Official 2016 Coaching Carousel

[The Alabaster Yak]

Penn State never had a losing season.

Insert the "CU is a unique situation" argument blah blah blah.

Uhhh they were definitely different situations. One had the entire city in an uproar, every media member calling for the death of the program, and SELF-IMPOSED sanctions. The other had candlelight vigils, outspoken support for a monster of a head coach, and a spineless NCAA that dropped the sanctions 2 years after the fact. Penn State can **** off and die and I take extreme exception for even comparing the two.

 

[J.R. Ewing]

Bohn sucked

 

[sackman]

There were people at CU calling the 9/11 victims little Eichmans too...the number of people holding a viewpoint is relevant. I do not remember anybody but the lunatic fringe led by D'Annabelle and her ilk having that opinion...

I'll share with you a conversation I had with the then academic liaison to the athletic department: it was Embrees second year at the kickoff luncheon. This guy was a professor in the physics department IIRC. He tells me with a straight face that it's more important to avoid scandal than it is to win games. This was the guy who was supposed to be the AD's proponent with the rest of the school. He made no bones about it, he really didn't care if CU won or lost as long as they didn't end up in the papers for a scandal.
That's the environment Bohn operated in. when a guy is set up to fail, why do we act surprised when it happens?

 

[Duff Man]

I doubt MM would have been nearly as successful under Mike Bohn.

 

[J.R. Ewing]

I'll share with you a conversation I had with the then academic liaison to the athletic department: it was Embrees second year at the kickoff luncheon. This guy was a professor in the physics department IIRC. He tells me with a straight face that it's more important to avoid scandal than it is to win games. This was the guy who was supposed to be the AD's proponent with the rest of the school. He made no bones about it, he really didn't care if CU won or lost as long as they didn't end up in the papers for a scandal.
That's the environment Bohn operated in. when a guy is set up to fail, why do we act surprised when it happens?

Same environment RG is working in and he's kicking ass and taking names.

 

[MtnBuff]

There were people at this University who were openly calling for the football program to be dismantled. That's the situation Mike Bohn walked in to. Debate that.

Lots of very short memories around here.

I sometimes wonder how much actual authority MB had here. My impression is that he was hired to carry out the agenda he was given by those above him, specifically Dr. Phil.

The decision to keep Hawkins, wasn't Bohn's, he was overridden when he wanted to fire him. The decision to hire Embree, Bohn was told to hire him instead of looking to see who might be available. which wouldn't have been much considering that the budget provided was also determined from above.

Bohn was not a good AD for CU and he doesn't seem to be much better in his current job but I don't blame him for doing what he was hired to do.

 

[sackman]

Same environment RG is working in

 

[slider]

Same President and Chancellor

 

[MtnBuff]

Same environment RG is working in and he's kicking ass and taking names.

Benson has now decided that it is time for athletics to be a positive publicity component of the university. Before he was focused on the Med Center. Completely different environment.

 

[Duff Man]

Benson has now decided that it is time for athletics to be a positive publicity component of the university. Before he was focused on the Med Center. Completely different environment.

You could have given Mike Bohn all the support in the world and he would find a way to squander it (see: Butch Jones).

 

[sackman]

You could have given Mike Bohn all the support in the world and he would find a way to squander it (see: Butch Jones).

That may be true. It might not be. Fact is he didn't get any support and was still able to accomplish a few good things while sailing into a stiff headwind.

 

[leftybuff]

I'll share with you a conversation I had with the then academic liaison to the athletic department: it was Embrees second year at the kickoff luncheon. This guy was a professor in the physics department IIRC. He tells me with a straight face that it's more important to avoid scandal than it is to win games. This was the guy who was supposed to be the AD's proponent with the rest of the school. He made no bones about it, he really didn't care if CU won or lost as long as they didn't end up in the papers for a scandal.
That's the environment Bohn operated in. when a guy is set up to fail, why do we act surprised when it happens?

