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Mel Tucker leaves CU for Michigan State

GawainBuff said:
I’m sorry, keeping your word, doing what you said you’d do, what people relied upon you to do is not “impossible” in light of an unexpected offer of big money.

If it is “impossible to refuse” the big offer looming out there, then your commitment to anyone, your word, your character is meaningless. What if Giselle decided I was far more fun to be with than her stodgy QB husband? My wife should plan on dinners alone from now on?

And there are plenty of examples of people with the character to turn down huge pay days or enticing offers because they already made a commitment, even had what they needed (though fewer these days, it seems): e.g., Billy Beane, turned down an offer to be the highest paid executive in sports to stay with the A’s and fight the good fight, for one.

And let’s talk about that extra money, over and above the $14+ million contract five year he already had for keeping his word, being who he told kids he was.... Once he owns a really great house in Boulder, say $2 million. How much gold-leaf will his family have to burn through in their lives to tap out that bank account before paying for his kid’s college and leaving a massing estate behind? What horrible investment plan is he setting up? What freakn’ Robin Leach-ass lifestyle is so essential for the rest of their lives, that sacrificing his character, honesty, and integrity is “impossible to refuse”?

And who thinks that kids who are left huge fortunes by their parents end up as great successes themselves? Huge pots of money are not the end-all, be-all of “taking care of your family.”

It’s not impossible to live your life by your word AND take great care of your family AND not screw people over and lie to them when a big bag of money lands in your path.

When did this idea that enough money can justify any action become part of the American idiom?

It’s not like his family was on the street, living hand to mouth, starving; and someone came up and said, “Hey, why don’t you ass-mule these drugs to Panama, and I’ll set your family up for life.” Who knows, maybe there’s an ethical argument as to it being impossible not to choose ass-muling in that case.

But, he had a $14 million dollar contract already! And he would keep it, enjoy it, maybe expand it as a fairly young coach; all for keeping his word, being a the man of character he claimed to be.

How have we created a system where that is deemed “impossible”?
Click to expand...
MT got $18 million more than what he would get at Colorado and an AC budget in the company of playoff teams.

As Chris Rock stated, people are only as faithful as their options. Your GB example doesn’t apply. Your wife is safe.
 
CU is currently ranked higher than the teams listed below. wHaT hAvE yOu dOnE fOr mE LaTeLy?

NCAA appearances since Tad was hired (9 years) - P6 (including the Big East - 71 teams):
9:
Michigan State
North Carolina

8:
Michigan
Wisconsin

7:
Arizona
Florida
Iowa State
Kansas State
Ohio State
Purdue
Syracuse
Virginia

6:
Notre Dame
Oklahoma
Oregon
Texas
UCLA

5:
Marquette
Minnesota
Providence
Xavier

4:
Butler
Georgetown
Indiana
Iowa
Miami
Missouri
NC State
Oklahoma State
Pittsburgh
Tennessee
Vanderbilt

3:
Arizona State
Arkansas
California
Creighton
St. John's
Texas A&M
Texas Tech
USC
Virginia Tech

2:
Alabama
Clemson
Georgia
Illinois
LSU
Utah
Washington

1:
Mississippi State
****braska
North Carolina State
Northwestern
Ole Miss
Oregon State
South Carolina
Stanford
TCU
Wake Forest

29 have made more appearances than CU. 42 the same or less.
 
manhattanbuf said:
I think MT’s agent put MSU together for a grand slam deal - likely one better than what Fickell got because he capitalized on their desperation.

Let’s assume he got the same offer MT agreed to take. There’s no way that Fickell can be labeled as ambitious because he declined a legitimate opportunity to compete for a playoff berth/championship to stay at a G5 program.
Click to expand...
Or he is being patient and waiting for the right opportunity.

I don't blame Tucker taking the money, but to say EVERYONE will take the money regardless of the timing, environment and vision is simply wrong. Smart people leave some sort of money on the table without touching it. It happens all the time.
 
GawainBuff said:
I’m sorry, keeping your word, doing what you said you’d do, what people relied upon you to do is not “impossible” in light of an unexpected offer of big money.

If it is “impossible to refuse” the big offer looming out there, then your commitment to anyone, your word, your character is meaningless. What if Giselle decided I was far more fun to be with than her stodgy QB husband? My wife should plan on dinners alone from now on?

And there are plenty of examples of people with the character to turn down huge pay days or enticing offers because they already made a commitment, even had what they needed (though fewer these days, it seems): e.g., Billy Beane, turned down an offer to be the highest paid executive in sports to stay with the A’s and fight the good fight, for one.

And let’s talk about that extra money, over and above the $14+ million contract five year he already had for keeping his word, being who he told kids he was.... Once he owns a really great house in Boulder, say $2 million. How much gold-leaf will his family have to burn through in their lives to tap out that bank account before paying for his kid’s college and leaving a massing estate behind? What horrible investment plan is he setting up? What freakn’ Robin Leach-ass lifestyle is so essential for the rest of their lives, that sacrificing his character, honesty, and integrity is “impossible to refuse”?

And who thinks that kids who are left huge fortunes by their parents end up as great successes themselves? Huge pots of money are not the end-all, be-all of “taking care of your family.”

It’s not impossible to live your life by your word AND take great care of your family AND not screw people over and lie to them when a big bag of money lands in your path.

