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Mark Kennedy new, but soon to be old CU President - Official CU president Thread


This seems so stupid to me

Why? SAT and ACT scores are often inflated for students with the resources to get the tutoring and prep classes just as the article mentions.

I was able to crush a grad school entrance exam because I could afford the prep class. That isn’t really fair to other applicants who are just as smart as me, but without the resources.
 
Why? SAT and ACT scores are often inflated for students with the resources to get the tutoring and prep classes just as the article mentions.

I was able to crush a grad school entrance exam because I could afford the prep class. That isn’t really fair to other applicants who are just as smart as me, but without the resources.
Agreed, a lot of the problems you come across on the SAT/ACT are such unique setups that if you don't see similar types of questions beforehand, it's hard to do well. The thing I'll be interested to see is which universities actually take advantage of this and don't look at SAT/ACT scores. I feel like schools will continue to look at them as a benchmark for acceptance.
 
Many schools did away with the SAT/ACT requirements years ago and had a better handle on how to approach admissions during a pandemic as a result. DU comes immediately to mind, but they aren’t alone.
 
I spent 0 minutes studying or preparing for the ACT. Took it twice. Score went up 1 pt on the 2nd exam. Took the GRE as well. Spent 0 time prepping for it. I remember a couple other students in there talking about the score they hoped to get on the verbal part of the GRE, they were A&S students. My score on that portion was like 20 points higher than what they hoped. I had a single technical writing course. I realized then how useless those tests were. But it was required for 2 of the 3 grad schools I had applied to (CU and UW).
 
The SAT ACT score has like a 1% predictor value on if a student will be successful. Four years of HS GPA is a far stronger predictor.
 
Your numbers seem impossible to be true.

Who is more likely to succeed? The 2.0 GPA student with a 1200 or a 3.4 GPA student with a 1200?

The guy whose number I was quoting was on NPR over a year ago when California announced it was dropping the test. After they ran the numbers the schools realized that test scores were a terrible predicator if a candidate would succeed. they were putting future students thru unneeded work, costing them money, blocking the poor, and creating heartache. It was just a hoop To jump thru.

He said that rich kids that are poor students can prep for a test. Whereas grades can not be preped for and 30 to 40 different educators have weighed in on an individuals dedication, organizational skills, work ethic and smarts as a student. The work the student will do in college is ultimately not that different than in HS. The intensity will just be higher.

The 2.0 guy with the 1200. You think he joins a frat? Skips class to go skiing? Drinks and parties more than the 3.4 candidate?
 
Who is more likely to succeed? The 2.0 GPA student with a 1200 or a 3.4 GPA student with a 1200?

The guy whose number I was quoting was on NPR over a year ago when California announced it was dropping the test. After they ran the numbers the schools realized that test scores were a terrible predicator if a candidate would succeed. they were putting future students thru unneeded work, costing them money, blocking the poor, and creating heartache. It was just a hoop To jump thru.

He said that rich kids that are poor students can prep for a test. Whereas grades can not be preped for and 30 to 40 different educators have weighed in on an individuals dedication, organizational skills, work ethic and smarts as a student. The work the student will do in college is ultimately not that different than in HS. The intensity will just be higher.

The 2.0 guy with the 1200. You think he joins a frat? Skips class to go skiing? Drinks and parties more than the 3.4 candidate?

How does a school decide between admitting two 3.4 GPA students--one who attended a small town public school that didn't offer AP courses and one who attended a private school in New Jersey that offered AP courses but the student didn't take any?

Unfortunately, GPAs and reference letters can also be manipulated by parents and schools. Testing isn't the answer. The real answer--an actual investigation of applicants' skills and work ethic, including an in-person interview--is too expensive for all but the wealthiest schools. It's no surprise that the most selective universities all require an interview. Fortunately, any person who graduated with even so-so grades from an American high school will be accepted into any number of fine universities and can receive a fantastic education if he or she so chooses.
 
