yes.

We lack team speed, have little depth on the OL, and have a major question to answer at QB.

 

[89BUFF89]

I said limited talent not no talent. Yes, coach MM needs to maximize what we have but my point was the offense we ran made it even harder to be successful.

 

[MtnBuff]

Yes.

We lack team speed, have little depth on the OL, and have a major question to answer at QB.

And those are our strong points :lol:

By virtually every measure we fall short of being a competitive AQ level team. We do have some individual bright spots but so does virtually every other team including the bad ones like us.

 

[Buffnik]

Good post by BuffaloChuck above.

The culture is the biggest concern regarding a quick turn around. Talent isn't terrible. Good in spots. No glaring holes if we can find a QB.

I'm counting on Embree to have done some things well while he was here. I believe he improved the roster and the culture. And I believe that the administration got rid of him before that progress was lost with more on-field failure.

 

[o_robbie]

I think we have team speed at the DB position. We need to get tougher at OL TE LB and at DT. I bet if you put Boise St.'s team speed up against ours we would be relatively similar next season. It is going to come down to coaching and QB play for us next year.

Even if Crawley and Yuri transfer out we still have decent DB speed in the first team.