When did this idea that enough money can justify any action become part of the American idiom?

It’s not like his family was on the street, living hand to mouth, starving; and someone came up and said, “Hey, why don’t you ass-mule these drugs to Panama, and I’ll set your family up for life.” Who knows, maybe there’s an ethical argument as to it being impossible not to choose ass-muling in that case.

But, he had a $14 million dollar contract already! And he would keep it, enjoy it, maybe expand it as a fairly young coach; all for keeping his word, being a the man of character he claimed to be.

How have we created a system where that is deemed “impossible”?
Click to expand...
I agree with your stance in general, but I think your skewing the narrative excessively. Coaches get screwed over by schools too (remember Barnett being promised an extension by Bohn only to get canned after being blownout in the B12 Conference game?). It's part of the business. We're talking about a football coach leaving a school. Not someone cheating on their wife, or becoming a traitor against their country. Football is a game, but has also become a big business (for everyone involved). The players he recruited still have scholarships to a great university. How have they been harmed other than their feelings? These relationships are the largest of MT's concerns relative to CU...it is a real concern. Trust me, the kids and families will get over it. I wouldn't have left CU, but totally understand why he would for that amount of money.
 
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cnbuff410 said:
Or he is being patient and waiting for the right opportunity.

I don't blame Tucker taking the money, but to say EVERYONE will take the money regardless of the timing, environment and vision is simply wrong. Smart people leave some sort of money on the table without touching it. It happens all the time.
Click to expand...
You cannot name the people who turn down boat loads of money all of the time. Fickell isn’t ambitious. That’s fine. He may not get an opportunity that good ever again. Waiting is not helpful for ambitious people.
 
Buffarino said:
Lulz. Tad is hands down the best coach CU has ever seen (at least in my lifetime) and it's not even close. I forgot about you hating Tad. Should have used another person. How about Luke Fickell? Why did he say no to the offer that MT had to say yes to?
Click to expand...
Don’t play his game. If your opinion doesn’t match Manhattan’s he just argues with you and starts calling you dumb. It’s a lot of fun.
 
manhattanbuf said:
Name the names of the people who turn down eight figure raises “all the time.”
Click to expand...
I will just use some examples from NBA.

People reduce their paycheck to fight for right things. Can be loyalty (Dirk), can be better environment (Durant), can be championship dream (too many examples).

Probably not the best examples, but turning down the raise or leaving money on the table happens all the time.
 
Darth Snow said:
Stolen from Rward at 247. This is Just the P6, so the % is skewed but I think it's fair to compare CU to this group. If you wanted to expand it to all 360 teams, I think 25% would be way in the rearview mirror.

NCAA appearances since Tad was hired (9 years) - P6 (including the Big East - 71 teams):
9:
Duke
Kansas
Michigan State
North Carolina

8:
Kentucky
Michigan
Villanova
Wisconsin

7:
Arizona
Florida
Iowa State
Kansas State
Ohio State
Purdue
Syracuse
Virginia

6:
Baylor
Louisville
Notre Dame
Oklahoma
Oregon
Texas
UCLA
West Virginia

5:
Florida State
Marquette
Minnesota
Providence
Xavier

4:
Butler
Colorado
Georgetown
Indiana
Iowa
Maryland
Miami
Missouri
NC State
Oklahoma State
Pittsburgh
Seton Hall
Tennessee
Vanderbilt

3:
Arizona State
Arkansas
California
Creighton
St. John's
Texas A&M
Texas Tech
USC
Virginia Tech

2:
Alabama
Auburn
Clemson
Georgia
Illinois
LSU
Utah
Washington

1:
Mississippi State
****braska
North Carolina State
Northwestern
Ole Miss
Oregon State
Penn State
South Carolina
Stanford
TCU
Wake Forest

29 have made more appearances than CU. 42 the same or less.
Click to expand...

*fewer
 
cnbuff410 said:
I will just use some examples from NBA.

People reduce their paycheck to fight for right things. Can be loyalty (Dirk), can be better environment (Durant), can be championship dream (too many examples).

Probably not the best examples, but turning down the raise or leaving money on the table happens all the time.
Click to expand...
If it happened all of the time, I feel like you wouldn’t be hard pressed to think of good examples. Right now, you’ve named NBA players who make insane money.
 
manhattanbuf said:
Past performance is cool for nostalgia, but it is the past. It is dead. I don’t care that Tad Boyle was a good coach in 2012. I care about this year. Even if I say let’s give him some rope for a few years, it’s been three straight years of sub standard performance.

I get it: this is his strategy. He wanted Colorado to get old and make a run after several years out of the picture. I don’t think that’s good enough. Many folks here disagree. I am ok with that.
Click to expand...
They are in first place in the P12 right now. 16th in the nation. That's not good enough for you?
 
manhattanbuf said:
Name the names of the people who turn down eight figure raises “all the time.”
Click to expand...
And you are just manipulating the data to support your opinion. Eight figure money means different things to different people. Percentage based number makes much more sense here. Why would a billionaire care about a eight figure raise?

CU planed to raise his salary. It's definitely not a match, but we are probably talking about 25-30% raise if you compare the final number between two parties.

So yes, people turn down 25-30% raise for right value all the time.

And you are probably confused between money driven and ambitious. That's two completely different thing. In fact, if you are truly ambitious, you have every reason to make your decision based on other things instead of pay raise.
 
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