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On addition to high school grades, the trajectory of those grades is also a factor. A kid who starts out with a 2.5 but finishes with a 4.0 and a cumulative 3.5 is probably better prepared than the kid who starts at 4.0 and finishes with the 2.5 but still has the same cumulative GPA.
 
Who is more likely to succeed? The 2.0 GPA student with a 1200 or a 3.4 GPA student with a 1200?

The guy whose number I was quoting was on NPR over a year ago when California announced it was dropping the test. After they ran the numbers the schools realized that test scores were a terrible predicator if a candidate would succeed. they were putting future students thru unneeded work, costing them money, blocking the poor, and creating heartache. It was just a hoop To jump thru.

He said that rich kids that are poor students can prep for a test. Whereas grades can not be preped for and 30 to 40 different educators have weighed in on an individuals dedication, organizational skills, work ethic and smarts as a student. The work the student will do in college is ultimately not that different than in HS. The intensity will just be higher.

The 2.0 guy with the 1200. You think he joins a frat? Skips class to go skiing? Drinks and parties more than the 3.4 candidate?
That’s not really the argument though. It’s an additional data point to use in evaluation. Tons of school inflate gpas through through what course work they take compared to others. There are also plenty of kids who are smart who don’t apply themselves in high school as much for different reasons (jobs, sports, boredom) and that can change dramatically when they get to college and are actually paying for their education and can pick what they want to learn. I never said that gpas should not be considered just that test scores are also a good way to evaluate potential students.
 
That’s not really the argument though. It’s an additional data point to use in evaluation. Tons of school inflate gpas through through what course work they take compared to others. There are also plenty of kids who are smart who don’t apply themselves in high school as much for different reasons (jobs, sports, boredom) and that can change dramatically when they get to college and are actually paying for their education and can pick what they want to learn. I never said that gpas should not be considered just that test scores are also a good way to evaluate potential students.
That was me in high school. Most nights I did no homework, and my grades reflected that. I didn't really try until senior year. Without my SAT/ACT scores, I never would have gotten into CU engineering. I did well once I got in though.
 
I completely agree that the tests are stupid. I completely destroyed those tests and I am barely put a sentence together. At the end of the day however, unless we get rid of all tests which not going to happen because the alternative is way harder for teachers, then it is still a skill that people will need in the future. The real work should be on improving the tests so that they cant be juked with a prep course.

The real question is who do they pick between a 3.4 GPA with 1000 SAT (worked two jobs) or a 2.7 GPA with a 1150 GPA (class president). As many have pointed out above, it shouldn't be eliminated as a data point but maybe just de-emphasized...
 
I completely agree that the tests are stupid. I completely destroyed those tests and I am barely put a sentence together. At the end of the day however, unless we get rid of all tests which not going to happen because the alternative is way harder for teachers, then it is still a skill that people will need in the future. The real work should be on improving the tests so that they cant be juked with a prep course.

The real question is who do they pick between a 3.4 GPA with 1000 SAT (worked two jobs) or a 2.7 GPA with a 1150 GPA (class president). As many have pointed out above, it shouldn't be eliminated as a data point but maybe just de-emphasized...
Not sure if that was intentional.
 
That’s not really the argument though. It’s an additional data point to use in evaluation. Tons of school inflate gpas through through what course work they take compared to others. There are also plenty of kids who are smart who don’t apply themselves in high school as much for different reasons (jobs, sports, boredom) and that can change dramatically when they get to college and are actually paying for their education and can pick what they want to learn. I never said that gpas should not be considered just that test scores are also a good way to evaluate potential students.
Im merely regurgitating what he said. They simply said standard tests didnt offer much compared to the hassle they caused. And that grades in HS were the best indicator of success in college. The idea that 30 to 40 teachers would collude in a conspiracy to give a kid grades he she shouldnt get or doesnt deserve has been extremely rare.

This guy is Also saying that standardized test scores were not a factor in outcomes at his school. They filed test scores that did come in before 2020 on a “test flexible“ policy they used. He said in some cases the score might have clouded the decision to admit:

Jonathan Burdick, is The University of Rochester vice provost for enrollment initiatives and dean of admissions and financial aid.