Granted, but that doesn't sound like get rid of the program to me, with all due respect.

 

[Duff Man]

That may be true. It might not be. Fact is he didn't get any support and was still able to accomplish a few good things while sailing into a stiff headwind.

What's not true about him completely botching the Butch Jones hiring? He got a chance to hire a third coach with a significant budget increase for the staff and managed to embarrass CU.

 

[sackman]

Granted, but that doesn't sound like get rid of the program to me, with all due respect.

There's one iron clad way to ensure your football program never has a scandal - No football program.

 

[sackman]

What's not true about him completely botching the Butch Jones hiring? He got a chance to hire a third coach with a significant budget increase for the staff and managed to embarrass CU.

What's not true is whether he would have botched everything after being given support. Yes, the Butch Jones fiasco was botched horribly. Bohn deserves much of the blame for that. Butch Jones also must assume some responsibllility for that as well. What kind of asshole demands you follow him around with a food cart to keep his picture from being taken?
We ended up hiring a better coach anyway. By accident? Perhaps. But that's the reality.

 

[MtnBuff]

You could have given Mike Bohn all the support in the world and he would find a way to squander it (see: Butch Jones).

I never said he was a good AD, only that he did what he was hired to do. We have yet to see him do the things that would indicate he is a good AD but I don't blame him for our problems.

 

[Duff Man]

What's not true is whether he would have botched everything after being given support. Yes, the Butch Jones fiasco was botched horribly. Bohn deserves much of the blame for that. Butch Jones also must assume some responsibllility for that as well. What kind of asshole demands you follow him around with a food cart to keep his picture from being taken?
We ended up hiring a better coach anyway. By accident? Perhaps. But that's the reality.

Perhaps by accident? How about ENTIRELY by accident.

And Jones is an asshole, but most coaching candidates do not want to have a coaching search play out in the open. So glad RG understands that "closing the ranks" is necessary at times.

 

[leftybuff]

There's one iron clad way to ensure your football program never has a scandal - No football program.

But that isn't what he said by your report...that's all I am saying. Only the lunatic fringe was in favor of getting rid of FB by my memory, and they were never even a significant minority.

 

[sackman]

But that isn't what he said by your report...that's all I am saying. Only the lunatic fringe was in favor of getting rid of FB by my memory, and they were never even a significant minority.

Fair enough. I'd counter by saying there is a very fine line between the group that wants to get rid of the program and the group that really doesn't care if the program is there or not.

 

[Big Jim]

Fair enough. I'd counter by saying there is a very fine line between the group that wants to get rid of the program and the group that really doesn't care if the program is there or not.

Well, putting it that way, Bohn walks on water.

 

[sackman]

Honestly, I'd love it if Bohn wasn't such a divisive character. I can freely admit RG is a huge upgrade while acknowledging Bohn's successes. Why is it so hard to admit the guy was halfway decent? He was OK. Not great, but certainly not the destroyer of football that he's made out to be by some.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

Well many people speculate Bohn wasn't even the one who hired McIntyre, it was actually Benson after Bohn botched the Butch Jones situation. So then you are saying that Bohn hiring one good coach out of Hawkins, Embree and Boyle is something to brag about?

Actually, it was Rick George that hired those guys. And Chiv and Leavitt too. You must be blind not to see that. Surely someone as inept as Mike Bohn could never pull something off like that on his own!

You guys crack me up. Bruce Benson moved the Presidents office from Boulder to Denver because he couldnt be bothered to drive up 36 every day. Someone like Benson generally got where he is in life by surrounding himself with good managers that were empowered to do their job. He likely had nothing to do with any of Bohns hires other questioning the payroll number.

As for Hawkins, we hired the coach that Notre Dame was also interested in.
As for Embree, we lost two years of conference revenue for Bohn getting us into the Pac12. Money was tight.
As for Jones, Bohn likely got played by his agent to force Tenn's hand.
As for Boyle, dont forget Bohn hired Bzeldik before him as well.
As for Bohn, he likely got fired for not meeting Bensons time lines or fund raising for the IPF and Champions Center.

