When? When they had a first rate staff.
Not sure how you cannot open yourself up to the fact that USC is easier to win at vs PSU, and that recent history is really not indicative of ****.
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Official 2019/20 CFB Coaching Carousel
- Thread starter onealcd
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Not sure how you cannot open yourself up to the fact that USC is easier to win at vs PSU, and that recent history is really not indicative of ****.
There are two people on this board who think PSU is a better job than USC, so not really.
SINKRATZ
PhD in Analogy
When was Penn State’s last relevant season before Franklin? Or Alabama’s before Saban? Or Clemson’s before Swinney?
You’re assuming it’s some fundamental flaw with USC holding them back and what people here are saying is that they are just a good coach away from being a force in college football again - coaches like Franklin don’t strike me as wanting to find a safe, comfortable spot to win 9-10 games and make a Citrus Bowl appearance every year.
The reclamation project of USC is the only slam dunk in CFB.
What a weird debate.
USC has better access to recruits and can recruit at a higher level, even in their 10 years of misery. So yes it is absolutely an advantage when comparing the two jobs. Now to be fair to PSU, USC has this advantage on 99% of schools but that is what makes it such a good job.
Hey, time will tell us who was right. But USC has had one great season in 12 years and people are questioning why I think Franklin should stay put?
The list of schools that simply need an above average coach (and a competent AD/admin) to be competing for championships year in and year out has about 4 schools on it.
USC is one of them. Pedo State is not.
The list of schools where you need a pretty good coach to compete for championships is a bit longer. Pedo State is probably on that list.
The list of schools where you need an exceptional coach to reach that level takes in most of the rest of the P5.
Edit: for a long time, CU was in the second category - now we're squarely in the third.
USC is one of them. Pedo State is not.
The list of schools where you need a pretty good coach to compete for championships is a bit longer. Pedo State is probably on that list.
The list of schools where you need an exceptional coach to reach that level takes in most of the rest of the P5.
Edit: for a long time, CU was in the second category - now we're squarely in the third.
How many big 10 championships does Penn have in that stretch? How many p12 champs does USC have?
USC has more 10 win seasons in the last 12 years than Penn State, including two head to head wins the only two times Penn State won their conference (one by a Clay Helton coached team).
somebody
Well-Known Member
It's fun watching 2 guys getting shut down but not having the comprehension to realize it. PdSU higher ranked now so a better job. Equal access to recruits. List bad seasons to prove what, exactly, when the whole point is that USC only dominates with a great coach. Rofl
Which is the better program right now? Which can’t even hire a decent AD or coach?
USC is the better job. Penn State is the better run program and is maximizing its potential right now.
Sark and Helton...that is why.
Right. So again, why would Franklin leave? That’s the crux of the debate.
to get a better job. That's the easy answer to this debate.
SINKRATZ
PhD in Analogy
Holy s**t, this guy.
To win bigger.
I guess it just comes down to you guys believing Franklin can walk in and flip a switch and all of a sudden USC is in the CFB playoffs. I don’t see that. I believe the issues run deeper and it’ll be a longer road back for them.
SINKRATZ
PhD in Analogy
By that logic, why did he leave Vanderbilt for PSU?
They are one, maybe 2 classes from being playoff contenders. They have that much talent.
At the end of the day, it’s a subjective call. It’s all a matter of opinion as to what is important. I have no idea what is important to Franklin. If I were him, I would have a hard time leaving a very good situation at Penn State for any school, much less a school that’s in disarray like USC is.
ahoelsken
Well-Known Member
Difference between James Franklin and say a pre-extension PJ Fleck (I don't think USC was interested in him for the record, but I think FSU was) at Minnesota. If USC calls Fleck before the other day, he's probably open to them. Minnesota's a lot like this program is-you should be going to bowls consistently there, but this year (even if they lose out) has been a HUGE success for them. Paterno (let's forget about Sandusky) won there, Bill O'Brien took that gig and went 8-4 2 years in a row after post Sandusky. You can win championships at Penn State.
I never said you can't win championships at Penn State. I said USC is a better job.
I was skeptical of Fleck, but the Minnesota program he took over wasn't in great shape. The turn around has been really impressive.
SINKRATZ
PhD in Analogy
Can you though? Not saying it’s impossible but Colorado has won a natty more recently than Penn State and their last title was before joining the Big10.
The ceiling at USC is a little higher but the ceiling at Pedo State is plenty high. Both schools are places where national championships are reasonable to shoot for.
SC has a huge edge in that it is in a media capital, Win at SC and a coach can become a star, can be on all the national programs, hang with the shiny people and make a lot of endorsement money. Because of this it is also a ticket to bigger things including but not limited to the NFL. Once built to that level it should also be easier to sustain the success because of both the local talent pool, many of whom have SC as their dream school, but also the ability to recruit nationally easier than almost any other school.
The bad side of SC is related to some of these same things. Once a coach wins the expectations are often elevated even more, sometimes to unrealistic levels. There are a bunch of money people involved who also want credit when things are going good and who want to put their two cents into everything. This can make the situation somewhat unstable.
For a guy like Franklin the advantages may not be worth the trouble. At Pedo State if he wins he pretty much gets to run his own show. He makes the decisions and the fans will love him. They are more patient if he has a couple of down years as long as he gives them reason to hope and expect future success. The job doesn't have the star potential of being in LA but it also doesn't have all that media pressure.
Two very different jobs, which is best depends on perspective. Would John Robinson or Pete Carroll have been happy at Penn State? Probably not but JoPa also wouldn't have been near as happy at SC as he was in Happy Valley.
SC has a huge edge in that it is in a media capital, Win at SC and a coach can become a star, can be on all the national programs, hang with the shiny people and make a lot of endorsement money. Because of this it is also a ticket to bigger things including but not limited to the NFL. Once built to that level it should also be easier to sustain the success because of both the local talent pool, many of whom have SC as their dream school, but also the ability to recruit nationally easier than almost any other school.
The bad side of SC is related to some of these same things. Once a coach wins the expectations are often elevated even more, sometimes to unrealistic levels. There are a bunch of money people involved who also want credit when things are going good and who want to put their two cents into everything. This can make the situation somewhat unstable.
For a guy like Franklin the advantages may not be worth the trouble. At Pedo State if he wins he pretty much gets to run his own show. He makes the decisions and the fans will love him. They are more patient if he has a couple of down years as long as he gives them reason to hope and expect future success. The job doesn't have the star potential of being in LA but it also doesn't have all that media pressure.
Two very different jobs, which is best depends on perspective. Would John Robinson or Pete Carroll have been happy at Penn State? Probably not but JoPa also wouldn't have been near as happy at SC as he was in Happy Valley.
ahoelsken
Well-Known Member
Historically? Yes. Right now? No.
Doesn't the fact that they're fourth in these rankings tell you you can? If that doesn't, Franklin's been to two NY6 bowls in the last three seasons there. You can win a title there. He's a win in Columbus (even if they lose Saturday) and a B1G title win away from a CFP appearance.
Couldn't agree with you more-he's goofy AF, but he can flat out coach ball and (from what I know) does it the right way.
I've yet to see any support for this. Recruiting/Tradition/location is all currently (and has always been) better at USC. The fan base is better, and worse, at PSU.
Everyone has good runs. CU was better than USC for a number of years on the field. That doesn't make us a better job.
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