“There wasn’t a basis to say that those tests scores would have made us make better or even different decisions,” Burdick said.

Students who were admitted on the basis of, say, their IB scores and later had low SAT scores submitted “have graduated in equivalent numbers to anybody else, in four years and in many cases with honors,” Burdick said. “Had we had the SAT it might have made us less likely to make the good decision.”

The university will go fully test-optional in the fall of 2020.

What really bothers Burdick is the “the distortion of two years of your life during high school,” studying for the ACT or SAT. “You could be spending that 60 hours or more doing test prep doing other, more meaningful things that actually are more productive for your life in the long run.”




I agree that grades can be inflated. Ive seen it first hand. The kids that do put in the hard work also advocate for themselves and seek out extra credit to insure they pass with the highest grade possible.

My daughter hates taking classes that offer a maximum grade of an A 4.0. Because her GPA is 4.3 she wants it to go up further. But PE is PE and you have to take it and it slightly pulls down your overall GPA. Interestingly her SAT score on the first attempt wasnt as good (She refuses to admit what she got) but her ACT score was much better.
 
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Im merely regurgitating what he said. They simply said standard tests didnt offer much compared to the hassle they caused. And that grades in HS were the best indicator of success in college. The idea that 30 to 40 teachers would collude in a conspiracy to give a kid grades he she shouldnt get or doesnt deserve has been extremely rare.

This guy is Also saying that standardized test scores were not a factor in outcomes at his school. They filed test scores that did come in before 2020 on a “test flexible“ policy they used. He said in some cases the score might have clouded the decision to admit:

Jonathan Burdick, is The University of Rochester vice provost for enrollment initiatives and dean of admissions and financial aid.

“There wasn’t a basis to say that those tests scores would have made us make better or even different decisions,” Burdick said.

Students who were admitted on the basis of, say, their IB scores and later had low SAT scores submitted “have graduated in equivalent numbers to anybody else, in four years and in many cases with honors,” Burdick said. “Had we had the SAT it might have made us less likely to make the good decision.”

The university will go fully test-optional in the fall of 2020.

What really bothers Burdick is the “the distortion of two years of your life during high school,” studying for the ACT or SAT. “You could be spending that 60 hours or more doing test prep doing other, more meaningful things that actually are more productive for your life in the long run.”




I agree that grades can be inflated. Ive seen it first hand. The kids that do put in the hard work also advocate for themselves and seek out extra credit to insure they pass with the highest grade possible.

My daughter hates taking classes that offer a maximum grade of an A 4.0. Because her GPA is 4.3 she wants it to go up further. But PE is PE and you have to take it and it slightly pulls down your overall GPA. Interestingly her SAT score on the first attempt wasnt as good (She refuses to admit what she got) but her ACT score was much better.
I think the assumption about schools messing with GPA or the curve would be that it benefits college prep schools to have more kids in better colleges. If inflating grades achieves that goal there is incentive for them to do that.

Going test optional is all well and good for that 4 years of your life. Society is not dropping tests however. The goal of school should be to help prepare you for the rest of your life. It does benefit people to know how to take tests well. I would argue that those 60 hours actually aren't all that poorly spent. If the test prep is such a variance in social economic groups maybe the government should work on grants for kids who cant afford these classes.
 

Lucero, a former Regent, and the other author nail it. A partisan political move by the dishonest BFA, in coordination with new Board control by Democrats. The BFA had no problem dishonestly and deceitfully resorting to character assassination to terminate Kennedy. Standard tactics of the left - the new President will need to pass an unspoken political litmus test approved by the BFA and BOR.

"What is certain is that the termination of Mark Kennedy is a political act, and the faculty, to their shame, aided that effort."

"That’s right: to censure a system leader installed 21 months ago, Boulder faculty discussed (then elided) longstanding trends on its own campus!"