Its not like the guy was all bad.

 

[MtnBuff]

Honestly, I'd love it if Bohn wasn't such a divisive character. I can freely admit RG is a huge upgrade while acknowledging Bohn's successes. Why is it so hard to admit the guy was halfway decent? He was OK. Not great, but certainly not the destroyer of football that he's made out to be by some.

Bohn would probably be a very good guy to have around working as an assistant AD under a guy like RG. He isn't going be your visionary or you dynamic leader who moves a program forward. He is very good though at executing the agenda he is given in a professional way.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

Does anyone believe that this is the type of thing that can be quantified accurately on how different candidates rank on various factors of success, what those factors are, how relatively important those factors are, and how all of this applies to the specific situation at a particular college?

As the adage goes, "garbage in, garbage out".

Luke Fickell may be a good hire. He may not be. Really good assistant at Ohio State. One year as interim HC in which he managed to go 6-7 at Ohio State. The 6 seasons before Fickell? All 10-12 wins. The 4 seasons after Fickell? All 12-14 wins (with this year 11 and counting).

I'd be curious what they are measuring. But there is most certainly a money ball type application that could be applied. I would say you could start with something like all the players he targeted in recruiting thru all his years as a coach. Then track those players along a collegiate (and pro if you want) career path. Even the ones that didnt chose Fickell (or couldnt get in) and instead went somewhere else. Did they contribute? Did they eventually start? Did they make the pros? At that point you have some quantitative information on his value at identifying and recruiting talent.

You could build a similar data set on his position and if the unit improved, degraded, or stayed the same after he came in. Over a lifespan at the position. Thats much easier though because the stats are easy to obtain.

I doubt they ran it 100,000 times unless they had several thousand data points and changed just one of them on every run to see if it impacted the results. I guess they could have run a comparison against a similar file for 10 different candidates that each had 1000 or 10000 data points.

 

[Jens1893]

Alabama has hired Sark as OC

 

[dyemeduke]

I'll share with you a conversation I had with the then academic liaison to the athletic department: it was Embrees second year at the kickoff luncheon. This guy was a professor in the physics department IIRC. He tells me with a straight face that it's more important to avoid scandal than it is to win games. This was the guy who was supposed to be the AD's proponent with the rest of the school. He made no bones about it, he really didn't care if CU won or lost as long as they didn't end up in the papers for a scandal.
That's the environment Bohn operated in. when a guy is set up to fail, why do we act surprised when it happens?

For some years under Bohn, the AD liaison with the faculty was Dave Clough of the ChemE department, and from having had him while at CU, I can tell you he definitely cared that CU won. Many professors I had cared about CU sports. Were they the minority? Sure, and what's wrong with that? They should be focused on teaching, research and grants. I think you paint a much bleaker picture of the environment Bohn operated in than what was.

Actually, it was Rick George that hired those guys. And Chiv and Leavitt too. You must be blind not to see that. Surely someone as inept as Mike Bohn could never pull something off like that on his own!

You guys crack me up. Bruce Benson moved the Presidents office from Boulder to Denver because he couldnt be bothered to drive up 36 every day. Someone like Benson generally got where he is in life by surrounding himself with good managers that were empowered to do their job. He likely had nothing to do with any of Bohns hires other questioning the payroll number.

As for Hawkins, we hired the coach that Notre Dame was also interested in.
As for Embree, we lost two years of conference revenue for Bohn getting us into the Pac12. Money was tight.
As for Jones, Bohn likely got played by his agent to force Tenn's hand.
As for Boyle, dont forget Bohn hired Bzeldik before him as well.
As for Bohn, he likely got fired for not meeting Bensons time lines or fund raising for the IPF and Champions Center.

Its not like the guy was all bad.

Hawkins - sure, understandable hire. If you all remember though, when we hired Hawk, Boise St fans were more than fine...some were even happy. There are various rumors I've heard that somewhat put Bohn in a better light in terms of the Hawk hire, but they're unsubstantiated rumors. And none of them really absolve Bohn. The hire at the time may have seen fine, but the results are what they are. It was a great mistake, and that's how it should be judged. It wasn't a mistake that couldn't be avoided.

Embrace - sure, money was tight, but that does not excuse Bohn from bending to the pressures of alumni to hire someone that was vastly underprepared for the job. That was not a good hire at the time, and a complete disaster after the fact. Bohn should get tons of fault for Embree.

Jones - pure conjecture on your part, but fair and plausible...but that's your job as an AD or GM or any high up position like this - negotiate against other competition. The fact that the numbers of our offer to Jones is what really annoyed me.

Boyle/Bzdelik - I liked Bz and love Boyle, but I still do criticize Bohn's hiring practices of I25 hires. It's like he didn't know how to do a national search, and when he did, he failed - ala Hawk and KMac. We also should remember how he screwed up the last year of Patton's tenure...RP should have been fired earlier instead of the lame duck disaster we suffered through. Fair though - Bohn should get credit for these hires, butt he credit is less in my eyes. I feel like he backed into them bc their proximity.

Bohn's an idiot... ... ...I do NOT see how the job he did can be viewed in a good light. Perhaps those of you that think so are more in tune with the AD than I am due to your donor status... ...but I think Bohn's a moron.

 

[BuffNut99]

Bohn would probably be a very good guy to have around working as an assistant AD under a guy like RG. He isn't going be your visionary or you dynamic leader who moves a program forward. He is very good though at executing the agenda he is given in a professional and an excessively loud way.

fify

 

[MiamiBuffs]

For some years under Bohn, the AD liaison with the faculty was Dave Clough of the ChemE department, and from having had him while at CU, I can tell you he definitely cared that CU won. Many professors I had cared about CU sports. Were they the minority? Sure, and what's wrong with that? They should be focused on teaching, research and grants. I think you paint a much bleaker picture of the environment Bohn operated in than what was.



Hawkins - sure, understandable hire. If you all remember though, when we hired Hawk, Boise St fans were more than fine...some were even happy. There are various rumors I've heard that somewhat put Bohn in a better light in terms of the Hawk hire, but they're unsubstantiated rumors. And none of them really absolve Bohn. The hire at the time may have seen fine, but the results are what they are. It was a great mistake, and that's how it should be judged. It wasn't a mistake that couldn't be avoided.

Embrace - sure, money was tight, but that does not excuse Bohn from bending to the pressures of alumni to hire someone that was vastly underprepared for the job. That was not a good hire at the time, and a complete disaster after the fact. Bohn should get tons of fault for Embree.

Jones - pure conjecture on your part, but fair and plausible...but that's your job as an AD or GM or any high up position like this - negotiate against other competition. The fact that the numbers of our offer to Jones is what really annoyed me.

Boyle/Bzdelik - I liked Bz and love Boyle, but I still do criticize Bohn's hiring practices of I25 hires. It's like he didn't know how to do a national search, and when he did, he failed - ala Hawk and KMac. We also should remember how he screwed up the last year of Patton's tenure...RP should have been fired earlier instead of the lame duck disaster we suffered through. Fair though - Bohn should get credit for these hires, butt he credit is less in my eyes. I feel like he backed into them bc their proximity.

Bohn's an idiot... ... ...I do NOT see how the job he did can be viewed in a good light. Perhaps those of you that think so are more in tune with the AD than I am due to your donor status... ...but I think Bohn's a moron.

I forgot the bungled Sanchez hire too. Shame we made the NCAAs this year.

Meanwhile RG has hired I-25 coach Jesse Mahoney from DU who is 6-14/.300 in conference this year. JR Payne does seem to be authentic however

 

[Buffnik]

Major coup and total steal for Rutgers if his health holds up and the OC role works better for him. Great, great coach.

 

[SerenityBuff]