"And in 2017, Boulder ranked last among PAC-12 schools for ethnic diversity, with Black and Latinx students badly underrepresented compared to Colorado’s demographics."

"The censure resolution, so strangely linked to the Regents’ decision to terminate the president, is a partisan act—an attempt to cancel a university leader for his political leanings and a shameful reminder that politicizing the academy weakens higher education."
 

Lucero, a former Regent, and the other author nail it. A partisan political move by the dishonest BFA, in coordination with new Board control by Democrats. The BFA had no problem dishonestly and deceitfully resorting to character assassination to terminate Kennedy. Standard tactics of the left - the new President will need to pass an unspoken political litmus test approved by the BFA and BOR.

"What is certain is that the termination of Mark Kennedy is a political act, and the faculty, to their shame, aided that effort."

"That’s right: to censure a system leader installed 21 months ago, Boulder faculty discussed (then elided) longstanding trends on its own campus!"

"And in 2017, Boulder ranked last among PAC-12 schools for ethnic diversity, with Black and Latinx students badly underrepresented compared to Colorado’s demographics."

"The censure resolution, so strangely linked to the Regents’ decision to terminate the president, is a partisan act—an attempt to cancel a university leader for his political leanings and a shameful reminder that politicizing the academy weakens higher education."
Political hire, political fire.

Two wrongs, no right.

Your tears, crocodile, they are laughable.
 
Dude - the difference is no one's character was attacked when Kennedy was hired. You, of course, understand that huge difference, but just don't care.

Calling someone a failure isn't an attack on his character. OTOH, these words are: "the dishonest BFA"; "dishonestly and deceitfully." Funny how the opinion piece you linked also didn't attack anyone's character.

You are a clownish caricature of yourself.
 
I think the assumption about schools messing with GPA or the curve would be that it benefits college prep schools to have more kids in better colleges. If inflating grades achieves that goal there is incentive for them to do that.

Going test optional is all well and good for that 4 years of your life. Society is not dropping tests however. The goal of school should be to help prepare you for the rest of your life. It does benefit people to know how to take tests well. I would argue that those 60 hours actually aren't all that poorly spent. If the test prep is such a variance in social economic groups maybe the government should work on grants for kids who cant afford these classes.
My daughter is applying to colleges this coming Fall. We live in TX and she is applying to UT and some other flagship schools (UGA, UF, Wisc). I haven’t looked at Florida or wisc yet, but both UT and UGA weigh class rank heavier than GPA (and both are SAT optional for Fall ‘22 enroll). Right now my daughter is 50-75% honors AP and has an equivalent 3.9 GPA (they do it on a 100 point scale here). Yet she is ranked 45% in her class of 400.
This may be how schools are combatting grade inflation. “Don’t matter what your GPA is. Only how you did compared to your classmates”🤷‍♂️
 
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My daughter is applying to colleges this coming Fall. We live in TX and she applying to UT and some other flagship schools (UGA, UF, Wisc). I haven’t looked at Florida or wisc yet, but both UT and UGA weigh class rank heavier than GPA (and both are SAT optional for Fall ‘22 enroll). Right now my daughter is 50-75% honors AP and has an equivalent 3.9 GPA (they do it on a 100 point scale here). Yet she is ranked 45% on her class of 400.
This may be how schools are combatting grade inflation. “Don’t matter what your GPA is. Only how you did compared to your classmates”🤷‍♂️
Wait, you're daughter had a 3.9 and that puts her at the 45% mark?!? What the heck?
 
That was me in high school. Most nights I did no homework, and my grades reflected that. I didn't really try until senior year. Without my SAT/ACT scores, I never would have gotten into CU engineering. I did well once I got in though.
My grades in high school reflected that attendance and busywork were a huge chunk. I blew off stuff that wasted my time, so my grades suffered. The system is designed that way so that students of average or lower intelligence can succeed or at least graduate without mastering the material. I check out if not challenged.

I had very high test scores. Once I was put into a college environment where my grade was based on a couple tests or papers a semester to show mastery of material, I got great grades.
 
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